The devil should oppose abortion, and christians should be for it

I was not the one who posed the scenario/question. I simply gave an honest reply that fits what I believe. If you are looking for everyone to agree with you on this, perhaps you are asking the wrong people. ATS is an international pool of thought. Does it surprise you that some disagree with you, in regards to your thread?

I'm not trying to make enemies here. Just calling things as they are. Abortion is the intentional murder of a child because one regrets conceiving them. Why is the child being punished for actions of the parents? Then to somehow decide that you are doing God a favor. I don't get it...

reply to post by SaturnFX

I say a fetus is just as alive as sperm. Both have potential, both require help to become a lifeform.

You say; exactly... This means this is your belief. Do as you will my friend, but the OP asked a question which I have replied to with my own belief. Perhaps my words are strong, but they reflect the strength of my belief in this matter. Would you respect me if I tried the "weenie" approach, or would you rather know right from the front where I stand?

Also the thread is not about whether abortion is right or wrong in man's eyes. The OP has asked if abortion does God a favor, so please don't try to take this off topic...

reply to post by SaturnFX

This thread is about abortion and it's relevance to God and Satan, and I have stated my beliefs on that. Perhaps your euthanasia question deserves it's own thread; out of fairness to the OP. I will be glad to answer you there...

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
reply to post by SilentKoala

 

No fundy here. Is this how you justify murdering your children? In the name of God?

First I don't have children,
Second I don't like the idea of abortion personally,
Third this thread pertains to the faulty logic of opposing abortion for religious reasons, haven't gotten any insights from you on that yet...

reply to post by SilentKoala

Fair enough. My grandchildren are here; give me some time and I will get back to you...

I think some considerations are being left out here that invalidate the conclusions.

The baby with all it's potential to bring love and joy to the world is killed off early. Win for Satan.

The mother consents to killing her baby, oftentimes causing severe psychological damage. Win for Satan.

All the people concerned in the abortion aid in committing murder. WIn for Satan.

Society's belief that human lives are not precious and to be protected is strengthed. Win for Satan.

reply to post by SilentKoala

Star and flag, SilentKoala, for a great question session. I had to read it twice myself. I agree with your thought there too.

reply to post by SilentKoala

Your thread is obviously an attack on Christianity, plain and simple. You do this in some slick way to get kicks out of it. This forum is read world wide, and it never goes away. Your words will be here when you and I take our last breaths. For me not to stand up now, would allow this "teaching" of yours to go unchallenged. Many could be corrupted by this blasphemous game of yours, and murder their children in the name of God. I won't have that; I'm sorry if this offends you or anyone else. It is not my intention.

I call myself a Christian (whether the world does or not), based on a firm belief in the teachings of Christ. That's it! I have no special insight into anything, be it religious or worldly. I don't currently attend Church, though I have in the past; even applied for a job as youth pastor once. In prison, I accepted the responsibility of Church Secretary and Treasurer, for the four and a half months I was there. I cannot speak for the Church, nor Christianity as a whole. All I can do is speak for myself, based on those teachings I hold dear.

Once again, these are my beliefs. If anyone is confused on this matter, seek guidance elsewhere. I have no way of knowing at what stage of development the soul is given to the unborn fetus. Could be day one, could be day 60; I don't know. Which of you in this thread do? To say that development does not define life, to me is a mistake. For cells to multiply and grow they need to be alive. This is all the argument I need to believe that if the growth is arrested intentionally, something has indeed died; and, that which arrested it is at fault. In the case of humans, this is called murder.

I am instructed by my faith in Christ not to take human life, plain and simple. What reason would I have to believe that this instruction comes from, or will benefit Satan; there is none.

I also believe, that if I have committed acts against my faith; I am forgiven. However I must also change that behavior to once again live according to that faith. This applies to all who live by the teachings of Christ, and it is open to all who seek it.

This is my final post in your thread. Thank you for your time and patience.

reply to post by SilentKoala


As a Christian (though not a Fundamentalist, so maybe I don't count in your world,) I believe in the sanctity of life because I believe in the dignity of the human being. No one knows what happens to aborted babies, or even to those who are born and die without being baptized. The Catholic concept of Limbo was arrived at through St. Augustine because of an argument that he needed to make against the Manichaeans (an early split off from the Church that Augustine viewed as heretical.)

An aborted child is a lost opportunity. A lost opportunity of love, of hope, of being. It doesn't matter what the "devil" might think about it, or what sort of argument you might wish to twist about it -- it is a loss.

Consider this -- the American Declaration of Independence grants that we have inherent rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." To that end, doesn't that document protect the rights of the unborn? Isn't killing a baby in the womb murder?

Well, not in the case of abortion. Why? Because they redefined what it means to be a person. They can't legalize murder, so they simply declared that a fetus isn't a human being, and so killing whatever it is cannot be murder.

But it IS murder in other instances. In 38 states, you can be tried for murder if you accidentally or intentionally kill a fetus in the womb (source). If, for example, you were to walk up to a pregnant woman in Minnesota and stab her in the abdomen, killing the child in the womb, you would be tried for assault (on the mother) and murder (for the baby).

So, not murder if the mother decides to abort it, murder if she wants to have the baby and you deprive her of that.

Meaning, in essence, that we have defined something as a "human being" only if it is desired.

If that ain't evil, I don't know what the hell is.

reply to post by SilentKoala



This is a very valid thread subject. Here, let me add "my true story."

I am NOT a Christian now, but I grew up in an Assembly of God, Pentecostal environment in the mid 1900's, when "My Three Son's" and "Father Knows Best" was the prime time family fodder.

My mother used to tuck me in and night and we'd say prayers. My mother used that time to admonish me against having children during these "end time." "Never have children" she would pound into my head, "because they will only know tribulation."

The "rapture" was coming any minute, and I lived in constant fear of being left behind, because, the way I grew up, everything we wanted to do was a sin, and merely wanting to listen to rock and roll could make you miss the rapture!

In the '60's birth control was new, not well understood, highly controversial and, for the most part, limited to married women. My older sister became pregnant with an exchange student from Kenya's child. A black man!

My mother took my sister to the church, where our pastor called a meeting of the church deacons. My sister sat there while they discussed what should happen. Abortion is what they all agreed on. They told her that if she didn't, she wouldn't be thrown out of the church, and her college, which was a Christian college. So she did!

Abortion wasn't legal in the state where we lived, so, my parents sent to Hawaii to get it done.

Skip forward to the early '70's, and I'm 17 and in love, and oops, pregnant! I'm trotted in front of the congregation of deacons for the abortion ruling. I refuse! I'm a tough rebellious teenager, in love!

So, I'm kicked out of the church, and out of my home. My mother tells me she can't bear to look at me, my father is silent and won't speak to me or look at me. They packed up the belongings that they deemed mine, and put it all out on the front lawn, and changed to locks to the house.

I had a job and was working as a waitress. They fired me for being pregnant. It was a legal reason for dismissal at the time. I tried to get unemployment, but I was disqualified, because "pregnancy was a choice." So I went on public assistance, Welfare. My social worker yelled at me and hounded me to "do the right thing" and get an abortion, by phone, in person in her office and on home visits, all the way up to the 20 week mark!

I'm happy to say that my lovely daughter is an accomplished scientist working the HIV/AID and is recognized in a global community. No thanks to Christians!

Originally posted by windword
I'm happy to say that my lovely daughter is an accomplished scientist working the HIV/AID and is recognized in a global community. No thanks to Christians!

I am happy that your daughter is here and helping, as well.

I find the way that you and your sister were treated was beyond repugnant, and I am very sorry that anyone, Christian or not, would act in that manner.

AFAIK yes babies are innocent however it is mankind that has sinned and our mortality is the result of this. By repenting we enter the kingdom of god as visitors.
I have no idea of membership as we're learning 24/7 until we pass on

If, as a Christian, one believes that this world is Satan's realm, and that we are all born into sin and are as wretched sinners that need to repent as soon as we become self aware. why would a Christian want to have children? Isn't there great risk of adding to Satan's army, like my parents did with me, and I did by having my daughter, who is an atheist?

Even though my parents raised me with all the Christian trappings, they were unable to keep me in God's circle. The path is narrow and few will succeed in finding God's grace, or so I was always told. My mother and father died knowing that and my daughter and I are going to hell. They died with the guilt of believing that it was somehow there fault, simply because they had a child that belonged to Satan from the beginning, and they will look down on us from heaven, as we burn in hell, because we don't believe in "The Redeemer." They truly believed this and told me so, many times.

So, for hard core, fundamental Christians, who believe that few will make it, why tempt God by bring another soul into Satan's world, that will need to be saved?

reply to post by SilentKoala


Your logic blows, and is totally wrong