Witness: Someone let gunman inside Colorado movie theater

To the OP, and I know this has probably been posted, forgive but my time is limited so I couldn't go through it all ..

However.. police stated early on that they found the exit door propped open.. I think we'll find, and it's already a pretty popular idea.. that the shooter himself was in the audience, faked like he got a phone call, got up and walked to the exit.. propped it open, went to his car to put on his gear and then re-entered via the propped open door.

Why fake a phone call? .. it's less suspicious than just walking out the exit.. if you fake a call then you look like you're just trying to be courteous .. his car was in fact parked by the exit and from what I've read, he's said he purchased a ticket for the movie so it stands to reason it was him .. it makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by skepticconwatcher

 

Now there is a great example of thinking outside the box. Assuming it was a sizable and durable cellphone, the might just work. Some of those doors do close harder than others though. If it was a weak spring, even a piece of cardboard would do it.

edit on Sun, 22 Jul 2012 02:12:16 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Easy-peasy...hold the latch open and slide in a coin to jam the mechanism...done it myself.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Also here's an interesting picture I found which is relevant to this discussion:

What is your source for this diagram? The gear found at the end of the building was probably tossed from a speeding car, imo.

As discussed in other threads on this, the majority of reports say they were fifteen minutes into the movie, so the person quoted in the OP was very wrong about the movie having "just started".

Therefore nothing else that person states can be considered credible.

Secondly, he could have been acting alone, because it is VERY EASY to prop a fire exit door open, I should know, I spent over ten years in security where the main entry for burglaries were fire exits, either forced open (very easy to do actually) or propped open by staff during the day.

If the door is a common push-bar door with bolts at the top and bottom, they are almost designed not to close completely once opened. The bolts release to allow the door to close to the point of the frame, with the bolts preventing it from closing completely.

If this is a standard fire exit door all he would have needed to do is push the bar, walk out and allow the door to close back with the bolts holding it open against the outside of the door frame.

This would not allow a lot of light through, it would look almost completely closed from the inside, and he could simply get back in whenever he chose.

I think people are clutching at straws because they WANT to believe that he was not working alone, but unless we know details such as how long he was outside, what he was wearing, how long it would have taken him to prepare etc, we cannot come to conclusions based on a door.

There is no doubt, in my opinion, that he did go out through that door, or someone did. People remember that specifically because it is a no-no, it's considered bad behavior, it's something noteworthy.

We can't assume it was or wasn't him based on whether the door was held open by tape, a rock, or by the bolts. We need to know the timings of this, and details such as what he was wearing, to know whether it was LIKELY he was acting alone or had assistance.

Originally posted by starviego

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Also here's an interesting picture I found which is relevant to this discussion:

What is your source for this diagram? The gear found at the end of the building was probably tossed from a speeding car, imo.

The gas mask was either at the far right or far left exit door that is not recessed and does not have an overhang above it. As seen in this picture:

photos.denverpost.com...

It doesn't matter whether it's the right hand far door or the left hand far door, it's a long way from where the exit door was and where his car was parked. If you just study the pics you can locate several items relative to key points (such as the exit door and his car).

I hope you're not saying a passing car came through the back parking lot of the theater and pitched a gas mask out of the window on its way through.

Nothing in the official story says the shooter ran down to the end to the building, tossed the mask and some other stuff, and then ran back down to his car to be arrested. So how did that gas mask end up so far away?
I think another participant ran out of the theatre, got in a car that was waiting for him, then threw that gear out of his car as they sped out of the lot.

I find it odd on why do they have the Century 16 movie theatre lights on outside, there wont be any movies there in the forseeable future....

reply to post by starviego


I agree, and the following blog presents my suspicions and belief about what happened quite perfectly:

Best Theory Yet

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


that's what I meant... wrong wording..
just look at the his FB profile pic


I just don't see how the POI went to being inconsequential. i smell BS

Originally posted by starviego
Nothing in the official story says the shooter ran down to the end to the building, tossed the mask and some other stuff, and then ran back down to his car to be arrested. So how did that gas mask end up so far away?
I think another participant ran out of the theatre, got in a car that was waiting for him, then threw that gear out of his car as they sped out of the lot.

So then, where is the shooter's gas mask?

Perhaps, I wonder, the shooter left out of the door he came in from, ran around the building with the intent of either getting to the front of the theater (lots of people milling about to shoot) or perhaps to escape off to the field to the east, but once he got to the end of the building, saw the massive number of police descending on the place, knew that his "bomb in the apartment" diversion hadn't worked, and tossed the mask aside and went back to his car (perhaps to try and ditch his gear, or maybe to try and blend in with police, as noted by one report.)

I suspect that he had no intention of dying, so when he saw that the police were incoming in sufficient numbers to end his life, the game was over.

Picture here of the police station (upper right) and theatre (lower left) and the route inbound. You'll note that, until he got to the end of the building, he couldn't see what was coming (might have heard it, but couldn't see it.)



Google map of area of picture (zoom in to see police dept and theatre in greater detail)

reply to post by SeeReeS


yep...

that is the best theory so far..

nice catch!!

willyloman.wordpress.com... /

we at ATS are pretty damn good at picking things apart..

but this guy does a great job of it..

we should recruit this guy..

Based on this map, I'm now of the opinion that James Holmes didn't do any of the shooting at all. He went into the movie theater, received a phone call and opened the exit as told, left the building and sat in his car. Gunman who is by all witness accounts shorter than James Holmes comes in, does the shooting and leaves out the same door. He gets outside, immediately strips out of his gear and gets into a car which is waiting with the ignition running in the position right where the helmet and gear were found. He speeds off to the right side of the building and realizes he still has the gas mask in the car with him and tosses it out the window as he rounds the corner. James Holmes sits in the car like he was told to do and takes the fall like a good patsy always does.

Originally posted by zackforester
Based on this map, I'm now of the opinion that James Holmes didn't do any of the shooting at all. He went into the movie theater, received a phone call and opened the exit as told, left the building and sat in his car. Gunman who is by all witness accounts shorter than James Holmes comes in, does the shooting and leaves out the same door. He gets outside, immediately strips out of his gear and gets into a car which is waiting with the ignition running in the position right where the helmet and gear were found. He speeds off to the right side of the building and realizes he still has the gas mask in the car with him and tosses it out the window as he rounds the corner. James Holmes sits in the car like he was told to do and takes the fall like a good patsy always does.

That's ridiculous.

What is Holmes' motivation to take the fall?

How did the car with the "real shooter" in it get away with all those cops incoming, where they can see the car coming out of the back every step of the way?

reply to post by adjensen


1. Holmes was doped.

2. Shooting starts at 12:35. Shooting takes 60-90 seconds. Shooter is outside, stripping off gear. In 30 seconds he's in his car and driving at 12:37. First 911 call goes out at 12:39. Police response time wasn't instant. You can be out of a parking lot in 30 seconds if you want to be. Shooter had 3 and half minutes to leave the theater before police showed up.

Originally posted by zackforester
reply to post by adjensen

 

1. Holmes was doped.

2. Shooting starts at 12:35. Shooting takes 60-90 seconds. Shooter is outside, stripping off gear. In 30 seconds he's in his car and driving at 12:37. First 911 call goes out at 12:39. Police response time wasn't instant. You can be out of a parking lot in 30 seconds if you want to be.

edit on 22-7-2012 by zackforester because: (no reason given)

Well, there's no indication of #1, but we shall see. Your #2 makes some big assumptions, the biggest of which is no one calling 911 for four minutes, two minutes of which no one is firing anything. That seems incredibly unlikely, I would guess that someone (guy in the projection booth, maybe -- we know someone set off the fire alarm to clear the other theatres) would have called 911 within a minute of the commencement of firing, so the 12:35 start time is likely wrong.

Since the exit path of any car from the back (going that way) would have been in full visibility of any incoming police car, they would definitely have to be out of the lot in 30 seconds, without anyone noticing them. You really think a car driving at high speeds out of a parking lot filled with nervous people wouldn't be noticed?

Originally posted by detachedindividual
As discussed in other threads on this, the majority of reports say they were fifteen minutes into the movie, so the person quoted in the OP was very wrong about the movie having "just started".

To be fair 'just started' COULD mean anything from 15 seconds to 15 minutes. It's a vague phrase.

reply to post by adjensen


How big do you think the parking lot is? It's maybe 150 yards from the back corner of the building to the road. Doing 15 MPH you cover 150 yards in about 20 seconds. And the timing isn't mine. It's according to the Washington Post.

Depending on how long it took him to do the shooting, the gunman had 4 1/2-5 minutes to get out of gear and away from the scene. If the car is waiting with the engine running this is an easy feat.

Originally posted by zackforester
Based on this map, I'm now of the opinion that James Holmes didn't do any of the shooting at all. He went into the movie theater, received a phone call and opened the exit as told, left the building and sat in his car. Gunman who is by all witness accounts shorter than James Holmes comes in, does the shooting and leaves out the same door. He gets outside, immediately strips out of his gear and gets into a car which is waiting with the ignition running in the position right where the helmet and gear were found. He speeds off to the right side of the building and realizes he still has the gas mask in the car with him and tosses it out the window as he rounds the corner. James Holmes sits in the car like he was told to do and takes the fall like a good patsy always does.

An interesting angle.

Still waiting for the CCTV footage. What about victim DNA on the killer/fall guy's clothing, that's one way of proving it right? If your theory is true, he would have neither ballistic residue nor blood on him (from some accounts the gun man apparently shot at point blank, but even that is in dispute.)

reply to post by mr-lizard


By their refusal to release a mug shot, I'm under the impression that he didn't have a drop of blood on him and was still in the Joker costume he wore into the movie theater, but like you said, we'll have to see.

Originally posted by zackforester
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

By their refusal to release a mug shot, I'm under the impression that he didn't have a drop of blood on him and was still in the Joker costume he wore into the movie theater, but like you said, we'll have to see.

edit on 22-7-2012 by zackforester because: (no reason given)

willyloman.wordpress.com... /

^ This blog is interesting. It even shows the locations of security cameras. So why no images? Odd eh?