Society Let the Real 9/11 Criminals Get Away with It

If society is the cause of the mess we're in today, then society would be anti-social. Surely not solely by the actions of a select few have we arrived at a position where most people have the odds stacked against them.

Anti-social simply means "against the good of society" and has nothing to do with whether or not you are in groups talking and laughing or socializing with any fellow cult members you may have.

There is this curious thing that happens when people get into a group. People get afraid. I believe it has to do with the way society was traditionally structured for thousands of years. It used to be very difficult to survive outside of a group, I would imagine. If you were part of a "tribe" or "gang" or whatever you wish to call it, that increased the odds of your survival. Some would say you are still more likely to survive by being part of a group. The army seems to think so, at least, because they spend time breaking "you" in favor of your platoon or group.

To illustrate the point: think back to the days when you were in school. At some point, you probably saw what it meant if someone disagreed to a large extent with that most of the other people believed, if you were discussing certain issues. If you raised your hand and put yourself out on a limb, you really risk others egging you to just fall off. There are certain academic communities where "it gets better" in terms of open debate, but there are still taboo points of view that if brought up, will exclude you, an "exile" of sorts.

That same fear, I believe, has been carried into adulthood for most people. I thought about this when I was looking at topics like groupthink (wiki link and group dynamics. They consider it a phenomenon, but could the reason be due to the fear associated with being pushed out from a group? Lots of people might keep secrets from their family, for fear of being pushed out of it (especially if the family has money). Being alone back then might mean starving due to being unable to find food on your own. Being alone today can mean being homeless or feeling shame by not receiving validation from the family. There is also the case of co-dependence, when a spouse is attached to an abusive significant other but refuses to leave, too afraid to be alone.

So, in light of these ideas, we see how easy it is to instill ideas into people's minds. The first person to put forth an idea basically has that golden moment. That person gets to propose an idea even before all the facts have been arrived at, before it's even possible to have any. The reason is that most people will passively accept the idea, and few people will ask, How about we wait before listening to this guy? Of course, if it's not obvious to you, I'm referring to a specific moment in history, the "bush guy" who went on TV to tell us that he and his buddies had it all figured out after only a few days. The news reported it, and what did people who heard about it do as a group, even if they were not physically close to each other? I will tell you what most didn't do -- most didn't object to the absurdity of it all. (You can object to my considering it absurd if you wish.)

Who was going to be that one person who dares to question what was being told to millions of people? Surely if they took a bold move and stated something absurd, it would surface and people would object right? Somewhat so, is what it appears. A few are bothered enough to "switch sides" and object, but most are too comfortable fitting in, and don't want to risk rejection.

And, they put their "social status" ahead of the rest of society when they do that. So, we end up with a majority of people who are so unwilling to be potentially isolated that they make it worse for everyone. Clearly a case of selfishness due to fear.

These are just some new ideas I was wondering about. I haven't really reviewed them or thought too much over them, so there may be parts that don't make sense or that people disagree with for certain reasons. That is what makes the discussion interesting though.

So, what do you think of those ideas? Could the pull of the comfortable feeling of the group really push people to stifle their real opinions or to not even bother delving into "fringe subjects"? In order for most people to accept something, is a sizable majority required in order for most people to consider adopting an idea? (That is, minorities exist, but could minorities ever end up representing the majority, with very differing opinions?) Would that lead to a different type of chaos and make communication difficult?

I think people dont want to end up being in the wrong group

reply to post by BacknTime


Are you saying you believe that most people would consider the 'wrong group' to be the one with people who questioned the official story? I can easily see how that would be the case.

I think questions are extremely healthy, and if something is true in the first place, nobody should mind the questions. When no questions are allowed, that makes it very easy for lies to spread. Actually, being unable to ask questions would amount to being a parrot or a robot. Actually, the parrot might consider what it is being told more than some other people I know are willing. (No offense to those parrots.)

In the Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Patriot Act and NDAA) you were only safe if you ensured the masses did know you were not one of them.

Technology has made humanity totally anti-social. Update "status" and "Check-In" then tweet about it.

When the rich make money, there will never be people placed in jail.

Look at 9/11, the financial institutions, our continued occupation of Afghanistan and the list goes on.

How exactly is a serf supposed to stop the king and his men?

As soon as you let us know, we'll get right on it.

reply to post by pirhanna


Well, to begin with, we acknowledge the actual problem and how it happens. Blaming the TV doesn't work; we can't control the TV. If we don't know the problem, though, fixing it will be difficult. Once we figure that out, then we can propose solutions. I'm trying to figure out what is going on in the minds of the majority that makes them behave the way they do. It's isn't a matter of how smart you are. I've seen smart people do the same thing less 'privileged' ones do. So, I asked, What is it? And, I wrote my proposal here.

All hope is not lost...yet. There are already videos of soldiers at press conferences saying they realize they were in the war for the wrong reasons. They threw their medals on the ground. I would say that is a start, when some of the "king's men" are now in tune with what's really going on.

If enough of the right people also 'tune in,' then we have a substantial number of individuals on our side and off the corrupt side. Instead of going for all the people in America, select groups could be chosen to undermine the propaganda machine. There are very simple ways to do this actually. Writing certain letters to certain people over and over again can be a good tool. I would go further into it, but I won't, here.

Anyway, here is a video that illustrates a point. The king can have his men taken from him, and then the tables are turned. The thieving king then realizes he is severely outnumbered by the people he stole from, and they're angry and perhaps hungry too.



Now, to share your feelings, most of the time I feel we are up against something too strong. Still, I keep wondering how this happened. I hope that by figuring it out, we might be able to tailor the messages appropriately so that perhaps people will listen to us instead of looking at us as a bunch of lazy complainers. Is there such a message that might unite people and get them to join us? If not, we are worse off. I'm just trying to help.

First off,
A hundred stars and flags if I could blahhh blahhh blahhhh.

Now then,
I couldn't agree with you more.

I was always the awkward kid in school.
I was always being picked on,bullied, harrassed, put down, # on, beat up....I was an outcast.
Whether it was the clothes my parents dressed me in, or the way I parted my hair, or my general awkward appearance, or all of the above doesn't really matter.

What matters is,
Because of this, I got used to not fitting in.
I grew comfortable with it.
I even began to like it and seek it out.

I am now an adult, 38 yrs old, and as a result of years of abuse by my peers I am totally free to think what I want to think and say what I want to say with ZERO care in the world as to what other people think.

It is THE MOST liberating feeling in the world but in order to get there, Well, you have to go thru alot of #.

I know well of which you speak, and I can tell you from first hand experience, it is the most frustrating thing in the world to see so many people soooo scared to speak out for fear of ridicule and being outcast from 'the group'.

I love my fellow human beings BUT, I wouldn't give two squirts of piss if they ridiculed me and made me an outcast because of my opinions on a particular matter. I know what I know and do not need nor seek the approval of ANYONE!

It is really rather liberating, everyone should try it.
I highly reccomend it.

reply to post by Screwed


Thanks for chiming in.

That really makes a lot of sense. Those of us (I assure you, I was too) who grew up on 'the fringe' were never even given the chance to be apart of 'the group' in the first place. It was my own awkwardness and because I did well in school (but not the playground) that pushed me out, or rather, never got me 'in.'

Now that I think about it, even if you have a few friends, that is all it takes to get you to feel pressured to conform despite that it means you abandon your ability to freely express yourself. If you're an outcast, then you have nothing to lose.

Some people are extremely confined by their social positions. That is, if Bill Clinton figured 9/11 was an inside job and announced that, he would be, probably dead because his wife would kill him for ruining her own chances.

Even in the workplace, I have encountered this 'monster' that is groupthink. I remember a fire erupted in the kitchen once. Nobody knew what to do, because it was a gas fire. Flames shot out from behind the fryers. If those fryers were to have been ignited, that would be an oil and gas far. Dangerous, right? Nobody else but me admitted that nobody knew what to do, and that it was dangerous to continue to use the equipment. It was basically a very watered down version the BP situation. Everyone knows something is dangerous, but everyone just keeps "going with the flow."

Well, I quit that job, and I am still the type of person to speak out when something is wrong, even if I'm the only one. Yes, it's difficult. People don't respect truth anymore. They just want to feel good. There will come a time, when feeling good will be impossible because the basic comforts will be taken away. By then, it will be too late to try to cooperate and topple these awful thugs.

Entire neighborhoods have been taken over as well. People know that gangs run certain areas, but everyone pretends it's okay until one of their own family members is dead. That is probably a worse situation (to try to turn the neighborhood around) than the national one, in terms of difficulty getting people to cooperate against a common enemy. The reason is that gangs have no rules. The system does have rules, despite that they continually break them (macing protestors for trivial reasons, often). So, at least at the point we're at now, you don't have to fear death while you sleep at night if you speak out. The time may come when you do, though! We can't say it hasn't happened before.

I hate to call people 'sheeple' because it's just plain offensive and only divides us more, and because we NEED these people to cooperate with us. That is the only way...isn't it? Can someone see a way to oust the traitors and restore order by the people (not the corporations) that doesn't involve the majority? The majority must give approval for the new system, also, so keep that in mind.

Originally posted by pirhanna
How exactly is a serf supposed to stop the king and his men?

As soon as you let us know, we'll get right on it.

Firstly stop thinking of yourself as a serf LOL.

Get some power into yourself...do something useful, that has to do with betterment.

Watch for the leaders who are suddenly appearing all over the place, help the women not lose control in the new excitement.

I was really hoping more people would reply with their comments.

I don't "require" them, but it helps to have other people examine things.

I can accept if it doesn't go further...

reply to post by daynight42


I had a good response all written up last night and did the old whoops I erased it thing. I think you have a good point. It is always difficult to swim against the current - it has not won me very many friends - I have learned to tone it down around certain people and that is choice I have made. I could stand on a street corner and yell but it wouldn't be accepted. I don't really know what to say other than have integrity and always call it like it is - don;t force your opinions on anyone, just be rational and hope others can open their minds. Sometimes it takes a different tact than debating or arguing. I don't know what that means exactly, but I want to stress I respect and understand your point. Pick your battles or you will find yourself fighting your whole life and there are some things that no matter how much we know are wrong will always exist - I mean, if people can't see Wall street is a scam, 9/11 was not as we are told, diebold is an obvious stealing of votes etc, it is hard on a small level to get through.

No idea where I'm going but your views are appreciated.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Okay. Yea, it is frustrating to lose a reply you typed up. Here's a tip...before you submit anything (an email, a reply, a form online), do a quick Ctrl + A, Ctrl + C....that is...hold down control and press A...then press C (holding control the entire time)...that will select (A)ll your text and then (C)opy it (see the letters makes it easy to remember).

Ctrl + V can be used to paste what you copied. It doesn't have an easy to remember letter, except that it is right next to the C on the keyboard. Ctrl + V will cut the text, it's basically like copying it and removing it from the space you're typing in.

We are really battling the social networks (real life) and radio hosts and news programs. These are the places people are getting their information. As long as all of their friends (or most of them) agree with them, they feel "safe" as if they are doing the right thing. This is what makes it so difficult. You can't convince one person at a time. That's why preachers and ministers have power..they can discuss things and sway the entire group at once, and they are all more likely to share his view.

Imagine groups like police officers. I bet these guys and girls have the same issue. Imagine if one of them thought of working with the occupy movement. If they just considered it, what else would they consider? Being outcast in their workplace. I mean, is it really possible to be a cop in NYC and be in the Occupy movement? I really would like to know if there are any cops in the Occupy movement.

Anyone know?

That is what we are up against...these groups of people who all want to stick together. Convincing them as a group....I have no sure idea of how to do that. Individually, even harder. Maybe when their own homes get foreclosed on, they might change their view? But, they might want to keep their job. I think they have an "us vs them" mentality that needs to be dealt with. "You're not a thieving elite banker. Join us. Arrest them." I mean, would that be an effective message? Messages that rally the protestors and the cops. "Stand with us. We're on the same side." maybe?

We have seen that people on opposite sides of a war, join together. They did for christmas. This was in Europe. Opposite sides stopped fighting for a day or so, and ate and sang (or whatever). That shows that people on "opposite" sides can see through the crap and come together for a moment.

What the protestors are doing is basically offending people by yelling and shouting their messages. Maybe being quiet and holding signs would work better as a tactic to "be heard"?

Just trying to think of new ideas.