How the Great Pyramid Was Built and How It Was Used.

its whats under giza that should be of interest map room =campbells tomb ?

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
nuff said i will not responsed to you again

Thank God ....whew.........

well you should have left good enough alone. now i will do my best to prove thast this is a load of b.s.

for starters, some links.
apparently myers has been at this awhile.
this is from skeptic dictionary
from Oct, of 2000 best i can tell. i say this because every link is broken or the page from the sites will not display. probably been purged. and the last update at the bottom of the page.

Internet Bunk features WWW sites that provide false, misleading or deceptive information regarding scientific matters or alleged paranormal or supernatural events. Because there are millions of such sites, we try to present only the most egregious and offensive. Readers are encouraged to send Internet Bunk material to:

Internet Bunk

Myers has created The Pharaoh's Pump Foundation, which, he claims, is going to build a pump using ancient Egyptian technology. He is accepting donations. Even if it were true that Giza was a water pump in the desert, why bother to build a copy of a pump that's been broken for thousands of years? Because the "ancient pumping technology is nonpolluting and does not require fossil fuels or electricity to operate." Just like windmills! Not quite. According to Myers, the pyramid pump was fueled by fire. I am just guessing here, but I think if it was fueled by fire, something had to burn. I guess they burned all those forests that used to be in the desert, or maybe they burned some magic non-polluting fuel brought in by aliens.

i especially like these last four sentences.

Just like windmills! Not quite. According to Myers, the pyramid pump was fueled by fire. I am just guessing here, but I think if it was fueled by fire, something had to burn. I guess they burned all those forests that used to be in the desert, or maybe they burned some magic non-polluting fuel brought in by aliens.

so he has been at it for about 12 years, no working prototype or even a working model. i wonder why?
and i wonder if he's got around the nonpolluting problem yet.

so after finding the above i decided to see how creditable mr myers is. and it was not much of a surprise to find out that there was not much other than the same old fringe sites that talk about him, and kunkle's theory.
what did surprise me was this


i find this to be very funny. the pharaoh's pump foundation seems to only have one employee, but if you read the ppf's web site it seems "they" have at least two or more. i mean it uses words like we, ours, us, which would indicate more than one person. and it doesn't appear to sell many books either,only $48,000 in total sales. i wonder if all crack pots have this kind of dismal sales. i also wonder if "they" have the money for the $50,000 scholarship they offer. cause some day a some ingenuous go getters are gonna come up with a way. but of course if some one does they will more than likely say they didn't follow the rules.

well i just checked and there not enough room for the rest of my post on this one. new post will follow

so there was no ramp. just giant window planters filled with water ? niftily hanging on through the addition of tens of tons, not to mention the daredevil tugboat pilot. i seem to have missed where they explained the propulsion in that last vid. gas ? or diesel ? wow, those egyptians were advanced. BTW, im assuming OP resides in a 'western' country based on his brazen, thinly vieled attempts at prose attacks, and his eagerness to squash any and all dissent. based on his 'westerness'(?), i will assume it was upbringing that made a foriegner think he knows his # better than someone raised not only in the culture, but in the very shadow of the structure in question. i didnt read the terms of use, but im betting there is something in there dealing with why i am not allowed to laugh you out of the room, or, well, you know...

...leaning back towards the OP after i realized that tugboat could pull in some sort of boom/barrier like in oil spills, you know to corral the water as the 70 ton block of stone does the old tub water slosh. joking aside, (also aside are the issues with pumping water upwards for any distance). the boom could corral the displaced water into the window planter waterfall. which would need to be 16' X 34' X 4' deep just to hold the water for displacement of about 84 tons, but you cant let it slosh out, obviously, so these locks, at least twice the above dimensions(on the INSIDE), hanging precariously, but precise and sturdy enough to endure humongous stress changes many, many times (how many blocks are there?) MUST HAVE been moved into place, no ?
...harmonics mebbe ?

one more thought...when the block sinks, because it is denser than water, the displaced water from the block does not have the same mass. the water sent to the planter will not be enough to float another block as heavy as the first. a gallon sized piece of limestone is gonna be 20 or so times heavier than a gallon of water, so when you sink it, only about 5% of the water needed to float that same block is gonna be pushed out to the window planters. perhaps thats enough, as the locks already must have more than 100 tons of water inside to float the biggest block, the lock also needs room for the water level changes , so twice to above dimentions to just barely float the block.

...unless it was salt water, which can have a much higher density...but alas, there was a big lake...

anyway, hi. hows that for 2 cents ? dont be a moron...erm, deny ignernts

OK people that'll be enough...

Put your egos away for the evening. Either discuss the topic, or do not. The veiled, and not so veiled, attacks and put downs will stop.

A theory is being discussed that posits that water was used to build the pyramid, or pyramids, at Giza. Some other theories have been posited to refute.

That, people, is what this forum is about. If y'all can't discuss it in a civilized, and polite fashion, we can always shut it down.

What'll it be?

continued

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
nuff said i will not responsed to you again

Thank God ....whew.........

now for the last of this post. starting with the question below from the "FAQ" on the ppf website, i must say i wonder why he even list these questions? he does not do a very good job of answering them and is very misdirecting as in all of his statements. in one he right out lies and says that they did something they didn't do. well they did make modifications. they didn't create it like he claims.

i will only list a few here, as this post is growing way to long.

Question: Who built the Great Pyramid? Answer: Who built the Great Pyramid is beyond the scope of our research. Our focus is on researching and understanding the intent of the Original Builders for building this wonder of the world. The Great Pyramid is a massive public works project and our foundation 's focus is understanding the technology of this fascinating construction project.

really now, "beyond our scope" i believe knowing who the builders were, would be the most important step in understanding the intent, and might even help in understanding their technology
.

Question: When was the Great Pyramid built? Answer: When the Great Pyramid was built is beyond the focus of our research. We are researching how the stones were moved and set in place and why. Our research focuses on the technology involved in the creation of this structure.

again it seems that this is not important. "we" don't need to know when.

Question: How was the Great Pyramid built? Answer: It is our contention that the subterranean passages and chambers were designed and created to pump water. This water was used to float barges with stones to the building site and to each stone's final resting place. For more information about how the Great Pyramid was built go HERE.

if the the passages and chamber were built and pumping water, why was there a need to build a mountain of stone on top of it? wouldn't have been more effective and simpler to just build a few simple walls. if they used it to pump water to float the barge so they could move the stones, the rest of the pyramid was not need for the pump to function.

Question: Why would the ancient Egyptians need to build such a monumental "pump" when they had more than enough fertile irrigated land in the Nile river flood plain? It makes no sense. Answer: I am not sure what the ancients thought was enough irrigated farm land. They wanted to irrigate enough land to go to the trouble to create an artificial lake nearly as large as lake Erie. That lake called Lake Moeris was used to irrigate when the flood plain was not flooded. It takes a lot of water throughout the year to irrigate farmland in a very hot dry area with no rainfall even though there is a yearly one time flood. The Great Pyramid water pump moved water from that lake up to higher ground. Also water power can be used for many things. It was water power that powered machinery at the beginning of the Industrial Age. The water from this pump could have been used to power lathes, or other machines. Water power is used to make electricity to this day, and the ancients could have used the water from their pump to do the same.

now this is where he lied, lake moeries was a natural lake that the 12th dynasty phraraohs used this lake as a reservoir. here's a wiki
.Lake Moeris

there are a few more questions, that he does a piss poor job at answering, you can see them on the ppf website FAQ section. starting were i did.
well i'm off to see if i can find some more crack pot bustin sources.
man this is fun.

It's an interesting theory and definitely not one I've heard before. Like a few others though, I think there are a few holes in it. (IMHO of course.)

One poster asked how can it contain all that water, well that's simple. Once all the interior stones are in place they would have displaced something like 95-99% of the water from that level depending on how well they fit the blocks together.

Another poster said it's impractical for them to carve out tunnels and chambers through solid blocks after the fact. If planned properly, they could at least rough cut the various rooms before placing the blocks.

On the other hand, the website doesn't explain how the blocks were taken off the ships and put in place.

This allowed the rough cut interior stones on barges to travel through the water lock and into the pond impounded by the casing stones. Then the rough cut interior stones were moved off the barges and into the pond.

Anyone who's been in a canoe knows every boat has a tipping point and you can't just shove them off the side. So they were lifted off and lowered with movable cranes? I apologize if this was covered in one of the videos. Also some of the larger blocks would've required massive boats to float them.

I understand how locks and dams work and it seems like a great way to do it but the problem comes when you reach the first corner. The corner water lock would have to be huge to be able to turn the boat 90 degrees and I don't think it would be able to support the weight of the water on the corner like that. I learned a long time ago in Boy Scouts, water is vital and it weighs 8 lbs per gallon.

I noticed you said you're not the originator of the theory but you sure seem to take criticism personally. This is only my opinion and this guy could very well be right. I'm not going to buy his book to find out though.

reply to post by Vitruvian


There's no evidence of that intricate a water system or any physical evidence on the stones (water line). This theory seems MORE operose than the ramp theory. SF for an interesting thread though.

reply to post by Vitruvian


You do realize how heavy each of those casing stones is right? You also realize how much boyency would be required to keep them afloat on water right? How deep the barge would sink in the water right? How large those locks would have to be in order to contain a barge large enough to float a block of that size ? As well don't forget the fact Egyptian boats at that time were made from Paperous Reeds, the only suitable material available in quantities necessary to build boats. Not to mention how long it would take to fill the " Interior Ponds" as well as fill and drain the locks as necessary to move blocks up and down. All of this just doesn't seem to fit with the 1 Multi Ton stone a minute necessary to build the pyramid in the supposed time frame it was built.

It's an interesting theory, but it's a little outside of their means. I still don't think the Egyptians built the Great pyramids.

There are other pyramids in the area I believe they built... Like this one. www.theakan.com...

Composed of billions of small Mud/clay bricks. How ever even these pyramids have been found to be much older than they are said to be. I can believe ANCIENT Egyptians built these pyramids. As far as who built the Great pyramids and how. I don't know, we may never know with Egyptologists demolishing every piece of credible evidence and data, as well as extreme stretches such as this. It's an interesting theory I'll give it that, but I don't see how Egyptians could do this with their known materials for building, as well as the fact that desert gets mighty hot, and keeping up with evaporation rates, as well as the flow required for the locks seems quite the stretch. Not to mention the fact, no method for pumping water remained and I would think something as vital as water availability would stick around in Egypt, much like the aquaducts in Rome.

reply to post by Vitruvian
What are you then, Religious? I am not convinced by the theory, but even less convinced by your shirty attitude. You've made your point now go and make a post of your own! be creative instead of repetitive. Stop eating garlic also, youve overdone it.

Originally posted by jrmcleod

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by jrmcleod
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

No disrespect to your thread but this is one of the worst theories i have read on how they were built

Whenever a comment begins like yours does I know immediately that the exact opposite is intended.....I'll say the same to you as to the other one who has not even bothered go through the material before commenting.....READ THE MATERIAL FIRST

BTW - stones being lifted by means of "harmonics" is nothing more than "New Age" physics........unproven and most likely false - as in Voodoo science....

The theories proposed in this thread are scientifically demonstrable and repeatable. Hence they meet the criteria for sound archeological study and scientific research. "Harmonics" is UNPROVABLE - hence scientifically unsound.

Vitruvian........Who the hell cares about your faulty opinions ??? .........Your assumptions are based on faulty OUTDATED and sometimes false information. Please take the time to go through the material before commenting. Thank you......

edit on 20-7-2012 by Vitruvian because: edit

I'm afraid Harmonics is NOT "new-agey", it is proven FACT. There is plenty of evidence out there to suggest that harmonics can be used for this.

Have you watched the documentary called "Ancient Knowledge"? Its in 5 parts and can be found on Youtube. It is VERY eye opening. There is a thread on it here. Search for it and watch it if you are interested in the Pyramids.

Most know that archeology is based on theory and unprovable facts. Archeologists claim to "know" when they don't, its just best guess.

There are many instances where archaeological discoveries that couldn't possibly have occurred have indeed occurred but are brushed under the carpet.

edit on 20/7/12 by jrmcleod because: (no reason given)

Yes indeed acoustic levitation is proven fact but a considerable gap is left when trying to pair modern theory to ancient knowledge. Several sources describe acoustic levitation in the ancient world, one specifically describes the moving of Great Pyramid blocks by a traveling scribe. In this case, the block was simply hammer object and a tuning fork, thus levitating it.

First of all, to even move an object in X,Y,Z it requires 2 reflectors and a transducer and the size of the object MUST be half the wavelength. Scientists today have only been successful in levitating very small objects. The Egyptians would have to have been capable of finding the resonate freq. of a type block, and create a continuous freq.. This all equates to bigger equipment and more energy required by the Egyptians.

I think the Great Pyramid was built using acousitc levitation methods yet undiscovered. The Egyptians were very skilled engineers and were capable of solving complex math problems. Possibly they carried a charge from underground created by an aquifer and calculated net charge. Just my thoughts on the topic.

a few minutes after the snide post this thread was still rattling around. i am now convinced of at least one of the following...
the blocks could conceivably have been transported as the theory suggests, even with the issues of water getting up to the 'build pool'. but the window planters would have had to have been supported by some "new-agey" magic tricks in lieu of a ramp.
spill/leakage from such huge volumes of "salt water," coupled with 20 years construction(or this by itself) could have been the cause of a dustbowl which ended up being called the Sahara...
so there you have it. Pyramids built by govt to effect climate change.
a round boat would have helped at the corners and with the shallow water the ballast/bouyancy could have been adjusted so that when unstable the boat's 'feet' touch the 'floor'. of course once the boat is too big for the space remaining, it all falls apart...
it was a gov't jobs program...

I thought some French guys recently built some pyramid sized stones like concrete. Basically mixed a couple of ingredients, let it dry like damp sand, haul it to wherever you want in small buckets or baskets, pour the mix into a form, and packed it so it was denser. From the video I saw they made a few stones that looked identical to the pyramid stones. Couldn't even tell the difference between their blocks from Giza's stones. Looked like quarried stones.

Seems more likely to me and has been replicated.

Peace

reply to post by Vitruvian


Pfft. Waste of time. They didn't build the pyramid that way, that's just a way they COULD have built it.

While it's not as exciting as harmonics or ET tech theories, it is more logical, and also provides a more plausible use for its contruction. This is one to think about it.

Nice job of presenting their info

Interesting theory and thanks for posting. However, I don't believe it was done that way either.

The first thing that came to mind was Coral Castle. The other was the inner ramp theory that spiraled around pyramid, you know the one you can actually see to this day when you look at the great pyramid.

I've read many different theories and I tend to side with vibrations/harmonics as one of the more probable mechanics involved in it's use. I believe the Pyramid is an incredible machine that we have yet to discover or been told about yet. There are just so many remarkable facts surrounding it's existence, it's somewhat mind boggling when you really look at all of it. I'm also unconvinced we're 100% correct on construction times and dates, but that's another issue.

For me when I hear Pyramid theories like this, I can reduce it down to just "Coral Castle"... sort of like "Building 7". Explaining either would go a long way in convincing me that all things have simple explanations, when of course they do not. More telling, are the reactions some have to just the mention of such things.

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

I thought the pyramids had been proven to be much older than any Egyptian civilization?

And didn't the Japanese prove they couldn't even build a 100ft tall pyramid using methods you have outlined?

And didn't the polished limestone cap that used to cover the pyramid have tolerances like 1/50th of an inch?

edit on 20-7-2012 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition

Who the hell cares about the Cairo University's Archeology Department ???

But what really means CAIRO? You will we amazed! Cairo is a Seleucid-Arab word and it means...
MARS !!!

It's Kunkel revisited. I wonder if the Kunkel Estate is being properly compensated?

Kunkel Water Canal Theory

Although the Great Pyramid is a pump, it doesn't look or operate like any pump people are familiar with. This pump is powered by FIRE. This fire is located at the top of the Grand Gallery. There is still a very distinct aerodynamically shaped soot patter indicating the location of this fire. The combustion of fire creates a partial vacuum in the upper area of the airtight Grand Gallery. The result of this partial vacuum is water is raised up the Grand Gallery. The fire does not "go out" during each cycle. When the oxygen in the upper part of the Grand Gallery is consumed, the fire smolders until the next cycle is started.

At the same time the air in the subterranean chamber has been greatly compressed by the water traveling down the descending passage. The check valve in the top of the descending passage closes when the air in the subterranean chamber is compressed to the maximum. Then the compressed air pushes water through the "Jet," and the lateral connection. This action pushes water up, thereby pushing up underneath on the water in the Grand Gallery. This force pushing up on the water in the Grand Gallery is somewhat similar to the workings of a hydraulic ram pump but on a gigantic scale!

Fish. And logs. And other things in river water. Gars.

I guess they filtered out all the marine life. Snakes too,

Originally posted by thov420
I noticed you said you're not the originator of the theory but you sure seem to take criticism personally. This is only my opinion and this guy could very well be right. I'm not going to buy his book to find out though.

I found it necessary to have to clarify that point (that I am NOT the originator of the theory) at least a dozen times. In doing so I also became aware that the many negative respondents hadn't read a word about the ideas presented in the initial posting, and that they had not viewed the explanatory videos that accompanied the hydraulic pumping ideas. These were NOT criticisms in the usual sense of the term, but were outright attacks on the OP and on the ideas of the originator of the Pump theory - mostly out of ignorance. Most of the attacks were from persons who were either uneducated in the basic principles involved - or they were just not that smart, but were trying to come off as though they were.

My intent was to bring another relatively fresh idea to the forefront of the debate regarding the mystery surrounding the origin and purpose of the Great Pyramid. I mistakenly thought that I was dealing with openminded, intelligent people here at ATS ........Ha.....what a surprise. In view of the hostility and negativity encountered here as a result of having posted this thread I had decided sometime back to refrain from responding any further on the topic.

Then I saw the Moderator post (See below) and am now requesting that the thread be CLOSED.........if that's possible. Of course you can keep it open if you like, but I will not be participating in it.

Originally posted by seagull OK people that'll be enough... Put your egos away for the evening. Either discuss the topic, or do not. The veiled, and not so veiled, attacks and put downs will stop. A theory is being discussed that posits that water was used to build the pyramid, or pyramids, at Giza. Some other theories have been posited to refute.That, people, is what this forum is about. If y'all can't discuss it in a civilized, and polite fashion, we can always shut it down. What'll it be?

a river will move 1km east over a thousand years i have read . even in the 6th c bc the area around the giza pyramids were covered in sea shells . sand & seashells were still being cleared in the 1920s & 30s so that today few people question this or know about it .many think that it was poured into place due to its composition of minerals & sea fossils , & dont look for the obvious machinery marks around the base & pavements. boreholes can you do that with a copper chisel .they had machinery .do some reading on this