Is The S-37 Fighter Up There With The F-22 ?!?!

American Mad Man well put, couldn't have said it better myself. You get my vote for Way Above.
I think that as on now the U.S. has the best Fighter Jet in the world the Raptor, Russia keeps talking but not delivering so until they deliver the Raptor dominates the skies.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

SIBERIAN TIGER


US pilots are better trained and you said something like history proves this just take a look at the Kill ratio over NK between the F-86 and the Mig15 mig15 had better climbing rate but the US dominated the skies then and still do today and will continue to do so for a very long time, i have been to many air museums around the world and for every F-86 that was shot down over korea 10 "Russian" mig 15 were shot down this is not made up and at the end they found out the of the 810 mig15s shot down 700 and some of them were russian pilots

The F-14 which is still a great plane today was released in the early 1970s the russian built the Mig-29 and released it in the mid 1980s and true it could do the Famous Tail slide, "but there is no known real tactical advantage to doing the tail slide" anyways it still didnt have the speed or the Radar and missile guidance system the F-14 did and the mig 29 is 15 yrs newer, and the Mig-29 doesnt even have half the radar range the F-14 has

F-15 all i can say is an ubeaten a2a combat record even in the Gulf war 1 where "Russian" Pilots trained Iraqis to fly the mig-29 and the mig-31 foxhound and even with russias help the Iraqi airforce stood no chance

US has a reputation of having the best Airforce in the world and is recognized by as having the best by all countries which is why everyone is trying to steal our technology, kind of like China stealing the Tech to launch missile from subs underwater they werent smart enough to do it themselves so they steal it. I am in no way bashing chinese people just the china government

Anyways Russia has always released planes to counter US planes at least a decade behind and there aircraft still didnt have the tech and guidance systems the US planes have

So when 2007 comes Russia is going to have enough T-50 to compete with F-15 F-16 F-18 F-22 ????

And if no one minds me asking what is up with the moderator comin in here saying watch the tone, as far as im concernd there is no bad tone here just people not wanting to believe any facts

[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

Originally posted by zakattack

for every F-86 that was shot down over korea 10 "Russian" mig 15 were shot down this is not made up and at the end they found out the of the 810 mig15s shot down 700 and some of them were russian pilots

Could you point to any sources?

During the Korean war, many Russian pilots were aces from World War 2, most of the planes the U.S shot down had Korean pilots.

US has a reputation of having the best Airforce in the world and is recognized by as having the best by all countries which is why everyone is trying to steal our technology, kind of like China stealing the Tech to launch missile from subs underwater they werent smart enough to do it themselves so they steal it. I am in no way bashing chinese people just the china government

How on Earth does the "China stealing" things again come into a thread based on the S-37 and F-22?

I mean, your argument hardly makes any sense. China is stealing submarine technology and therefore U.S has the best airforce in the world.

-----

Don't get me wrong, i think the F-22 is the best plane in the world but some of your arguments are bit iffy.

EDIT: Removed Bold

[edit on 24-3-2005 by rapier28]

Well I agree that China is copying U.S. sub tech but it does not belong in this thread. However have you seen the J-10 look at its specs and plans they are almost identical to the F-16.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Well I agree that China is copying U.S. sub tech but it does not belong in this thread. However have you seen the J-10 look at its specs and plans they are almost identical to the F-16.

The J-10 might be a followup of the Israeli Lavi project that was based on the F-16 but the most you can say is that the J-10 was influenced by the F-16, it's design contains many differences. Now, i'am not an expert in this field but someone else in this forum could probably explain it better then i could.

J-10
external image

F-16


source: globalsecurity

please keep your feets on the ground...

1)the 10-1 sabre kill ratio is propaganda, the true kill ratio was between 4-1/3-1 only 340 migs were destroyed, motly pilote by koreans, please do a litte research.

2)in investigation you dont need always "supercomputers" or "supertechnology", is like the case of the first sattelite, the russians to launch the sputnik didnt need super computers, is basicaly about good ideas

3)the f22 isnt an stealth plane, is supercruiser, it have stealth tech only in details is an adapted stealth (like the f18e, but more advanced), the surfaces are positioned down, and it have looot of congruent angles

4)the raptor proyect could be near of the cancelation, i mean, 600 planes, then 300, now 150.....next????, the point is that the russians dont want to get into the competition, not yet, because is an economical risk.

5) the pasive stealth tech is overrated, it works, but not as most guys think, is more an suport of the ECM than an invisibility cloack, also with low frecuency it dont work (due the expansive lf wave propiety)

6)the j10 isnt a copy of f16 or lavy, is the best airframe combined with unstable design, like the thypoon, rafale, gripen etc...

7)supercomputers in aircraft?????, man those programes are complicated algorithms, but not to use supercomputers, is more like an complex PLC nothing more, the procesors are even slower that my computer!!!

my point was that US has pretty much the best of everything and that thats why everyone is trying to steal it, dont get all bent out of shap cuz i mentioned the word submarine, face it no one is trying to steal russian tech like they are us tech,

Here is the link with the 10-1 kill ratio in the F-86s favor
www.wpafb.af.mil...

.

However this book does not favor US aircraft it does list there weaknesses against some soviet aircraft

And grunt im afraid that the kill ration is higher in the 9-1 to 10-1 ratio And if you go out and buy the book called modern military Aircraft by Robert Jackson and if you would please turn to page 246 and read the first paragraph on the left hand side of the page it says the F-86 was used in the korean war where it established a 10-1 kill ratio and if you would please notice the Last sentence it says Most of which were Russian pilots., likei have said before i have been to many Aircraft museums throughout the world and they all give numbers between 8-1 10-1, dont tell me to do my research, and come in here and talk like you know why the raptor isnt this and isnt that,

Dont ask me the name of it or the Directions on how to get there cuz i dont know But US has one of the most syphictacated Radar sites set up in nevada where the F-22 passed through there almost undetected until it opened up the weapons bay door which of course would give away its position, Of course you going to get some radar return signal from anything flying over but thats the whole point of stealth even birds or rain or even heavely condensed clouds will return some form of the whole point of stealth is to confuse and deceive your enemy.

And the F22 is not about to be cancelled, in the 70s the USAF reported the need for 750 ATF to replace the F-15, and think about what kind of enemy the us was thinkin they were going to face thats right Russia, US was going to need lots of aircraft to protect the US and to Dominate the Skies. but Russia fell then the Amount they needed was dropped to the 400-500 range in 1997, but now the US has a new enemy and it isnt Huge military countries the US is facing terrorists who cowardly hide in other countries, so why build 400-500 F22 raptors when the raptor isnt going to be able to pull osama out of a cave, that raptor money could be spent on humvees and arming troops, it is strictly a budget thing, if the US wanted 700 F-22 they would get it

and you have to think that Congress probably woulnt allow 700 F22 "IF" in the near future US wants to add the Joint Strike Fighter to there Arsenal.

So if stealth doesnt work well then maybe you should go up to the Developers and say "NOPE UH-uh your not doin this right not gonna work" and see what they tell you. and if it doesnt work then why is Russia researching Stealth Tech???????????????

Or maybe your right maybe we should get all the F-4 back that arent stealthy at all and just fly into a country with sophysticated radars

And the whole idea of the supercomputer is to be able to process enemy targets and Info quickly , which to me is a good idea i would rather have that then have a Mig-29 or something like that

[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

Here is the link with the 10-1 kill ratio in the F-86s favor

www.acepilots.com...

i have discused that before, so please make a little more research...

my point was that US has pretty much the best of everything and that thats why everyone is trying to steal it, dont get all bent out of shap cuz i mentioned the word submarine, face it no one is trying to steal russian tech like they are us tech

well, the chinese submarine program is based in russian experience, you sound like an paranoid patriot "everyone try to steal us"...tsss

zakattack
of the 810 mig15s shot down 700 and some of them were russian pilots

That number there is nearly impossible even if 810 mig15's were shot down. It is also not claimed by your source.

The number of mig15's shot down is close to 350.

Korean Aces

The numbers shown above, and used throughout, are claims, and are almost certainly in excess of the actual number of MiGs downed. During the war the USAF pilots claimed over 800 enemy planes. Postwar research revised that figure downward to 379, which closely matches the admitted Russian losses of 345. The Air Force has not disclosed, perhaps does not fully know, which pilot claims to revise, so the contemporary numbers stand, although, as in all claims for aerial victories, the claims exceed the other side's documented losses.

Koreanwar.com

the U.S. Air Force sustained 1,198 deaths in combat. Of these,
968, or 80%, were fighter pilots. Some 112 of them were F-86 pilots

The 800 number is claimed by the U.S airforce and as with all claims by airforces during a war, it is grossly exaggerated. This is not new, Luffewaffe (spelling) claims during the Battle of Britain were also exaggerated and so were the U.S claims over Japanese fighters across the Pacific.

Russian source

The 64th was secretly sent to fight in the Korean War in Nov
1950. They did quite well, shooting down 1,300 UN aircraft of all types
while losing only 345 of their own. MiG-15s piloted by Soviets outscored
the F-86 guys at around 2:1. However, MiGs in the hands of North Korean
and Chinese pilots were knocked down at something like 13:1 by the USAF.
There doesn't seem to be any Chinese or Korean aces.

Soviet pilots were aces of the second world war, some of them were Heroes of the Soviet Union before they even went into the Korean war.

grunt2
well, the chinese submarine program is based in russian experience

Yes, the new Chinese class of submarines is influenced heavily by the Russian Kilos.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by rapier28]

Grunt do you pay attention at all to what happens, No crap sherlock the China subs are russian built cause if china governemtn built them they would probably sink, But if you read closely i said they stole tech to learn how to launch missile from submarines that were underwater

My whole point of all this is that there are some people here who almost cant seem to wait for the moment when china and us goes to war and that there gonna walk all over the US and that US planes arent good enough.

Anyways ill probably get Flamed for saying this, but if you believe in God and the Bible, you will have to do alot of reading and interpreting but the Bible says the king of the South is the US Great Britain world power and that soon there will be a king of the North who will go forth in a great rage to annihilate many and that there would be a pushing and a shoving between the King of the South and the King of the North and that the King of the North would backed into a corner and forced to surrender. but we dont know who the king of the north is yet so who knows maybe its china maybe its India and china or maybe its NK,Iran Syria

The bible fortold the fall of many kings such as Germany while under Hitlers rule and then the fall of Russia

But oh well If china and US go to war ill be very happy here in canada, actually i will be moving back to the states in a few years

[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

Originally posted by zakattack
Anyways ill probably get Flamed for saying this, but if you believe in God and the Bible, you will have to do alot of reading and interpreting but the Bible says the king of the South is the US Great Britain world power and that soon there will be a king of the North who will go forth in a great rage to annihilate many and that there would be a pushing and a shoving between the King of the South and the King of the North and that the King of the North would backed into a corner and forced to surrender. but we dont know who the king of the north is yet so who knows maybe its china maybe its India and china or maybe its NK,Iran Syria
[edit on 24-3-2005 by zakattack]

I'am not an expert in Geography or the Bible but last time i checked the globe (in like year 5), i remember that the U.S, Britain, Russia and China are all in the Northern Hemisphere

Am i missing something here?

Mabye us in Australia would rise up and defeat everyone!

U.S. didn't win the air war but the ground war in Korea, when U.S. fought korean and Chinies MiGs U.S. shot down 231 of them, after Soviets came in to the war VVS shot down 1106 F-80/84/86's and U.S. shot down only 335 MiG15's VVS lost only 10 MiG 15's to mechanical failures while U.S. Airforce admittes it lost over 945 F86's alone to mech failures, U.S. lost the air war against VVS but won against Chinese and Korean MiGs thats why the war ended in a "STALEMATE" till this very day 03/25/2005 there are lots of sites that talk about this run by actual exKorean war pilot vets www.korean-war.com...

[edit on 25-3-2005 by SiberianTiger]

US and Great Britain in the bible, I don't think so retard

The F/A-22 is the most advanced fighter jet flying right now. Until a better one is delivered to other countries like I said before until them the Raptor dominates the skies.
And the Raptors stealth is better than other currents fighters.

While not invisible, the F-22's radar cross section is comparable to the radar cross sections of birds and bees. Compared to other current fighters, the F-22 is much more difficult to detect.

The F-15 has a perfect A2A kill ratio 105-0, and the F-15's radar cross section was the same as a door's.

Raptor Stealth

Low rate production was initially scheduled to begin in FY99. The aircraft production rate was to gradually increase to 36 aircraft per year in FY 2004, and will continue that rate until all 339 aircraft had been built (projected to be complete in 2013). Initial Operational Capability of one operational squadron was slated for December 2005.

F/A-22 Deployment

So As you can see there is none of this 150 plane BS the Pentagon as approved 339 Raptors to be produced. The First Squadron with 16 Fighters will be operational this coming December.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by WestPoint23]

F-15 doesn't have a 105 kill thats a lie a U.S. F-15 was shot down by Iraq in gulf war 1 in a2a fight

The King of North and King of south does not mean that in a geopraghical sense, The bible refers to the king of the South and king of the north only as a way of Indentifying which king is to rise and fall of the world

And no the Bible does not say The US and great britain

The king of the south as man knows is the Anglo American world power only because in the bible it talks of Two powers that wule the world until God steps in

In the bible it talks about the rise and fall of the German empire and the communists bloc
and it fortells the The fall of the next King of the north who has yet to rise

i know it sounds wierd but im not retarded

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
F-15 doesn't have a 105 kill thats a lie a U.S. F-15 was shot down by Iraq in gulf war 1 in a2a fight

Do you have a Link? I am sure the F-15 has been shot down once or twice, but never in A2A combat.

It is unbeaten untill you can show me otherwise.

I very much doubt that the UK is the king of the south. I think europe is going lose power. First they will gain power but the demografic ageing will take its toll. Us will fall to eventually i think that the peak of theire power is around now. China will take its place.

The U.S. power peak is defiantly not now, and yes China will gain power until just like the cold war there are two superpowers again. Now one of them will eventually fall but which one will it be I don't know.