Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia

Regardless of race, ethnicity, culture...humans in general, for the sake of their own welfare or interests, will always try to get the better of their fellow humans. This has been occurring since the dawn of recorded history.

And in the world's current state, one unfortunate truth is quite clear:


Humans do not care about their fellow humans.


Put it another way - Humanity itself has become an insatiable species of selfish opportunists.


So if and when a human decides that violence is in their best interests for status, wealth or any other motivator, then they will use such violence against those they see as targets.

This Is The Reality.

And when one truly grasps this reality, they will realize and appreciate that the only defence IS the preparedness to engage such aggressiveness with an equal or greater amount of Defensive Violence.

Also, realize this; the Law (as corrupted as it has been showing itself to be as of late) is REACTIVE, not PROACTIVE. If one chooses to hold their complete safety in the shadow of the Law, then they themselves become reactive, placing their safety in the hopes of a speedy defence by organizations NOT designed to provide such services.

But those who chose to be Proactive - providing themselves an adequate means to defend against such intended violence - will have given themselves the invaluable means to dramatically offset the aggressors intentions.

In other words... until every human on the planet sincerely calls one another brother and sister, purchase and train yourself in a firearm. Or firearms.

Because the Law isn't interested in your survival. Nor the Government. They can't be.

They weren't designed to be.


Think about it.


However... YOU can be. So make sure you ARE.

Originally posted by mal1970

Myth: Countries with strict gun control have less crime

Fact: Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries.

Comparing crime figures between countries is a meaningless and worthless endeavour, for a number of reasons:

1. What constitutes a crime, and the definition of that crime, often varies greatly between jurisdictions. Sweden, for example, has a high rate of reported rapes, but, as we found out with the Julian Assange situation, Sweden has a far broader legal definition of rape than most other countries.

2. The way crime figures are compiled and collated differs between countries.

3. The number of reported crimes does not necessarily correlate with the number of crimes which are committed. The level of trust and confidence in a nation's police force and legal system will affect the likelihood of a crime being reported.

4. The level of social advancement and victim support will also influence the number of historically ''taboo'' crimes which are reported. Britain, and other more socially advanced Northern European nations, have far more progressive attitudes towards sexual offences and domestic violence, and, consequently, people will be more likely to report these incidents because there's less of a stigma attached to them. Whereas, in somewhere like the Deep South of the USA, they are probably more likely to blame the victim for these crimes, so many of these offences will be left unreported.

reply to post by links234

In 2007 the population of the US was 301 million, in Australia the population was 21 million. That's 14 times less than the US.

Overall, you're safer in Australia than you are in the United States.

Ummm, excuse me. Most of your crime figures were about "10 times less" for Australia... so if the population is 14 times smaller in Australia that would indicate that the density of crime committed with respect to the amount of people in Australia is about the same or even a bit higher than the United States.

Originally posted by WorkingClassMan
Secondly let me say that video was a load of sensationalist CRAP.

Hi WorkingClassMan.

I agree the video has a bit of sensationalism, but I don't agree with your conclusions exactly.

Australians are not disarmed just restricted, you don't need an AK for home protection

As you noted yourself, defense is not a valid reason to have a gun license in any state in Australia as far as I'm aware. That is the very definition of a disarmed state.

This:

We can't own them for purposes such as home defense/fighting the gov

Is a big part of the issue. The noose is also getting tighter.

WE ARE NOT LIVING IN FEAR, what a crock fencing ourselves in & installing high tech security lol lol & lol.

Depends what suburb you live in. My suburb has barbed wire roofing etc ... and various other issues.

The biggest thing that video forgot to mention while stating the rise in crime figures, is this is not the same country it was 10/20 years ago.

I think that's the video's point? That it isn't because of guns that the crime rate is going up. Your points seem to support this?

If anything the rise in burglars could be directly attributed to the lack of a chance of being shot in the face. Home invasions are quite common in Australia.

We do have to complete a full day course both theory & practical before applying for a license.

Depends on your state actually. I've never completed such a course in WA for example. The exams are also incredibly easy to complete including quesitons that basically ask if you should point a gun at your own face.

Not like anyone is coming to check under your pillow at 2am though so if you have half a brain you will have a cover story good to go & not fill out home defense as your reason to own 1 on your application form, if your not that smart then your not smart enough to do that you are not smart enough to own a gun.

You shouldn't have to lie to the government to own a firearm, and tax payers shouldn't be paying to support that lie.

This just seems to be a classic case of 1984 'freedom is slavery'. Lying to get a gun license is not a good position to be in. Illegally placing it under your pillow and developing a cover story in case the police notice isn't a good situation either. Especially since I've seen and heard of gun owners losing their license for 10 years over behaviour that isn't quite as irresponsible as sleeping with a loaded weapon. (ie leaving a shell casing in their gun safe)

If you're lying to defend your home now imagine what state gun laws will be in 5 or 10 years?

I won't even get started on the beaucracy of some of the Australian states where front venting blank and airsoft weapons are harder to get into the country than a fully functioning glock 9.

We dont have guns in the UK. We dont need guns in the UK.

The problem is, you have been allowed it, and now they want to take it away, your not happy. Im shocked that people are surprised, that when a nation has guns.. and the government says hand em in.. most do so, the ones who dont are the ones who dont care about the government rules/laws and the ones who are causing the problems.

We dont suffer much murder, home invasion, or any of that stuff in the UK. We all see guns as lame.. no one wants it, not even the crooks and mugs. Last time someone pulled a knife to me (In Glasgow) I laughed at him and walked away.. Im not even joking. He did nothing, just all talk.

After watching that video, its changed my opinion on Aus, I thought it was more like the UK than the USA. Sucks for them because there in a bad position.

Originally posted by minto
We dont have guns in the UK. We dont need guns in the UK.

Sure you do.

Link

I've worked in the UK, and their gun laws are generally less restrictive than Australia. It's getting more difficult to export weapons from the UK which has severely damaged their airsoft and model weapon industries, but they are certainly all there.

the ones who dont are the ones who dont care about the government rules/laws and the ones who are causing the problems.

Playing devil's advocate ... No, no they're not. Especially not the ones that have held those weapons for decades and not caused any harm with them. Especially not those with a livelyhood based around those firearms. Also, what if that government turns bad one day?

Last time someone pulled a knife to me (In Glasgow) I laughed at him and walked away.. Im not even joking. He did nothing, just all talk.

You got lucky. I had 30ish stitches in my hand and a severed tendon last time I did something like this.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

I live in the state of Massachusetts in the United States in a small town where just about everyone owns several types of Guns. Rifles, Shotguns, Hand Guns and Rifles such as AR-15's and AK's.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because EVERYONE IS ARMED!

Taking away GUNS from Citizens who own them legally as well as use them legally and for Hunting as well as Defense or Target Shooting Hobbies is just plain CRIMINAL as far as a Government forcing people to give up their weapons.

All this does is allow Criminals to be the ones with Firearms. Split Infinity

And over here in the UK we have little crime (it is actually concentrated in a few "hotspots" where crime is increasing slightly which allows for some cherry picked stats). But here's the really strange thing, hardly anybody has a gun....why is that?

Let me think, would I rather live in a country where I am 99.99% guaranteed to never even see a gun (except on TV at the olympics) let alone be a victom of a gun crime or live in a country where guns are the fear factor that keeps us under control by our gun toting neighbours. NO BRAINER.

You US folks are still living with the mindset of an 18th century homesteader.......i's time to grow up.

My d.ck is bigger than your gun, or is that too subtle.

I've lived in Australia all my life and when the gun buyback started in 1996 I was 32 yo. I can honestly say I have never seen a gun up close or even in someone's hand.. I think you will find the % of gun owners per capita in OZ to be very low compared to other countries even back in '96.
I agree there seems to be more gang related crime these days, most young punks carry knives and the facts are most of them are willing to use them . The other problem is they hunt in packs, it used to be a one on one fight with fists but not any more.
I think it's the violence that proliferates on TV or in films, Video games etc. They seem to be numb to the problems that violence creates and that is a sad thing.
IMHO we never really had guns and therefore shouldn't miss them too much.
That video was a sensationalist and slanted piece of crap that does not tell the true tale of Australia.

reply to post by kudegras

That video was a sensationalist and slanted piece of crap that does not tell the true tale of Australia.

Obviously the video is extremely old, and it does tell a correct tale of Australia, it's just a side of the story you don't often hear. At the time when guns were being phased out many gun owners weren't happy about it, this video is merely showing their side of the story, and I think their concerns at the time were completely legitimate. Of course it's not true that we've all become hulled up in high security homes, but neither is it true that the ban had any considerable impact on crime rates as far as I can tell. I think the principle of it is what really matters here, we shouldn't need government permission to own a firearm and we shouldn't be blaming weapons for how people use them... do you blame the knife when it is used by a crazy person to kill a bunch of people? I didn't think so...

Wait a minute..it is wrong for outsiders to say anything about guns and Americans...but their allowed to talk about guns and other countries?

Here in Canada..we do not live in constant fear...that the Americans seem to live in...I mean why else would they harp on the fact they need guns for protection?

Keep your guns Americans...as one poster stated before...our d**ks are bigger than your guns...

If having a gun seems to make you feel safer..that is just sad...wait..more like pathetic.

I think only one of our cities it gun crazy right now...and that is because they seem to be more in touch with their American side.. I am talking about Toronto.

I would bet anyone that the guns being used in Toronto..are all from America...we need a more thorough check at our borders so guns from America do not make it here.

American guns, Canadian deaths

God I wish the American cowards would just keep mouths shut on other countries that do not have guns..we are happy and feel safe...we do not live in constant fear.

Are we jealous we don't guns...hell no...we prefer it. So keep your guns and shove em where the sun don't shine...

Originally posted by WorkingClassMan
First let me say I'm Australian, I own guns (legally), & I opposed the gun laws in the form they were passed.

Secondly let me say that video was a load of sensationalist CRAP.

Australians are not disarmed just restricted, you don't need an AK for home protection my gauge will do just fine, nor do I want my crack head neighbour killing my kids when he has a "moment" and thinks letting loose dozens of fmj rounds in a suburban area is a good thing.

WE ARE NOT LIVING IN FEAR, what a crock fencing ourselves in & installing high tech security lol lol & lol.
Like the poster above said, this is a very different place to the US so while I do think you need gun reform I think you need to be very careful how you go about it.
We also don't have another country that shares our border to flood us with illegal firearms, which is a big consideration IMO.

The biggest thing that video forgot to mention while stating the rise in crime figures, is this is not the same country it was 10/20 years ago. We have had mass immigration (no racist) but often of they types of people who have less care for life than us, we have had economic troubles & a lot more class division, we have had an increase of drugs like Meth, we have had an escalation of gang violence now the traditional groups are being challenged by other new ethnic groups & the list goes on.
So once again that vid was 100% horse sh%$, & comparing Oz to the USA is even bigger pile of crap, also 600,000(illegal) guns over a population of 22 million people, we still have an estimated 2.5 million and rising legally owned fire arms.
How many guns in USA to people.
We can have rifles (centre & rim), shot guns & hand guns but we can't have semi auto, full auto, high capacity mags etc without a very good reason as most people don't need this.
We can't own them for purposes such as home defense/fighting the gov or just because it's cool, we can however have them for sport, hunting, & work needs farmer etc.
We do have to complete a full day course both theory & practical before applying for a license. We do have to have them locked away which IMO isn't a bad thing cause anyone who has a gun should have at least 1 professional lesson & we don't have a problem with kids taking guns to school or accidentally getting shot in the home.
Not like anyone is coming to check under your pillow at 2am though so if you have half a brain you will have a cover story good to go & not fill out home defense as your reason to own 1 on your application form, if your not that smart then your not smart enough to do that you are not smart enough to own a gun.

Worst part is costs involved to us, but that's a small price really, also the fact it will take you at least 12months to be approved for a hand gun, you will face more scrutiny & you will have to actively use this gun at a range X times a year.

edit on 7-8-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-8-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-8-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: (no reason given)

No, we are disarmed. The process and requirements for owning a gun are so lengthy and the criteria so difficult to satisfy that it isn't practical or really possible to own a gun in many parts of the country unless you're a farmer and then for some reason you just get a free pass.

I live in a major city (not a capital, and I'm not going to disclose which city I'm in for privacy reasons) and it is literally impossible to own a handgun in my city due to the requirements unless we satisfy the requirements which involve regular trips to a sporting club - very regular trips. The biggest problem is that there aren't any handgun clubs anywhere in my city or even on the outskirts, what this means is that unless you can afford to take the time and spend the money constantly driving many hours to another city on weekends then you can't own a handgun at all.

Not to mention the storage criteria that, in fact I know about a dozen other people like myself who can't satisfy this requirement since we can't make modifications to our homes which means we can't install the special types of safe they require, because they need to be bolted down and of a certain size that is prohibitively expensive, but the main reason is that I rent - hence why I'm not allowed modifications.

I'm just a #ing worker, I can't afford the expense of travelling to another city every weekend and buying a giant #ing safe.

Unless you're a farmer you are disarmed in this country. The government does everything in its power to prevent us from having weapons of any kind and it is completely #ing absurd the level they go to to ensure this, especially considering that all they did was create a black market that is unprecedented in size in this country.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


Gun control might work in England. I can see it working on an island the size of the state of Louisiana. I can see that logistically working. That’s great for you guys. Is your politics so great there that you can spend your time worrying about ours?

I’ve owned guns for 32 years and I know My family and I are safer for it. You don’t punish the ones that can handle the responsibility of gun ownership because of the ones that can’t.

That’s really what it boils down to either your government doesn’t feel its citizens are responsible enough to own guns, or it has a more sinister reason to want to disarm the populace.

Otherwise what makes for a more secure country? One that allows gun ownership and has a populace that knows how to handle them, or one that has a population that is unarmed untrained and frankly afraid of a gun.

How Europe isn’t ruled by a dictator is beyond me, oh wait that’s right, said dictator got overzealous and attacked Russia and spread his army too thin, that and a little help from USA and Canada.

reply to post by Jake321


You are so right ...your government fears the gun owners in America that it does not do anything without your consent...it does not constantly screw you over, it does not spy on you..they do not infringe on your rights..etc...oh wait...

The argument that guns keep the government in check really does not work..when the American government is constantly screwing them over ..infringing upon their rights..etc
The argument that guns are for protection also does not work..since it makes Americans look like they live in constant fear.

So what else ya got..

reply to post by kerazeesicko


I wouldn't expect someone from Canada to understand. How long have you been hidding under our skirt?

My point wasn't that guns make us safer from our own government but add to our national security along with our person security. I don't always agree with what my government does and I do feel they have gotten a little out of hand, but handing in our guns wouldn't do anything to fix it. You assume we live in fear, I can assure you I don't.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

I live in the state of Massachusetts in the United States in a small town where just about everyone owns several types of Guns. Rifles, Shotguns, Hand Guns and Rifles such as AR-15's and AK's.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because EVERYONE IS ARMED!

Taking away GUNS from Citizens who own them legally as well as use them legally and for Hunting as well as Defense or Target Shooting Hobbies is just plain CRIMINAL as far as a Government forcing people to give up their weapons.

All this does is allow Criminals to be the ones with Firearms. Split Infinity

i too live in a small town...near a big city in australia.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because no one IS ARMED!

this means that when i am walking home from the pub on a saturday night and i might want to "cop a squat"..no one is going to pull out a magnum and shoot me because they think im about to rob their house.

Originally posted by bellagirl

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

I live in the state of Massachusetts in the United States in a small town where just about everyone owns several types of Guns. Rifles, Shotguns, Hand Guns and Rifles such as AR-15's and AK's.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because EVERYONE IS ARMED!

Taking away GUNS from Citizens who own them legally as well as use them legally and for Hunting as well as Defense or Target Shooting Hobbies is just plain CRIMINAL as far as a Government forcing people to give up their weapons.

All this does is allow Criminals to be the ones with Firearms. Split Infinity

i too live in a small town...near a big city in australia.

We have very little crime and what crime we do have is trivial in it's level of violence....because no one IS ARMED!

this means that when i am walking home from the pub on a saturday night and i might want to "cop a squat"..no one is going to pull out a magnum and shoot me because they think im about to rob their house.

Exactly.

All these Americans here saying "Oh, but your population and crime percentage means that your crime rate is the same as ours, if not over."

Americans have no idea about Australia. Our Country is so different from theirs, it isn't even funny.



Sure, there may be the odd shooting once or twice a month, and it makes the news because it's a rarity.


When I worked for Statewide Mortuary Transfers, you know how many gun-murdered people I picked up?



One.





One dead man in 3 years, and I worked 6 days a week, on call 24 hours.





Come to Australia and live a happy life.


Trust me, all this sensationalist rubbish about us Australians having no rights because our guns got taken away, so what?


If you have troubles with guns then you have troubles with criminals, which means you have troubles with your police force, which means your Government is the problem.

I don't know about the anti-American sentiment here.

Australia is a different country. We're completely different. That's partly why gun control laws haven't made any significant impact to our homocide and suicide rates. Both sides try to build cases including sudden spikes in homocides or sucides, to crediting on going trends that could be entirely natural. Fact of the matter is most of Australia's gun deaths (around 4 in 5 I think?) have been from suicide and gun violence has never really been a major issue like the US have had it.

Fact of the matter is Australia is a different country but that isn't any reason to gloat over another country's issues, and it certainly isn't any reason to insult gun owners themselves.

Yes, I own guns. That doesn't mean I'm American, dumb, or packing to give myself a larger ego.

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by mal1970

 

In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms in Australia.

This says it all. Figure it out! ( I'll give you a hint......GUNS were involved.) Get your gun Annie!

Originally posted by just_julie
Australia and USA are very very different countries.

And yet criminals are the same no matter where you go.