John Moore Nibiru updates - can you afford to ignore this?

reply to post by chrisb9



Interesting observations.

Well, i suppose it could be indicative of such things. But at the same time without having access to the Artist who created it how can we be sure that it isn't just something entirely different? If i made a statue of Obama and surrounded it with 9 planets that have degrees of varying orbits then it could be representative of either the 9 planets and our sun OR that it is showing that obama had knowledge that the valence shells of a transition metal consists of nine valence orbitals.

It is a mystery though...and by no means does that mean we shouldn't be asking questions.

Originally posted by chr0naut


I think he's flicking the wind chimes with his finger so they make a tinkling noise.

Unfortunately for mankind, there is Always a " JOKER " of some type in the crowd who thinks he is funny or clever with his insults and sly remarks... !

reply to post by eriktheawful

Well perhaps i was too quick to judge, i am humble enough to admit that sometimes i jump before looking. I am human, and it is something i should work on improving yes? ( dont answer that unless you are going to be kind)

But please, tell me where i said that nibiru is real and that it definitely existed. If other people already explained it and me asking for support for these claims was misguided then why didn't you just kindly point out the posts where it was clearly explained. Why didn't you just simply say " it has already been explained look for the posts by "this user" and "that user"

But i wasn't addressing you or anyone directly now was i? Nor did i ever claim that i have proof of it either way. Just that nobody is ever able to give me a solid answer either way and that my mind is not made up on the subject. In return I get computer simulations showing that such an object is impossible based off of data that is assumed to be error free and guys showing me ancient artwork and documents that is left open for interpretation. When i start asking " how do we really know we are correct in either situation" i get told that i am uneducated or that i have to prove something when i make no claim either way.


Do you see why that is frustrating or upsetting? To be told that you are thinking about something in the wrong way when at no point do you claim that either side is correct, just that you are unable to know based on the current data. It is maddening.

reply to post by DeathShield

"Assuming our current cosmological concepts are accurate and That Stitchin and others claims are true and nibiru was a jupiter or other similarly sized object then we would see the effects of its Gravity Well on other objects. For example we would see objects being disrupted in their normal orbit or we would see other effects. As of right now we do not see anything abnormal in the orbits of any body within our solar system.

No.
It has little to do with what we see right now though that is also important.
If an object of significant mass passed through the inner Solar System on a regular basis we would not be here at all.

Those simulations which you seem to have no faith in use the same physics models which allow probes to be sent to other planets...with amazing precision. They are accurate.

Originally posted by DeathShield

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by DeathShield

 

So what do you suggest then, skeptics and believers?

I would suggest you take the time to learn a modicum of astronomy including a bit about orbital mechanics. The more the better but the basics would be sufficient to tell you that it is impossible for a body of significant mass to periodically enter the inner solar system without hopelessly disrupting the orbits of the planets. If Nibiru existed, we would not.

Without making the effort to gain the necessary understanding you will be only able to rely upon the claims of the believers and the skeptics. It's up to you...always.

edit on 7/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

So what you mean to tell me is that you have personally reviewed every single bit of evidence that claims to show proof of or non-proof of Nibiru or similar things and have access to all the labs, knowledge and equipment? Or are you basing it off of pre-existing reports and pre-existing knowledge that in and of itself is not 100% certain by sheer virtue of the limitations within our own current understandings? Knowledge that at best seems to be " mostly true" provided our pre-concieved notions are not in fact erroneous in and of themselves.

Wow, you just automatically assume that i have zero education on the subject. I already have the basic understanding of planetary physics to know that a nibiru style object would be a real wrench in the cogs for the rest of the solar systems planets. At no point do i assume that a situation is impossible though. Nor does the existence of technologies lead me to believe that there is an active effort to prove or disprove the scenario in question or that the subject is even knowable via such means. I believe that there might be a god out there but i am not running around telling everyone to repent or else zombie-christ is going to damn their souls to tartarus.

I know enough to know that there probably isn't a nibiru style scenario in play right now. Based off of current knowledge the Gravity Well that such an object would have would be another proverbial wrench in the cogs for our solar clock. But i don't think such a scenario to be impossible because " it hasn't happened. before" when the entirety of my Class and species has only been existant for a few million of the few billion years that this universe has supposedly existed for. Nor am i about to assume that the measly 100 years of scientific data and theory is free from personal cognitive biases or simple interpretation error.




So...instead of explaining to me why it couldn't work in simple and easy terms you opt to more or less throw a veiled insult my way and tell me to go get educated while refusing to substantiate your own position. Here i will give you a simple explanation for why nibiru might not be real.

"Assuming our current cosmological concepts are accurate and That Stitchin and others claims are true and nibiru was a jupiter or other similarly sized object then we would see the effects of its Gravity Well on other objects. For example we would see objects being disrupted in their normal orbit or we would see other effects. As of right now we do not see anything abnormal in the orbits of any body within our solar system. This is empirically observable within our current technological devices as interpreted by our current body of rules and standards. If you would like to know more than PM me and i will HELP YOU find the resources necessary to further educate you. However do not expect me to help if you are not willing to listen"

Wow, thanks...

Well i got my answers guys. Thanks for showing me that there is no room for a seriously inquiring mind. I didn't even have my mind made up on this subject to begin with nor did i even claim that a nibiru style object or scenario existed. But apparently by expressing skepticism of BOTH sides claims and acknowledging limitation in my own knowledge i am someone who is completely uneducated who doesn't have even the slightest idea of how things work. I'm sorry but how do any of you expect to educate anyone this way?


All i wanted to know was what made either side so sure of its claim. And instead i got the same old shifting of burden of proof and shame inducing derision

Sigh....

edit on 26-7-2012 by DeathShield because: Because i am an uneducated pig without a grip on reality.

What you gave was a condescending response to my post, and you got exactly the same back. If you would like a kinder response, you need to begin with the same. How soon you forget your own post.

Now, if you would like to start over, I'm more than willing to listen and engage in a lively discussion.

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by flyswatter

 

And you and others missed my entire point. If you are going to say that someone is wrong than you need to explain WHY they are wrong. I don't honestly expect anyone to be able to 100% meet both sides demands. I expect people to at least be willing to defend their claim. Not say " JUST GO LOOK AT THIS AND YOU WILL SEE WHY YOU ARE WRONG"

JDW001 gave a simple and honest explanation of why he doesn't believe in a nibiru style object. You ( or at least i think it was you,different people have responded so i am in a mild state of confusion as to who i am actually speaking to) said that you don't have to prove anything because you aren't making a positive assertion.

I never claimed that nibiru was real or unreal. Just that i want to see evidence for BOTH positions. You ignored that and said that you have nothing to prove, that the other guy has everything to prove. It is a dishonest tactic. I am not running around claiming that nibiru is real because some dude somewhere says so, and i am not about to say that it definitely doesn't exist without providing reason for my claim.

Cool, certainly better than your last response. I appreciate that. We can all improve the way that we respond at times, myself included.

You need to realize that over and over again, we have shown plenty of things that the OP could look at and realize that he is wrong. He has chosen to follow a train of thought on this subject that pretty much ignores scientific proof, but that is absolutely his choice. I cannot pretend to know what people in biblical times were talking about when mentioning great objects in the sky or whatever, but we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is no brown dwarf ready to pass close to Earth and create one hell of a surf party.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


albedo is just a value of the reflected light percentage, so it varies depending on all kinds of things, how much light is hitting it, what the surface/atmospheric conditions are etc. so for instance, when the earth was covered in ice its albedo was extremely high, cause ice reflects the majority or light it recieves, inits current form, albedo is much lower than those times, cloud reflects light more than blue ocean does, so these are all things that affect albedo

reply to post by flyswatter


Well i think you may have misunderstood me. Or i at least should have stated my humble intentions. It can be hard to convey tone and inflection over text.... And don't get me wrong i am not immune to this effect. I am not above human and i do not confuse the glory that men give me with the glory of gods. So i do humbly apologize if i upset you on a personal level. I should be more careful with my wording and while mid-response to phage was thinking about that.

As far as my actual stance on nibiru. I have yet to see anything from Amateur astronomers that show that something in our solar system is being affected by it. Let alone evidence of a gravity well of another object affecting other things. I do think it possible that a rouge planet COULD cause a nibiru style event, but that in and of itself would bring about a whole string of cataclysmic events with it. Plus the speed it would have to travel at to evade detection would make it less like Armageddon and more like "hypersonic bullet hitting an apple in the dark"

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Well perhaps i was too quick to judge, i am humble enough to admit that sometimes i jump before looking. I am human, and it is something i should work on improving yes? ( dont answer that unless you are going to be kind)

But please, tell me where i said that nibiru is real and that it definitely existed. If other people already explained it and me asking for support for these claims was misguided then why didn't you just kindly point out the posts where it was clearly explained. Why didn't you just simply say " it has already been explained look for the posts by "this user" and "that user"

But i wasn't addressing you or anyone directly now was i? Nor did i ever claim that i have proof of it either way. Just that nobody is ever able to give me a solid answer either way and that my mind is not made up on the subject. In return I get computer simulations showing that such an object is impossible based off of data that is assumed to be error free and guys showing me ancient artwork and documents that is left open for interpretation. When i start asking " how do we really know we are correct in either situation" i get told that i am uneducated or that i have to prove something when i make no claim either way.


Do you see why that is frustrating or upsetting? To be told that you are thinking about something in the wrong way when at no point do you claim that either side is correct, just that you are unable to know based on the current data. It is maddening.

I know you did not say that it DOES exist. But you are asking for "proof" from either side, yet not wanting to accept what "proof" is given.

On one side, you are being given links to sites and videos that claim it exists, crop circle pictures, ancient statutes, etc.
On the other side, you are being given links to the science of physics, orbital mechanics, and yes, video's of simulations that are using a program who's physics is based upon how orbital mechanics and gravity works.

Then you say, neither is enough "proof" of anything.

Okay, well then the answer for you should be painfully obvious: do your own research.

I'm not being sarcastic in any way, shape or form. I'm very serious. If you don't want to believe my simulation videos: good for you! Nothing should be taken at face value, so I'm not going to get huffy with you about it.
Instead, research the program I'm using, and then if you feel it's based upon proper physics, give things a try yourself. See if you can duplicate my conclusions (or not). That's what science is about.

Don't take anyone's word or video stating that Nibiru is real, exists, and is on it's way here. Again, do your own research into it. You don't have to use any links provided either. You can start your very own search and do your own reading, and then come to whatever conclusion you feel fits or works for you.

I won't force anyone to believe in physics, orbital mechanics and gravity. I'll simply lay it out for them. They can either believe it or go learn on their own.

If someone consistently states that Nibiru exists because we can not know everything (even though we know enough as far as what should happen), or because it exists in a different dimension, or is controlled by alien tech that we have absolutely no understanding of, that's fine. I can't argue with that.
The only thing I can reply with on that line of thought, is that there are pink unicorns out there, who are a very advanced species, and who's technology is so advanced, it's like magic for us. And then ask them to prove me wrong.

However, bottom line is: ATS is a great place and full of information (correct info, bad info, misinfo, disinfo, and info that I don't even know how to classify...), but it should not be your one stop and shop place for it. Again, if you are not satisfied with the answers being given on either side, then:

Do your own research.

Good luck!

All of you arguing with the OP are wasting your time. People like the OP suffer from having all their needs met and/or needing something to happen to take them out of their current reality. Either because they are bored with their life, hate it or simply are just idle too much.

At first Nibiru was interesting to talk about because there was still much to discuss and it was a stomping ground for many who had real scientific interest in it and others simply because they want something to happen/doomsayers.

All of you trying to convince this OP and the people who are eager to buy it because they suffer of the same condition should just move on.

If nibiru existed and it was approaching us right at this moment there is nothing you could do to survive so it is even a moot point to discus it and try to devise survival ideas. Even if you survive it will suck so what is the point.

If the earth was about to be hit by something we have no control over I personally would not want to know since there is nothing I can do to stop it and I would much rather live out my last moments alive in peace rather than being stressed out about it.

This thread is a fools errand and one that is egged on by the idle. Which is the reason why I am even posting on this thread. carry on with this drivel

reply to post by Phage


Where did i say that nibiru is passing through our system on a regular basis? Where did i say that such an object even exists? I said i think it might be possible, but that i do not really know for various reasons NOR DO I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE.

The whole point of that snippet you so eagerly quoted was to show that if there was a nibiru type object on its way to us FOR WHATEVER REASON then we would see it screwing with other things in our solar system before hitting us we are not seeing that and therefore and can consider that reason to believe that nibiru is not real.

Now maybe that wasn't the most factual or accurate explanation but it demonstrated how we could observe something like nibiru and prove that such a thing does not exist (or at least does not exist right now). Or maybe we wouldn't see anything at all because it just simply wouldn't come into contact with other planets. Instead it could MAYBE pass by the other planets and cross paths with ours. Of course we know that this hasn't happened yet (or at all for that matter) because things are largely in order as far as we can see. I never disputed that. I asked you what was it that made you AND THE NIBIRU BELIEVERS So sure of their claims.

You said that a nibiru type object would not be able to exist without messing up our solar system and planet and that if i had a...what was it? Ah yes, A "Modicum" ( Your polysyllabic parlance impresses my monosyllabic faculties) of education that i would know why nibiru was impossible. That was awfully humble of you.

My next door neighbor is a literal rocket scientist. Him and i always talk about what could be real and what isn't real out there. Neither of us honestly believe that there is a nibiru outside of the hypothetical possibilities which themselves are hinged on nothing but pure speculation and supposition.

Now you are telling me that we would not see it and that i am wrong? That what we see in an empirical science does not matter? Make up your mind dude.

You did nothing except make light of my lack of knowledge which i confirmed and said would be a limiting factor in my understanding and asked you to work around that or at least point me in the right direction. You told me i was wrong ( when i never said i was right) and refused to substantiate your own claims with simple reasoning or evidence. You then quoted my attempt to DEBUNK the existence of nibiru style object and told me that i was still wrong. All the while you are running off of this notion that somewhere i made the claim that nibiru was real and on an orbit of some sort. I NEVER MADE THIS CLAIM.

I don't even have to say anything about you personally. Your actions speak louder than any phrase or prose that i could conjure.

I am sure though that you are a well educated man who readily accepts the currently accepted fact and theory. May your life be long and your endeavors fruitful. I look forward to seeing your research papers and the new light they bring into your respective field.

reply to post by votan


Love it, could not have said it better myself.......thank you.

reply to post by SheopleNation

Stereo, That sounds like a reasonable explanation. How did you hear about that from Google if I may ask?

Someone asked Google and they responded. The info has been posted in multiple threads right here at ATS.

I notice an object behind the box near it's border. Why would they stich it where a star cluster or whatever is instead of in a spot that is just empty space? Also, next to the original Lenoid image, there are streaks of black areas that are blocking out entire galaxies.

You could be correct. I am just wondering how you heard this explanation from Google because those blacked out areas always had me curious.

The images are from the DSSS. There is always distortion at the edges of images due to optics. The images are then stitched. One of the options is to average the edges together. A Fourier analysis of that action shows that the image is blurred by averaging. Blurring slight errors due to mismatches at edges leads to artifacts that can be distracting. Sometimes the best thing to do is to leave out artifacts until a better image set is available. That is done by avoiding areas where there are stitching problems. That is the path of least resistance selected by Google.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Well erik i agree with most of your post. and i apologize if i presented myself to you in a way that was angry or hostile. We all need to be careful of our wordings, especially people like me. Also do not confuse my challenging of proof as refutation of the proof. I am someone who is content to accept that things are not 100% knowable. But hey, i am human and am every bit as fallible as the evidence i challenge. I do not delude myself with ideas of Grandeur or authority.

But the problem is that neither side was giving me much proof to begin with. I was 9 times out of ten being told that it was out there and that i just need to look for it. Of course personal research is the most favorable. But when you are making a claim either way you need to provide reason and data to back it up. Nobody shared links with me or told me what post to look at.

I was told " there is a post on the other page that uses a program to show how nibiru would screw things up and why it wouldn't work in our solar system" ( i paraphrase of course) and I got vague descriptors at best and was treated with hostility right from the get go. I asked for links to the science that would help me understand either sides claim and nobody gave me anything.

One guy posted a picture of some dude carved into a rock and brought up a whole bunch of questions that were designed to lead me into "nibiru" as an answer and another side told me that i wasn't educated enough to understand why i was wrong. I build gaming computers for fun and when people are willing to learn how to build systems from me i openly invite any and all questions they have no matter how simple or stupid they may seem to me, the more educated person. I don't get all huffy and puffy and get upset with them when they ask why we are using Conductive materials on a surface with exposed electrical connections. I show them how it works, why we use it and where they can go and what to look for to find more information so they can learn on their own.


Nobody showed me where to go. they just told me that the answers were out there and that i need to look for them.

Now to be fair we do have Google and Encyclopedias, but that doesn't do me any good if i do not know what to look for, and it does me even less good when people tell me to do it on my own with hostility and anger in their tone. If anything it puts me off and makes me want to take the opposite stance just to spite them. But that is me. Other people just become apathetic.

reply to post by MamaJ


The idea that Atlantis was passed down orally for 9000 cannot be demonstrated. There is no way to know this.

The other link simply speculates that there might have been records. Remember that there is about 200 years between Plato and Solon.

reply to post by votan


Yet here you are anyway. It is ironic how some of you self centered people assume that because you have chosen not to discuss the issue of some object some day hitting planet Earth that everyone else who enjoys discussing the what ifs of the Universe should just bow down to your wishes or as you put it, your make believe peace.

A lot of us here understand fully what people like Moore are doing but that doesn't stop our interest in the subject of possible inbound objects that might some day collide with our planet. I bet the majority (including myself) of folks here who did not shoot down the OP's thread don't even believe in Moore's August 17 prediction. It's just more Terrell bullcrap.

With that being said, if you no longer enjoy the topic, or if it brings you peace to not discuss it, then to each their own. However, don't try pathetically to force feed the conclusion that you have came to on the rest of us who still are interested in these subjects, or even more so, maybe have just started to get into it recently.

Talk about mindless drivel, are you the end all, know it all and decider on when the discussion should cease to be discussed? If you don't like it, then take a walk out of this thread. You obviously had enough interest still left that you took your time to post about it and cause waves in your high and mighty enlightenment. Don't get all butt hurt either, cause it's nothing personal. I just get sick and tired of people trying to control what is discussed because different folks are interested in different subjects.

I got no problem with you calling out people on crazy predictions of doom, but please don't lump all the people who enjoy just discussing these cosmic topics together with the nutcase fear mongers because that is just unfair, arrogant, self-serving and down right condescending. Hate to be the one to burst your bubble of drivel sister, but your negative tone begged for a reasonable retort. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by DeathShield


You must not be looking at the wealth of material being presented. Here are some basics to get you started:
1. Sitchin uses "translations" no one in the know accepts
2. Planets can be detected far away
3. There are many thousands of amateur astronomers that detect things all of the time such as impacts on Jupiter
4. Planets reflect light and have a gravitational field that can be detected

There are many chicken littles out there proclaiming the existence of a new planet because
1. They read some animal died
2. They think astronomers would not notice a lens flare in their cheapo cell phone cameras
3. Some tornadoes happened
4. They don't realize that there are many big quakes a year
5. They saw a photo of a crop circle
6. They heard that watermelons exploded in China (I am not kidding)
7. A new computer game shows 2 suns
8. An old movie has 2012 on a car license plate (I am not kidding)
9. They read about a fake Native American prophecy
10. Youtube says it's true
11. JR Moore lies about getting info over lunch
12. Gary Coleman died (I am not kidding)

reply to post by DeathShield

Nibiru does exist. The ancient people have spoken about it.

You told a lie when you wrote that. No ancient people wrote or spoke about a planet called Nibiru.

Please provide evidence that Nibiru does not exist or that it is impossible for a similar or identical object to exist.

The lie of Nibiru begins with a fraud named Sitchin. He gave his fictional planet impossible properties.

If you want to support your original falsehood please show us any ancient people that mention this fake planet invented by Sitchin.

Theres a reason - you can only see it from Antartica.... you can not go there to verify it.

reply to post by stereologist


Stereo, ok then. That's good info to know. Makes me feel a little better even though Google Sky's images are many years old. I do respect a lot of your knowledge here because I think you're an intelligent guy bro. Appreciate the response my friend. ~$heopleNation