US Government planning on shutting down LEGAL BUSINESS - because they don't like it!

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
warning warning troll alert!

dear long lost troll... are you fuk'in kidding me?

the FED is a private companyand it should be disbanded for the insider and cronry capitalism it represents. At one time I might see where the government might need help with its money distribution but in the world today of computers it is an outdated concept draining the economy

now that I fed the FED troll I am moving on!

"We own the Federal Reserve. There is this misconception that the Federal Reserve is a private entity" - Gary Johnson

And even if you think the Libertarian Presidential candidate is wrong and Ron Paul is right, the Libertarian policy that that the government should NOT regulate ANY business.

"Industries should be governed by free markets." - Libertarian Party Platform

They also say:

"The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected." - Libertarian Party Platform

So no matter if you think Ron Paul or Gary Johnson is right, they both believe, on paper, that ""Industries should be governed by free markets." And that the government should NOT stop monopolies.

reply to post by longlostbrother


They aren't destroying it, but they advocate it.. It probably won't happen anyhow.

The Federal Reserve shouldn't exist at all. It's unconstitutional. BOTTOM LINE.

How about addressing the myriad of other things I stated.

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


There is also nothing in the Audit the Fed bill that says they are ABOLISHING it.

Get real man.

They aren't regulating anything. They are auditing. Big difference. We are seeing where the money goes. If the people don't like it.. The people or "Free Market" will make sure it disappears. Ron Paul hasn't done anything without the backing of the people. I think this goes beyond libertarians when an astounding majority of congress voted in the Audit the Fed Bill.

Originally posted by ZiggyMojo
A few things that make this thread completely useless..

Businesses and citizens get audited every year at random by the government. Sometimes they are audited because of suspicious activity.. Why shouldn't a privatized bank parading around as a government institution be held to the same standard? The federal reserve is a privately held organization that PRINTS money that is no longer backed by a valuable commodity like gold. If you knew anything about the constitution and our founding fathers.. You'd know that this sort of thing was explicitly stated as being a danger to our nation's well being and should never have happened. The Federal Reserve was put into place behind closed doors without many people knowing.. It was a scam from the start with some of the richest Men of the era and the US Government. It has worked beautifully for them until now... The system couldn't go on forever.

Ron Paul and libertarians aren't trying to shut down private business.. He is auditing them in hopes that it may expose the billions of our tax dollars that are appropriated for bull#. If the fed is exposed we might get some freaking reform with our banking system which would ultimately lead to a healthier economy.

- Businesses do get audited, but few get audited by people who have been agitating for their destruction... conflict of interest?

- You're saying their parading as a government institution. Are they?

- The opinion that fiat currency is going to destroy everything is just that, an opinion, lot's of very well revered economists disagree.

- I know a LOT about the US constitution. You CLAIM it's unconstitutional, but no courts agree with you and the Act passed by Congress has lasted for decades. So again, that's just an opinion. Others disagree: www.publiceye.org...

If there's other specific things you want me to answer, ask... I'm not gonna go through dozens...

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


So they advocate for private business to be destroyed, they're just not trying to destroy it??

And sure, let those guys, the people that want it destroy, let them audit it.

If this was about handguns, and a anti-gun guy wrote the "audit the gun manufacturers bill" the gun lobby would be running ads 24/7 about that.

Originally posted by ZiggyMojo
reply to post by ZiggyMojo

 

There is also nothing in the Audit the Fed bill that says they are ABOLISHING it.

Get real man.

They aren't regulating anything. They are auditing. Big difference. We are seeing where the money goes. If the people don't like it.. The people or "Free Market" will make sure it disappears. Ron Paul hasn't done anything without the backing of the people. I think this goes beyond libertarians when an astounding majority of congress voted in the Audit the Fed Bill.

edit on 27-7-2012 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)

Ron Paul has done tons without the backing of the people, that's what a leader does, he get's people behind him... he's not a follower.

As for the people making sure the business disappears, over on the other fed thread, and you saw this, the majority of posters thought the government was too corrupt to fairly audit the fed?

So, we trust the corrupt politicians, who want to "end" the fed, because we agree with their goals?

And even though the two main Libertarian politicians can't even agree if it's a private business?!

And btw., fiat money was in existence before the Constitution was written, but after the Revolutionary war.

en.wikipedia.org...

Alexander Hamilton was a big supporter of that private central bank.

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

it's not a business. They cant legally turn a profit from PUBLIC MONEY.

Like cops selling their guns. They can't do it. Yes that would be a business, but just not a legal one.

You are really sick man. I´ll give you that. Damn.

So when Ron Paul calls it a privately owned corporation, he's wrong??

The Federal Reserve is, "A secretive, private, government ordained corporation" - Ron Paul

Jesus, you better email his office, he's said that thousands of times and mustn't know the truth!

The 99 year charter for the fed is up this year. They operate under the color of law. The audit is to evaluate if they get to continue doing the job of congress or not. They have no legal right to this monopoly. They can simply deny the audit and take on all the debt for the money they printed for stimulus, QE1 AND QE2. Nothing wrong with this, they are as you admit a privately owned corp. It's their debt, not the tax payers. So they can skip the audit and take on their debt they incurred from fraud and deception and go on printing money that is worth nothing. Congress simply has to print real, government backed money that is legal and lawful. If you feel making them take on the debt that is legally, lawfully and rightfully theirs is akin to "running them out of business" instead of laying it at the feet of you and I, our children and our grankids and their kids you have skewed thinking. It's word play. The audit is simply going to place the debt for credit default swaps and loans and printing useless script at the owners feet and not ours. If congress gave them the right to print debt instruments 99 years ago and gave them a 99 year charter then they simply have the legal and lawful authority to choose not to renew it. And all they have to do is take icelands lead and tell them "no thank you, we don't want your debt, you can have it"
All the trillions of dollars in US debt is theirs, not ours. They are a private corporation. If they go bust from it.....so??????? That isn't our fault or congress. What you seem to miss is that we don't have to legalize their theft and take their debt if we do not want to. They can still remain open for business but not with taxpayer approval to incur their debts. They get to print their worthless debt instruments for anyone that wants them, but not with congess's approval with a new charter. Congress simply has to print their own government backed debt instruments that is legally and lawfully appointed to them through the Constitution.

So, this legal business you are supporting. Do you support them legally incurring their debt they created or do you support them operating under the color of law in their attempts to convince you and I to take on their debts. It's in the trillions you know? Iceland said no thanks, it's your debt. How about you? Or do you want 3-4 generations of US peoples to take on their losses? Isn't it their debt? It's their debt instruments!!
Iceland proves this.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by ZiggyMojo

 

So they advocate for private business to be destroyed, they're just not trying to destroy it??

And sure, let those guys, the people that want it destroy, let them audit it.

If this was about handguns, and a anti-gun guy wrote the "audit the gun manufacturers bill" the gun lobby would be running ads 24/7 about that.

It's their debt, not ours. If it breaks them it's not our fault, it's theirs.
It's their debt that will shut them down from the exposure that comes from the audit if congress simply says "NO" we don't want your debt. What you are wanting is for them to blindly accept their debts, on their word alone.
They can have their debt and print their currencies backed by their debt. It's unbelievably simple..I mean, they are a private corporation as you say. If they want you and I to pay for the debts they incurred while doing business, we get to see the books. If we don't want it, just say "NO". All Congress has to do is legally and lawfully print their own debt instruments backed by something and allow the FED to do the same. If that drives them out of business simply because of a measely 20-30 trillion or so that's just a crying shame now isn't it?

What would a fed note be worth backed by 30 trillion dollars debt?
I see nothing wrong in allowing them to stay in business as a private entity. But why should Congress give them another 99 year charter when all they have to do is print their own debt instruments for currency?
Aren't there laws in place against monoploies?

reply to post by longlostbrother


Wow, 3 pages and no flags! I'm impressed ATS, keep up the good work!

reply to post by manna2


You realise that a lot of that is unsubstantiated opinion..

reply to post by longlostbrother


You realize that your OP and many of your comments are also unsubstantiated opinion.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
The Federal Reserve is, "a secretive, private, government ordained corporation" - Ron Paul


"We own the Federal Reserve. There is this misconception that the Federal Reserve is a private entity" - Gary Johnson

edit on 27-7-2012 by longlostbrother because: (no reason given)

I highlighted an important part of what you keep repeating. That alone makes your entire argument moot.
The FedRes is a "government ordained corporation." It was established by an act of congress. It is private in the sense that it was established to act under the authority of congress, without regular interference by congress.

It is not Walmart or Joe's coffee and hotdog shop, or any business in between. None of those have been established by congress.


You make for an ineffective troll. Maybe you can try your hand at being a hobbit.


-SM


Just to add. Great job ATS for not giving this thread one flag. Keep up the good work.

I like you. You're hilarious. I gave you a flag Keep up the good work. Almost got two lines here... Ok, there we go... Done, and done.

reply to post by sporkmonster


Oh is that what we were doing? Crap... I always gotta be the one who ruins everything! Well... *sings* "There's always...tomorrow...for dreams to come true..." Two lines aGAIN! I'm gettin good at this!

I just remembered we could UNflag... Sorry op. I do still think you're HIGHLARIOUS! Almost there...not yet... And, done! I'm a regular pro

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by manna2

 

You realise that a lot of that is unsubstantiated opinion..

nah...Iceland is my evidence.
FDR's new deal was based on a 75 year bankrupcy as well. It just so happends to end this year as well. It was coincided with the charter.
Just say g'bye to the fed and we will all be able to rejoice and begin the rebuilding process. Or support it and welcome our new orwelian world with open arms and your head planted on concrete held by a foot from a black booted thug.
We knew of the 99 year charter long before the "end the fed" bill. You can call it coincidence if you like.

reply to post by longlostbrother

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt... You clearly don't understand what the federal reserve does...

Ahh, but this private business is a public-private partnership. It depends on a mandate from congress and legal tender laws passed by congress. It could try to stay afloat in a free market with competing currencies and no government help.

Originally posted by longlostbrother
This has got to be one of the MOST despicable over-reaches the US Government has attempted to do in years.

A completely legal business, who has actually worked WITH the government, to try and help people and businesses, is being targeted by the US Congress, for closure.

After years of demanding this private business completely reveal all of it's private and sensitive business data, the government is now demanding it be shut down!!

In fact, one of these fat cats wrote an entire book about shutting down a PRIVATE business, because he just doesn't like it!

Hopefully some of the pro-business, anti-regulation-istas on the right, like Ron Paul, will stop this madness!

Whatever happened to the invisible hand of the market? Won't a bad business simply evaporate? Why must our fatcat leaders regulate everything to daeth!

More info here!

news.yahoo.com...

You're defending the Fed? Really? The Fed doesn't have an "invisible hand".