Oz P.M. Howard and Dubya...guns

Well these quotes have been conveniently ignored by main-stream media.

John Howard:�
�I hate guns.�

� I don�t think people should have guns unless they�re police or in the military or in the security industry. There is no earthly reason for people to have � ordinary citizens should not have weapons. We do not want the American disease imported into Australia."

�I think guns have become a blight on American society. We do not have the same gun culture as the Americans and we should strenuously resist any slide into the gun culture of the United States.�
Radio 2GB Sydney, 17 April 2002.�

www.c-l-a-s-s.net...

And Dubya calls Howard a 'man of steel'.

Sanc'.

Sanc, this is exactly the kind of topic I have been pushing on "right" Americans elswhere. The contradiction over their open support of John Howard and his draconian and communist policy on gun ownership in Australia is very interesting. I put it to them that they care nothing for their true friends, the Australian people, and only care for Howard when he serves their interests, ie. Iraq and Bush. The response is mixed. Particularly interesting is when you put this to them after they have waffled on about what an excellent choice Australians have made by voting Howard back in, and how they (the republican right) can "always count on the Aussies". Funny how they support an ally who will gladly see the right to defend oneself become a criminal act.

I am pro self-defence by any means necessary. Interesting that Howard will send an adult Australian with a full-auto rifle to pre-emptively kill in a foreign country, yet that same adult Australian cannot legally defend his family with a gun in his own country (For those that don't know, self-defence is not a genuine reason when applying for a firearms permit in Australia).

So what do you think the Man-of-Steel� now?

How well would a pro-gun candidate (for any office) fare in Australia? Does the majority of Australians support gun ownership? How does the current slate of gun laws (in respect to criminal acts and self defense issues) affect the loosening (or maintaining or even tightening) of private citizens owning firearms?

Just curious... Curious George.

Seems to me he is speaking common sense. Good for him.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
How well would a pro-gun candidate (for any office) fare in Australia? Does the majority of Australians support gun ownership? How does the current slate of gun laws (in respect to criminal acts and self defense issues) affect the loosening (or maintaining or even tightening) of private citizens owning firearms?

Just curious... Curious George.

A pro-gun candidate would get the votes in a rural/farming electorate.
Farmers etc, need shotguns and rifles to protect their cattle and/or crop.
But hand-guns are not tolerated at all, in any demographic.

Sanc'.

Sanctum:

You say hand guns are not tolerated. Is this in Australia you are
referring to? And are they not tolerated by the average person,
or by the PTB? I would think that the average person would like to
have a hand gun and not be told what they can or can't do with it.

I know that in Western Nebraska, the hand gun is a way of life here.
It has nothing to do with Wild West mentality. It is a FREEDOM,
something that Australia and England, Japan and a lot of other
countries don't seem to grasp. I don't believe the complete ban of
guns will ever happen here, as too many folks would not go for that.

I read with interest an article in the Scottsbluff Star Herald this morning
by the AP, that Australia sent 2,000 troops to Iraq. There are only about
900 troops left there. They DO NOT have any type of combat role, and
interestingly, NOT ONE Australian has been killed in Iraq. Why are all of
the Aussies whining about Iraq?

If there will ever be a reason for revolution in this country, it will come
from total gun control and banning any type of ownership. Let the parade
begin. Try to pry the gun out of my hand, and you will be digging lead
out of you know where.

ZOOMER

A contest!! Who is missing in this image? Hint: There's two people in front of Johnny and
one behind, and they are not Aussies.



Sanc'.

Originally posted by ZOOMER
Sanctum:
You say hand guns are not tolerated. Is this in Australia you are
referring to?ZOOMER

Apart from the 'authorities' the only ppl who pack a heater
is someone with a nick-name like "fat Tony"

Sanc'.

Just for the record, I don't own a gun. I'm not a "gun nut". But I am not against people defending their lives while on their own property with a gun. We saw recently the case in the UK where Tony Martin was jailed for shooting and killing one of 3 intruders in his home. His sentence was only reduced from life in prison for murder to 4 years or so after charges were reduced to manslaughter. For defending himself in his home.

Unless the police can miraculously appear on your doorstep in 2 seconds, or the intruder is polite enough to let you make a phone call, then you are on your own. There are some basic human rights that should just never be interfered with. In cases of honest self-defence, people should know they have real rights.

Lil'Jonny seems to think that by banning guns, criminals will find some kind of rational concience and hand theirs in. Since when has it ever NOT been in a criminals job description to carry a weapon?

Mirthful me, the sheeple in this country have been conditioned for the most part to believe guns are evil. One example of ignorance springs to mind when a talkback caller was giving their opinion on local radio and said "I don't know anything about guns, but I know I don't like them". Some people choose the "Nobody needs a gun" line, people also don't need a hole in the head.

ZOOMER, the Australian SAS were in Iraq on Ops before the war was even announced. Check the overly extended Special Forces thread towards the end (in the War on Terror forum) for more info, but let's keep it there.

Sanc, I give up. I'm guessing they are his well armed bodyguards, because we all know how much more important his life is than the average Australian's.

Originally posted by ZOOMER
They DO NOT have any type of combat role, and
interestingly, NOT ONE Australian has been killed in Iraq.

Included in these forces were groups of Australian SAS and Commando Personnel who performed Recon and combat search and rescue mission along side American and British SF units.

www.wordiq.com...

150 special forces troops

www.wordiq.com...

Sanc'.

Sanctum:

I was quoting what the Associated Press has been printing
for some time now.
As far as Special Forces, you say the Aussies have, or had, 150
there? WOW! A whole 150! We can put that many together for a
BBQ in this country. But the truth is, NOT ONE Australian has been
killed in that war in Iraq, no matter what their role was.

ZOOMER

Uh, and thats a bad thing how ZOOMER?

I thought they had target shooting in Australia so that sport is not Valid in that guys eyes?

So any one that is a target shooter in that country is out of luck if that guy has his way?

Originally posted by ZOOMER
But the truth is, NOT ONE Australian has been
killed in that war in Iraq, no matter what their role was.
ZOOMER

That's right ZOOMER
I quote,

The primary mission of the SAS squadron, mostly veterans of Timor and Afghanistan, was to stop weapons of mass destruction from being launched from the 1991 "Scud line" in the western Iraqi desert.

They found no Scuds, but the 80 Australians took on and defeated more than 2000 Iraqis, including elite Republican Guard troops and counter special forces troops.

"We made the assessment that they were Iraqi secret intelligence service type people, very similar in mind set to ourselves. They were older, very hard-minded people, very determined," Squadron Commander Paul B told The Sunday Times. In many battles, SAS soldiers were outnumbered by 10 to one or more.

The head of the newly formed Special Operation Command, Major-General Duncan Lewis, said the cement works operation was a classic example of what the SAS could do.

"Minimum force was used, a bloodbath was prevented and the works was undamaged and back in operation hours later," Maj-Gen Lewis said.

The overwhelming success of the SAS mission to deny the enemy any ballistic missile launches was due to technology, training and superior communications, he said.

The fact that the squadron suffered no casualties did not surprise its commanding officer Rick B. Like all operational SAS personnel, he cannot be named or identified.

209.157.64.200...

I rest my case.
Sanc'.

Theres no proposed changes as far as I know Shadow, the gun controls are very tight down here, and the majority is well and truly in favour of this. Its quite nice to know that the chances of any random crook having a gun is slim to none. Worst case scenario is a knife, which is a pretty big improvement.

Its a simple matter to get a gun if you have a legitimate need for it. If you have a reasonably sized property, you can get small rifles for vermin control etc. You do however have to prove that you have a proper gun safe and keep it locked away when not using. Which is fair enough.

As far as shooting clubs and so forth, yes people are still allowed to be part of them and it is a justification to get your license. Theres even the added bonus that if you can't afford your own gun safe, you can lock it up at the club.

Hell were even still winning shooting medals at the olympics.

Kano:

Please don't get me wrong. I wasn't implying that it was a BAD
thing that no Australians have been killed in Iraq. I wish that not
one single person on this planet would be killed with guns.
I guess I was just mashing numbers in my head and not printing
what I was thinking. I was thinking about the mass numbers of
Americans over there compared to everyone else. And the Americans
have been in the thick of things more than anyone else, which would
account for the over 1,000 that have been slaughtered.

Again, I don't think it is a bad thing to NOT have deaths from other
troops there. I apologize if I came across that way.

There needs to be an exit plan for EVERYONE to get out, and soon.
Today would be preferable.

ZOOMER

Cool Kano Its good to know that our friends down under can partake in the fine sport of target shooting. I am a avid target shooter and I love it I have never killed anything with my rifles but paper targets.

I forgot about the Olympics Australia took the shooting gold in Women's trap and bronze in mens's trap

It is a bit disturbing to me. Ones right to own a gun should not be taken from them........Maybe this is the only bad thing against him. Was his opponent for gun ownership?

Howard is just a weasel and a lackey for Bush. Real Australians do not pander to foreign countries and send troops on abysmally planned illegal missions, in order to soften trade deals.

In my experience few Australians want a proliferation of gun ownership. The few should probably emigrate to the US to satisfy their gun fantasies, would that work?

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

In my experience few Australians want a proliferation of gun ownership. The few should probably emigrate to the US to satisfy their gun fantasies, would that work?

Send Us Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses Yearning To Be Free and those yearning to be gun owners.

To be fair all people that want to own a gun dont have "gun fantasies" Im sure even Australia is not free of violent crime perhaps they just want to be able to protect themselves.

[edit on 10-10-2004 by ShadowXIX]