Is The S-37 Fighter Up There With The F-22 ?!?!

I wasn't there, hence I don't know the full truth but from what I hear from people who where there, it was a joke.

1, the Indian excercise is major case for the F-22, the Air Force didn't want the F-15 to win by anymeans, they were wanted the F-15 to be killed with a horrible ratio. You may or may not know but the F-22 has a lot of pressure in congress and they have set goals for it too meet these last four years, because nut swingers in congress want to stop funding for the project, so the F-15 lossing may not be what you think. Why do you think no other country has a Stealth aircraft, it's not cause they don't have Ram as we see the Russians do. There is more to stealth then anyone here will ever know in electronic warfare, there are things about the F-22 electronics that the Russian couterparts could and can never come close too.

But I progress the thing is I have flown an F-15 C for the last 4 years, and let me tell you the craft is not a pilots craft, it's cockpit is # and it doesn't have fly by wire, the F-22 is a better Pilots plane, and I have spent over a 1,000 sim hours with it, many times beating Su-37's with ease. And as I see it the Russian don't have the electronics or funds needed to proudce a full sleath

Strike Eagle

I dont wish to cast aspersions on your abilities as an aviator, but dude, I hope your accuracy with your fingers is better in a cockpit than it is with a keyboard. You must have been very proud to find out that you were going to be amongst the first to get your hands on the F-22, the next generation 'sleath' fighter.

F22 has Supercruise. It can criuise without afterburners. It can also detect, aquire and shoot LOOONG before the S-37 even knows its there. So better thrust vectoring is moot.

So now we have a fighter than can cruise above moch 1 and see further than anything out there. And NOT be seen at the same time. Thats as deadly as it gets. The first indication by any opposing pilot to a F22 would get that they have been engaged is the missle itself. By then, its too late.

I should also state that the F22 can fire and forget. Add that to the above stated abilities and its virtually unstoppable A pair of F22's could target, fire on, and get away from many enemeies before they were even detected.

Its not that dogfighting isnt important, but its not the way planes fight each other anymore. Whoever can fire first, usually is the winner. The the F22 fires first better than anything out there.

I think that Rajkhalsur2004 (thats from memory, apologies if I have got it wrong) made the definitive post on the Cope India excercise, no one has yet convincingly refuted his argument IMHO.

Dima - your roght - the F/A-22 is all propaganda! You got us!

In fact, it doesn't even exist - all the pics of it are photoshoped!

Also, it isn't stealth - that is if it were actually a real air craft.

Can't supercruise either - again, even if it were a real aircraft.

Propaganda propaganda propaganda!!!!!!

Just keep saying it Dima - untill you actually believe it

wow, u're retarded if u think i go that far, lol, seriously, thats emberassing if i would have ever said that, and it just made u look even more of an idiot, the way you interpret my posts, the F-22 is a good plane, i have said that a lot now, frigg, i ahven't heard u guys say anything about russian aircraft, so u have no right of accusing me of being biased, anyways, of course your going to down Su-37's in flight simulators, their friggin flight simulators, wat the hell, u can't rely on them, jus like a PS2 game, u won't say an F-22 is better than this plane because its score is higher in the game lol, and yea, the F-22 is stealthy, can supercruise, and its avionics suite is the equivalent of two Crey supercomputers, yes, okay, the stealth is WAAAYYYYYY-over-rated, thats all people talk about, its stealthy so it'll get the first shot, no doubt its stealthy, but there isn't a garaunteed chance that it will get the first shot like everyone claims, russian missiles have crazy-ass range, look at the KS-172, with a range of 300-400 kms

supercruising, there's no fault in that, u guys should be very proud that u can supercruise at Mach 1.5, really, i'm not being sarcastic, thats something that isn't over-rated, and so is its avioncs suite, its incredible, because it needs to be, or else that plane will crash beyond recovery most of the power deals with controlling the plane and the FCS which means it will get a lock-on first

the only thing i wanted to comment on is the stealth, everything else of the F-22 is awesome, except the price, OMFG, thats one costly cow

I Assure EVERYONE here with a capitol A that Strike Eagle is NOT a U.S. Airforce piolt but a civilian observer of this thread!

Originally posted by SiberianTiger
I Assure EVERYONE here with a capitol A that Strike Eagle is NOT a U.S. Airforce piolt but a civilian observer of this thread!

What makes you say that

And yes,simulators are nothing,it means nothing when i can shoot down a Raptor with a Chinese MiG in CNC Generals,after all,even a simulator is just a game.

the classical tale, "we lost cope india for more f22 funds".

strike eagle, your talking as an patriotic salesman but not as a pilot

dima ,your exagerating

again the russian stealth pakfa plane depends of the f22 "sucess" the russians are not stupids to make an huge investment (in production plant) for an unexistent market, so they are working in plasma-stealth pods, ram spray-lamines, etc...,we must see if the raptor will enter in service in the 2010.

anyway, some MODERN speculations of the pakfa????

[edit on 9-12-2004 by grunt2]

Originally posted by Dima
wow, u're retarded if u think i go that far, lol, seriously, thats emberassing if i would have ever said that, and it just made u look even more of an idiot, the way you interpret my posts, the F-22 is a good plane, i have said that a lot now, frigg, i ahven't heard u guys say anything about russian aircraft, so u have no right of accusing me of being biased, anyways, of course your going to down Su-37's in flight simulators, their friggin flight simulators, wat the hell, u can't rely on them, jus like a PS2 game, u won't say an F-22 is better than this plane because its score is higher in the game lol, and yea, the F-22 is stealthy, can supercruise, and its avionics suite is the equivalent of two Crey supercomputers, yes, okay, the stealth is WAAAYYYYYY-over-rated, thats all people talk about, its stealthy so it'll get the first shot, no doubt its stealthy, but there isn't a garaunteed chance that it will get the first shot like everyone claims, russian missiles have crazy-ass range, look at the KS-172, with a range of 300-400 kms

supercruising, there's no fault in that, u guys should be very proud that u can supercruise at Mach 1.5, really, i'm not being sarcastic, thats something that isn't over-rated, and so is its avioncs suite, its incredible, because it needs to be, or else that plane will crash beyond recovery most of the power deals with controlling the plane and the FCS which means it will get a lock-on first

the only thing i wanted to comment on is the stealth, everything else of the F-22 is awesome, except the price, OMFG, thats one costly cow

In bold, I think that's what everyone is getting at Dima, even if Russian missiles could fire 300-400 miles, it wouldn't matter. The thing people are trying to tell you is how can you shoot at a target you can't pick up, and even when you pick up the target, the chances aren't too great that your missile will be able to properly lock on to the F-22. So, you may see it but you can't shoot it down because your missiles will go off course. Even if the F-22's stealth is overatted, it is still a better plane than the Su-37 in terms of combat.

its not like the plane is invisbile, the way u guys talk about the F-22, its as if its an absolutely invisible plane, holy crak, jeeze, u can jus switch to a different frequency and range, and there u go, clear as a bell, an F-22 won't be able to kock off one of those abbies, and wat do u mean, u mean the lock-on won't be as great, buddy, once it locks-on its done

how am i exaggerating grunt, the stealth isn't as incredible as everyone makes it seem, its good, but not incredible

Originally posted by grunt2
we must see if the raptor will enter in service in the 2010.
[edit on 9-12-2004 by grunt2]

The Raptor is already in service buddy. Today. Right now.

Originally posted by Dima
its not like the plane is invisbile, the way u guys talk about the F-22, its as if its an absolutely invisible plane, holy crak, jeeze, u can jus switch to a different frequency and range,

[sarcasm]Geee Dima you must have figured it out [/sarcasm]. But the odds ar that has been tried over Iraq as well as Kosovo and they never were able to pick up even the 1st gneration F-117 let alone a B-2 or F-22. If just changeing the frquencies made the difference, then stealth would be of no use.

What about that one that got shot down?
I thought the RN tracked a B2 over scotland?

Originally posted by devilwasp
What about that one that got shot down?
I thought the RN tracked a B2 over scotland?

The F-117 that was shot down is an intersting case, and has been discussed in serveal threads. AWST did a analysis of it as well.

1) It used the same route several nights in a row
2) Jamming support was too far away.
3) It was under the cload cover and as siluetted against the clouds.
4) the tolerences needed to maintain stealth in the F-117 is brutal and even a screw not being flush can muck up the works.

I have not heard that a B-2 was tracked, however, they are not invisable so its possible esp if it traveled really close to radar site. One thing I do wonder how the high powered X Band being built for he missile shield would do against a B-2

Yea sry, but I'm typeing on a new mac lab top, the keyboard doesn't agree with me, it's too flat.

First SiberianTiger please come down to Langley, I would love to meet you and show you that I am indeed an Officer in the US Airforce.

Second you are comparing a US AirForce sim to PS2 games, really come on. Our (USAF) simulators use info from all the DIOT&E testing flights that have been done at Edwards, it uses all information known or estimated about unknown crafts such as the Su-27.

Moving on I sound like a salesman, well I am one in a way because the USAF has had to sell this project to congress for the last 16 years, so in a way I have come to know much about the F-22's upside, I know it is not free of error, but I do belive it is the best piece of Airplane made in the Us or any where for that matter.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Strike Eagle]

Originally posted by FredT


The F-117 that was shot down is an intersting case, and has been discussed in serveal threads. AWST did a analysis of it as well.

1) It used the same route several nights in a row
2) Jamming support was too far away.
3) It was under the cload cover and as siluetted against the clouds.
4) the tolerences needed to maintain stealth in the F-117 is brutal and even a screw not being flush can muck up the works.

I have not heard that a B-2 was tracked, however, they are not invisable so its possible esp if it traveled really close to radar site. One thing I do wonder how the high powered X Band being built for he missile shield would do against a B-2

Yeah that is rather interesting but those seem to be sensible conclusions.
If i remember correctly it was a type 23 , dont take it as any where near 100% solid evidence , that tracked it and they tracked it with radar stations and such all across scotland, you know when it went out of ones range the other picked it up.
Hmm that is mabye a question good enough for a thread?

The Raptor is already in service buddy. Today. Right now.

its an pre-service like in the f104 history

[edit on 10-12-2004 by grunt2]

Dima you said that f22 stealth capacities are VERY OVERRATED, well i agreed with you 100%, remember in stealth mode the f22 cant use the doppler radar, and it depends mainly on awacs, that reduce the shoot range, to find and destroy an f22 depends on tactics, radars, rwrs, also the detection range is not soooo reduced ,and again ram dont work at all frecuencies, but the stealth-ecm combo is a very good defence

f22 works better than the f15 at heigh (by the variable-low bypass turbofan-turbojet), in bvr thats an very apreciated advantage, it have better radar, avionics, supercruiser, etc...

strike eagle, sims suck, any respected pilot (or officer,comandant, or anything) knows that

the f22 cost/performance balance is negative, with an plane with few weapons keeping in the sky, the accurate of the amraan is not 95%, (maybe against an stupid simply target), today medium range aams kill rate against a no maneuvre medium speed targed and without ecm is between 70-80% or less (for russian and american medium range missiles, but also depends og the range launch)

plasma is the only true answer for stealth it works good against high frecuency (absortion-save reflection) and it works good at low frecuency (refraction), thats the reason of the russian skepticism, but an ram-geometry-plasma combo works better

FredT

The F-117 that was shot down is an intersting case, and has been discussed in serveal threads. AWST did a analysis of it as well.

ohhhh comon....thats not analysis those are just excuses, all the fly rutes were very carefull studied and supported with that nato huge infrastructure, thats the reason of the low rate shootdown of all fighters-bombers (but also some shutdowns were hidden as techincal problems -like in any war-)

First to "Fret T" there was NO clouds over Budjenovci the Pentagon fully agknowledged that it was shot out of the sky by two SAM's specificaly Old Soviet era SA-3 or SA-6, now to STRIKE EAGLE what is your call sign so when I get to Langley they know who I'm looking for?

[edit on 10-12-2004 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 10-12-2004 by SiberianTiger]