Gun laws in the USA,,,

Originally posted by SaltireWarrior
Right okay I've read this thread and to the Americans proclaiming about how our ban on guns is useless because of our "mass stabbings" you CLEARLY have no idea.

I live in what could be considered to be on the roughest parts of the UK and i've never ever seen anyone get stabbed, never seen anyone threatned to get stabbed or anything.

How exactly would you go about a "mass stabbing" because I imagine running into a cinema and stabbing a few people before the masses in the cinema decided to over power the 1 guy with a knife would be a pretty spectacular failure.

Okay and go tell the 3 month old baby and 6 year old girls parents why guns should be permitted...

Guns should be banned all over the world. They allow dangerous people easy access to dangerous weapons.

Honest to god wtf do you guys expect and why are you always so suprised when you get your anual mass shooting?! If some nutcase can buy a dangerous weapon over the counter there is OBVIOUSLY going to be these types of murders!

And you claim about your god damn amendment... Let it go these laws were written centuries ago. Disarm the people and disarm the police. Yes it will take a few decades for gun control to be at an effective level, but in the long run it will be worth it.

It does amuse me though. Statistically, one of the stupidest countries on earth have no gun controls...

Let me ask you something, you ban the guns and what is stopping some nut from looking up "how to make a bomb" on the internet and using that instead of an assault rifle? Sure the knife might not work, but then again the man did throw tear gas into the audience before firing.

The fact is, if you have a nut that is hell bent on killing people, you're not going to stop him. That is the sad reality of the situation. You can't ban knives, bombs, rocks, stones, glass, etc. etc. Anything can be used to kill. The only defense that the common person has in these situations is to be armed to defend themselves. I love the idea that movie theatres are now banning masks. As if some serial killer is going to stop everything he's attempting to do because he read the sign on the front that say "no masks".

The 2nd ammendment, no matter how old it is, was put in place so that the common man could defend himself against his government. It's not in place so that people can get drunk and go huntin' with their buddies. Please, for the love of God, open a history book.

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by rockledr
reply to post by EqualizerUK

 

You claim you were in the British military, but you say a 5.56mm is ultra powerful? You are severely misinformed and have no clue about weapons. If you were military all you did was push a pencil. Do some research and get off the US about our gun laws. Keep your opinion in Europe.

You have no clue what your talking about you hobbyist!

Actually, I would be the hobbyist here.
I am fat old and retired, the only recreation I have is hobbies.
Any guess at which one is my top hobby?
You bet, and it gives me plenty of time and rounds to compare.
I know a 5.56 is barely just enough to get the job done as compared to many of the choices.

You are right. 5.56 is a varmint round. The us military uses it because it has little recoil is pretty accurate and as a very low learning curve to get good at shooting. I'd much rather have a Saiga in 7.62 x 39 or even their semi .308 with a 25 round mag. THats what I'd rather have. 5.56 is not ultra powerful.

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by rockledr
reply to post by EqualizerUK

 

You claim you were in the British military, but you say a 5.56mm is ultra powerful? You are severely misinformed and have no clue about weapons. If you were military all you did was push a pencil. Do some research and get off the US about our gun laws. Keep your opinion in Europe.

You have no clue what your talking about you hobbyist!

Hobbyist? I have a documented 23 years in the US Army. I also have several trips to Afghanistan and a few other countries. You have no clue about what you speak. If you would like to know about some of my hobbyist experience read the book Outlaw Platoon by Sean Parnell. Otherwise keep your english opinion in europe where it belongs. US citizens don' take kindly to outsiders butting into our affairs.

reply to post by rockledr


Hey just checked out Outlaw Platoon on amazon. THat was a serious outfit to be involved in. Man some of the worst gunfights in the afghan/pak border happened to these guys. Gunna get the book. Thanks for turning me on to it!

I bought a gun after reading this thread. A berretta 21

reply to post by BASSPLYR


The Platoon did an excellent job. We had one Soldier killed by an IED. We had lots of wounded but we killed no civilians and lots of bad guys. Sean did aa great job mixing the battles with the personal emotions and how young and old Soldiers deal with the inhumanity and conflict.

reply to post by rockledr


Right on. I look forward to enjoying the book.

I had a friend in afghanistan. He was in a M-track (I think) vehicle when an IED went off. One minute he's in the back of the vehicle with his squadmates, next thing he remembers is waking up in a hospital bed Germany with both sides of his hips shattered and they are telling him he's been in a coma for two weeks, he was involved in an IED incident and everyone but him on the M-track died. He was spared due to where he was sitting at the moment the IED went off and some part of the vehicle shielded him from the brunt of the blast. But the IED blew the M-Track in half.

It's been two years now and he is walking with a cane and getting better every day. Just had a few beers with him on the 4th. Were going on a fishing trip in october in the sierras, so were helping our buddy get on with his life and heal. Were damned proud of him too. BUt man I sure have some respect for you guys who spent time in afghanistan and pakistan.

Originally posted by bjax9er
the question isnt what will happen to crime and murder rates if guns were banned.

the question is, what will happen to government if guns are banned.?

first it would take 100 years to eradicate guns completely.

second, we would loose all of our rights outlined in the constitution.

third, we would look a lot like countries in europe. broke and socialists

fourth, our sovereignty would be challenged.

i call for a gun ownership mandate, or pay a tax.
hows that sound lefties?

How would you loose all your rights??? you don't use yours guns now to show you have rights etc ...this isnt the wild west!!

Hows that rightie??

Originally posted by phroziac
I bought a gun after reading this thread. A berretta 21

Gun for you i support the fact that you arm yourself with a sensible pistol and not the military style weapons some of these crack pots are buying...

E

Originally posted by rockledr

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by rockledr
reply to post by EqualizerUK

 

You claim you were in the British military, but you say a 5.56mm is ultra powerful? You are severely misinformed and have no clue about weapons. If you were military all you did was push a pencil. Do some research and get off the US about our gun laws. Keep your opinion in Europe.

You have no clue what your talking about you hobbyist!

Hobbyist? I have a documented 23 years in the US Army. I also have several trips to Afghanistan and a few other countries. You have no clue about what you speak. If you would like to know about some of my hobbyist experience read the book Outlaw Platoon by Sean Parnell. Otherwise keep your english opinion in europe where it belongs. US citizens don' take kindly to outsiders butting into our affairs.

Is this forum an American only forum ??? no ....do you own the ATS site ?? no...you could say that you are base idea for the character Jason Bourne... that doesn't mean its true...

Your last comment about " your not welcome here telling us Anerican's what to do"....do you really wonder why people are sick and tired of that attitude??

E

Originally posted by Lannister
I'm really sick of Europeans telling us how we need to govern our country especially those from the UK. The Brits are the reason we even have a 2nd ammendment to begin with. The nerve of Pierce Morgan to sit up there and tell us we need to be disarmed. Get the hell back on whatever boat you came from with your 5 people that actually watch your garbage show and go back to England and worship your queen.

Worry about the laws in your own damn country.

Ohhhh so its ok when you need our backing to invade the middle east but when we tell you that your laws are old and need a rework you hark back to over a hundred years ago??

Great argument....

LOL E

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by 1MrMarc
reply to post by EqualizerUK

 

I don't plan on shooting soldiers and police officers if they ever come to get my guns, and I also don't plan to voluntarily turn them in.

This is honorable, but how do you know whether the OTHER person who owns guns thinks the same as you?
Your neighbor might be a total nut-job, ready to blow anyone up if he sees his liberty in danger. (Which sometimes could be a irrational, delusional thing as well...do you think ALL people in the US (lol, lol) are rational? )

Do you think that ANY gun owner thinks like you, responsible etc...or would you ADMIT that some people have guns who should never have them in the first place? You will likely not go on a spree shooting random people like a maniac...but maybe just a block away from you you have some psycho already planning the next shooting - with guns he can easily buy at walmart or online. AND WHO THE FRACK controls this and their eligibility etc. to have guns?

Exactly.....There are some real nut jobs in the USA that own guns , you just have to look on this thread to see that ....its very scary!

E

OP I agree with you entirely, American gun laws are just totally irrational and straight up stupid to us Britt’s.

The Americans on ATS will almost all disagree with you, they will tell you that the gun is just a “tool”. To them I would point out that the gun is just a tool of death, its only purpose is to kill either in defence or in offense, killing is wrong, guns kill people, guns are wrong. To me it really is that simple. Others will say that guns actually save life’s, they will no doubt point out that only last week a armed gun man was fought off by an old man in an Internet café. To some extent yes they do have a point guns used in defence can save life’s. I however would love to see the statistics for guns saving lives verses guns taking lives, I do believe that the statistics may show that guns do kill more people than they ever save. In any case if gun laws were tightened in the states then there would be less guns on the streets and therefore there would be less people to use them for crimes.

For the record I am not talking about a overnight ban, I am talking for a gradual change in law, something that would take a generation to change in America. There is no way in hell that it would ever be possible for any one president to ever change American views towards guns overnight it would take years.

Us Britt’s have to remember that although our friends views on gun control over the pond may seem moronic and uncivilised they have been raised with guns, their fathers and forbears all owned and advocated gun ownership. The gun may be uncivilised but it is part of American culture, they live with the knowledge that their neighbours own a gun and the man passing them on the street may be carrying a gun. I am glad I do not live in such a society that welcomes violence I am glad that I know that the vast majority of people I pass on the street don’t have a gun that they can shoot me down with if they’re in the mood to do so.

American law will never change, my attitude is that if the Americans want to shoot each other just because a piece of outdate paper singed by a bunch of old guys in 1787 that said it was ok then despite how ridiculous that may seem to us Europeans we should let them. If they want to shoot and kill each other then let them, just be glad that our society is different.

S&F.

reply to post by EqualizerUK


So by omission you admit you know nothing about the topic you are speaking on. I never claimed this was an American only site or that I owned it. You are a really messed up individual spouting nonsense on an open forum. I could give morre details about myself you know like name social security number, date I retired from the Army but you are not worth the effort. I don't talk out of my a$$ like you have done throughout this thread. Have a great day in england and again keep your opinion about our affairs to yourself.

reply to post by rockledr

keep your opinion about our affairs to yourself.

I couldn’t help when I saw this line thinking to myself that Americans and everyone else on ATS regularly comment on the affairs of others therefore why is it wrong for us Europeans to comment of the affairs of America.

I know I may be interjecting in your debate with the OP when it is not entirely necessary but if your such a fan of the right to bear arms then then why are you not so much of a fan on the right to free speech. I think by effectively demanding that he shut up and not comment on matters of American domestic gun laws you are in effect restricting his right to freedom of speech. It creates a rather obvious inconsistency in your debate.

Originally posted by phroziac
I bought a gun after reading this thread. A berretta 21

Not my first choice but it is a start!
Welcome to free America, you will find that these things are actually fun to shoot and these things also have the potential to save your life or the lives of your loved ones.
Might I suggest a Ruger 10-22 rifle as your next toy, besides being lightweight, easy to operate, RELIABLE, very common for aftermarket parts, accurate, and just an all around fun gun.
Did I mention they are damn affordable too? Weapon and ammo.
Again, congrats on your first!

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


You said,

I however would love to see the statistics for guns saving lives verses guns taking lives, I do believe that the statistics may show that guns do kill more people than they ever save.

I am too lazy to look up stats for an internet argument.
However I do know for a fact that there is a police report for every dead body.
I also do know that there is not a report every time someone grabs a gun and says "get outta my home", or "leave now".
I do know that I have not killed every person I've ever aimed a gun at.
I don't expect you Brits to understand as your freedom instinct has atrophied from decades of non use.
Sure, you have freedom on paper, but when you get down to the brass tacks, it is just another piece of toilet paper if it has no real backing or faith in it.

Originally posted by Lannister

Originally posted by SaltireWarrior
Right okay I've read this thread and to the Americans proclaiming about how our ban on guns is useless because of our "mass stabbings" you CLEARLY have no idea.

I live in what could be considered to be on the roughest parts of the UK and i've never ever seen anyone get stabbed, never seen anyone threatned to get stabbed or anything.

How exactly would you go about a "mass stabbing" because I imagine running into a cinema and stabbing a few people before the masses in the cinema decided to over power the 1 guy with a knife would be a pretty spectacular failure.

Okay and go tell the 3 month old baby and 6 year old girls parents why guns should be permitted...

Guns should be banned all over the world. They allow dangerous people easy access to dangerous weapons.

Honest to god wtf do you guys expect and why are you always so suprised when you get your anual mass shooting?! If some nutcase can buy a dangerous weapon over the counter there is OBVIOUSLY going to be these types of murders!

And you claim about your god damn amendment... Let it go these laws were written centuries ago. Disarm the people and disarm the police. Yes it will take a few decades for gun control to be at an effective level, but in the long run it will be worth it.

It does amuse me though. Statistically, one of the stupidest countries on earth have no gun controls...

Let me ask you something, you ban the guns and what is stopping some nut from looking up "how to make a bomb" on the internet and using that instead of an assault rifle? Sure the knife might not work, but then again the man did throw tear gas into the audience before firing.

The fact is, if you have a nut that is hell bent on killing people, you're not going to stop him. That is the sad reality of the situation. You can't ban knives, bombs, rocks, stones, glass, etc. etc. Anything can be used to kill. The only defense that the common person has in these situations is to be armed to defend themselves. I love the idea that movie theatres are now banning masks. As if some serial killer is going to stop everything he's attempting to do because he read the sign on the front that say "no masks".

The 2nd ammendment, no matter how old it is, was put in place so that the common man could defend himself against his government. It's not in place so that people can get drunk and go huntin' with their buddies. Please, for the love of God, open a history book.

Yeah I forgot, we have banned guns and just LOOK at the sheer amount of bombs exploding all over the country. Not to mention the amount of people dying because people are hitting them with stones...

Seriously?

You guys keep calling tools guns, so lets have a little analogy. Lets say you want to do a piece of DIY. But you have no tools to do the job. Therefore you can't do the DIY.

The DIY was the killing if you didn't grasp the concept.

Us British don't have guns and neither do our police (only special units) AND OMG I WISH WE DID COS DAT GOVERNMENT IS JUST DAYUM OPPRESSING US.

*Facepalm*

reply to post by g146541


I do understand that those statistics probably don’t exist, all I am saying is that it would make for very interesting reading.

The discussion on gun control after the Aurora shootings was started here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please add further comments to the ongoing discussion in the above linked thread.
Thanks

**Thread Closed**


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