Christian upbringing? (me, too) Recently born again? Let's talk!

reply to post by wildtimes


That's not what lonewolf is saying. Perhaps you should explain your view to him. I misunderstood your premise. I believe we are on the same page now.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

That's not what lonewolf is saying. Perhaps you should explain your view to him.

I know that. I know lonewolf's position. We disagree on many things, but not all things. You are pretty new here, and I suspect you haven't quite gotten to know everyone yet.

I could tell in your first posts here that you were "expecting" me to defend Christianity as it is today. Not so.
I am not here to preach, I despise proselytizing (which means "recruiting"), and Apologetics seems to be just a technique for being firmly entrenched and bashing people who question authority.

I hope I've cleared that up for you.

I believe lonewolf knows my stance on it, he and I have established that before. If not, he's not paying any attention to me, but I'm pretty sure he knows where I stand. I think the question is whether or not you know where I stand, and everyone else.

EDIT: Response to your clarification: Coolio. Good Thanks for participating. Please play nice.

reply to post by autowrench


A round of beers for you, my friend. It is good to see at least some people understand the disinformational past Christianity has hidden under its rugs...

Not to be disrespectful. I just believe that Christianity is far more misleading and uninformed than it is helpful.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

A round of beers for you, my friend. It is good to see at least some people understand the disinformational past Christianity has hidden under its rugs...

Not to be disrespectful. I just believe that Christianity is far more misleading and uninformed than it is helpful.

Glad you're taking the time to read through people's posts and see what they are saying. Autowrench is a jewel. You are not alone here in your perspective, not by a long shot. Welcome to Team Enlightenment. (heh)

reply to post by Klassified

Christianity is about fear, self loathing, slavery, and worship, of a being who saved us from what? Himself. Does it never cross your mind that from the time you are born into this world, until the time you leave it, those who wield power all want the same thing? Your fear. Your servitude. Your adoration and worship. The only difference is God promises he is bigger and badder than all the rest, and they can't hold a candle to the torment he can put you through for eternity.

It's not about fear, it is about love, and reverence. We show Yah reverence. You can't love what you fear, i learned that a long time ago suffering 17 years of child abuse at the hands of a pentecostal father, ofcourse he was later diagnosed as an untreated bi-polar, and i found my way back to Yeshua and realized he was always there, he never left me, but it was i who left him.

You can blame God all you want but there comes a time when you have to stop casting blame on others and accept your own blame. The 14 years of pain and anguish after i ran away at 17 was inflicted on by no one else but me, i freed myself at 17 and then enslaved myself again to my rage and anger and pain and no one else did that but me.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You are wrong. I will not show shame in saying this. Christianity is about fear, self loathing, and slavery. You believe these are expressions of love and reverence, I believe that any being who demands such deserves to be cast into the hell that it created.

There is no love in self-loathing. There is no love in fear. From the moment I heard we must fear "God", I doubted the Christian god. No loving person demands fear. Fear only lasts so long as you have the bigger stick. Why do you think we are kept as dumb sheep? So we will never have a stick. Admiration is a far better medium, but I don't admire your god.

You are blinded by promises of safety in exchange for fear. Your integrity has been compromised in this regard, and any being whom you follow in such a fashion, who demands that you do so, has compromised their own integrity as well...even more so, in fact.

You have my pity. Whatever has driven you to accept such a bargain, much be horrible indeed. I accept I cannot change you, but I still wish I could help you see. Alas, leading the horse to water, you know. An aquaphobic horse will not drink, no matter how foolish the fear.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You can blame God all you want but there comes a time when you have to stop casting blame on others and accept your own blame. The 14 years of pain and anguish after i ran away at 17 was inflicted on by no one else but me, i freed myself at 17 and then enslaved myself again to my rage and anger and pain and no one else did that but me.

See? Another of those little unexpected statements from lonewolf...that I agree with completely.

I do agree with Klassified's assessment, though. It is about fear and shame and self-loathing, and depending on something "other than" to work it out. I feel that depending on one's fellow humans for help is far more beneficial. That rage and anger was a natural reaction to the abuse you received; your methods of dealing with it caused you just as much suffering. In my thinking, that means you were using a coping strategy that worked for a while, one that you constructed due to your subjective experience. But then it stopped working....classic behavioral stuff. It's when the coping strategy becomes destructive and no longer works that one is most likely to admit they need help, and perhaps be willing to do the work to heal.

The problem is that too many just throw their hands up in exasperation and say, "Okay, God, whatever. Lay it on me. I'll do whatever you say, just as long as you promise one day I'll be safe and sound."

...to me, the trick is to get your own head on straight, and adjust your own thinking, behaviors, and feelings... by talking with other humans, not relying on some invisible CEO's "rules". You were mistreated by the hand of your parent. Absolute right to be angry, and not at all surprising that you were hurt deeply. Working through the rage and pain, facing it head on, and learning to let go of it is the way to heal it. Not giving up your life to a legendary hero just because a book says that's the way to do it.

I'm sorry for your pain, lonewolf. Really.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I'm just trying to decide if what you're really practicing is Christian Mysticism or some other kind of mysticism.

I think few Christians are qualified to decide that. If one spends a few years studying comparative mysticism, comparative religion, and comparative mythology (and have a few mystical experiences along the way) one might end up qualified.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Christianity is about fear, self loathing, and slavery.

It only appears this way to those who don't understand it.

I could turn it around and say that people are driven away from it due to pure rebellion.

Was Jesus rebellious? No.

Has man always been rebellious? Yes.

Has man being rebellious over thousands of years accomplished anything as a whole to improve mankind? No.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You can blame God all you want but there comes a time when you have to stop casting blame on others and accept your own blame. The 14 years of pain and anguish after i ran away at 17 was inflicted on by no one else but me, i freed myself at 17 and then enslaved myself again to my rage and anger and pain and no one else did that but me.

This has nothing to do what what I'm saying. Were it anyone else, a mortal man here on Earth perhaps, asking you to do these things in "reverence", we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

All love of "God" stems from the fact that whatever we fear, he'll supposedly save us from. It's a godmod, and we'll tell ourselves whatever lies we have to in order to sleep at night.

reply to post by BlueMule


One simple question.

When you meditate, what do you focus and meditate on?

reply to post by Deetermined

Was Jesus rebellious? No.

Wait. WHAT?

He certainly was! According to the Gospels, he was busy overturning tables in the temple, berating the priests or whoever for their behaviors, was run out of town on a rail, and killed for it! That's, erm...
rebellion.

reply to post by Deetermined

Has man being rebellious over thousands of years accomplished anything as a whole to improve mankind? No.

Incorrect. We have invented various forms of entertainment, medicines, reproductive activities, and technological advances that are perfectly healthy in moderate amounts.

Originally posted by wildtimes

Wait. WHAT?

He certainly was! According to the Gospels, he was busy overturning tables in the temple, berating the priests or whoever for their behaviors, was run out of town on a rail, and killed for it! That's, erm...
rebellion.

Jesus did not rebel against authority.

Yes, he became frustrated and dealt with those whom he was trying to teach, but that wasn't bucking authority.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Has man being rebellious over thousands of years accomplished anything as a whole to improve mankind? No.

Incorrect. We have invented various forms of entertainment, medicines, reproductive activities, and technological advances that are perfectly healthy in moderate amounts.

Let me ask this another way. Has man improved mankind's mindset in a way that brings us all together, without just the task of entertaining ourselves or finding ways to live longer?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The 14 years of pain and anguish after i ran away at 17 was inflicted on by no one else but me, i freed myself at 17 and then enslaved myself again to my rage and anger and pain and no one else did that but me.

And now, you have done it again, by enslaving yourself to an imagined friend in your mind who you believe can save you. The thing is, lonewolf.....YOU can save you. It is YOUR SPIRIT that you hear within, crying out to take care of it.

You keep giving it up to abuse, or rage, and now Yah (or whoever). OWN IT. Then purge it. You were a hurt little boy, an enraged young man. Now you can look back and see HOW and WHY...and make some changes. Just trying to "mask" or "control" the pain behind Christian legends is not going to heal you, friend.

It's out of the frying pan, into the fire. You must learn that you DO have the strength to make your own rules, and live by them. It's possible, but it is hard work. Rather a cop out to "hand it over to God" and say "whatever, ok, you're the boss of me." No. YOU -- the precious part of you that was that hurt little boy...and is STILL you...needs your love and care. For you to take his hand, and protect him, YOU ALONE are the boss of you, YOU are your OWN salvation and hero. That's what I believe. Nurture that little guy, help him feel safe. Don't just hand him over to something you can't see or control.

Just a suggestion. No Charge. Whatever works for you. Just keep in mind that when it no longer works, and you STILL feel full of rage and pain, it's okay to change it up again. Your part of the Divine all the same.

reply to post by Deetermined

Jesus did not rebel against authority.

Yes, he became frustrated and dealt with those whom he was trying to teach, but that wasn't bucking authority.

I....I don't even know how to respond to this. We must be talking about two different people. Jesus of Nazareth was absolutely the picture of "civil disobedience." He went way, way out of his way to consort with lepers and whores and thieves and women and all the "filth" that the Jews shunned.

Wow. Your church seems to be some other form of religion entirely from what the story of Christ is based on.

reply to post by wildtimes


I would consider that social disobedience, not civil disobedience.

Civil disobedience would require breaking the law and/or disobeying authority.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by BlueMule

 

One simple question.

When you meditate, what do you focus and meditate on?

I meditate on virtues. Faith, hope, love, charity, compassion, justice, mercy, forgiveness, dignity, honor, strength.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You are wrong. I will not show shame in saying this. Christianity is about fear, self loathing, and slavery. You believe these are expressions of love and reverence, I believe that any being who demands such deserves to be cast into the hell that it created.

And how would someone who has never read the Holy Bible know what we are about? You've never read the 2 books. There again you're forming your own opinion without knowing anything about it. There's that ignorance again. You talk like you think you know, but you do not know. Sheol wasn't created for humans, but you don't know that because you haven't read the book.

I don't loathe myself, i love myself enough to want a relationship with he who created me, with Yeshua and YHWH, the one who died to redeem me to himself. There is so much you do not know. It is a shame that someone would be biased to something without ever knowing anything about it. That is really sad.