Christian upbringing? (me, too) Recently born again? Let's talk!

reply to post by BlueMule

I have a hard time talking to exoteric Christians. As an esoteric Christian mystic I consider my exoteric brothers and sisters to be uninitiated children on a diet of spiritual baby-food. They consider me to be a 'false prophet'. It's an impasse that mere words can't overcome.

So I'm content to bless them, pray for them, and leave them be.

I see.

You are new here, I've noticed you joined in right away suggesting that people "study comparative world religion and mythology" and, forgive my being blunt, but I felt that you were jumping to that conclusion without having taken the time to do some background-checking by getting a feel for who everyone "is" here on these boards (the regulars, that is).

But, welcome aboard anyway (as if my welcoming you matters! :laughs at self. Look forward to hearing a bit more about how you got there, and reading along as you become part of the community and come to know the personalities. There are a few who fit your description above, but by no means are "all" of the members on these forums like that.

reply to post by Verity27

They want God to be one who accepts them regardless of their lifestyles, but is there to answer at their beckon call when they meet some kind of adversity. This is not the way it is. People need to put aside their arrogance. God is watching, waiting for you to reach out to Him. We don't get to make up the rules. The rules are His. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to try. You have to have faith in Him. We don't get to question God's will, we just have to accept it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Amen brother. It's his way or no way and it always has been. We have to meet him on his terms not vice versa. He is not the one that has to surrender, we are and the terms have been set.

Most people do not want to accept this, they want to do it their own way thinking they are the masters of their own fate, and so they are but there are only 2 choices. Life or death. Better a living dog than a dead lion.

I completely disagree with this, but obviously there are people lurking who agree with both of you. Sad. I'm sorry you feel so powerless. We do, too get to "question" what we don't understand, and we don't just "have to accept it."

How do you know any better than I do? The only thing we have to accept is that our bodies WILL DIE. That's it. All else is speculation. I don't need some invisible tyrant bossing me around, thanks. I guess it's really most surprising of all that folks with such a narrow frame of mind are on ATS to begin with. I have to wonder if they're here not to learn what they don't know, and to deconstruct disinformation and deny ignorance, but instead to crusade for Christ.

Originally posted by wildtimes

There are a few who fit your description above, but by no means are "all" of the members on these forums like that.

The vast majority of Christians in the world are mainstream, orthodox, exoteric Christians of one denomination or another (or non-denominational) who have not spent years studying comparative mysticism, comparative mythology, and comparative religion as I have. And needless to say, the vast majority are not mystics who have been initiated into the Christian mysteries by the Holy Spirit and made privvy to Heavenly secrets as I have.

Oh, don't get me wrong. They are exactly where God wants them, and when they are ready for initiation God will take care of it. I love them and accept them, despite their spiritual immaturity. So I'm content to leave them be. I much prefer talking to non-Christians about spiritual matters. I'm all too often disappointed in my Christian brothers and sisters because I find them to be ignorant and judgmental...and on this board I can usually add paranoid to that list of flaws.

Originally posted by wildtimes

I think much of it has to do with a person's basic temperament and sensitivity, which is influenced by the "spiritual leader's" presentation.

The church I went to was solemn, formal, no smiling, just dirge-like music and grave tones of voice...had to get all dressed up, be quiet, not fidget, pay attention, on your knees, head bowed, begging for forgiveness. Not an uplifting message for me as a little girl...although my mom much much later was shocked to hear that was what I took away from it.

This is just sad in so many ways, but I know exactly what you're saying. A friend invited me to go to their Missionary Baptist church once where everyone in the entire church spent the whole time crying and wailing and I was shocked beyond belief. In fact, I felt convicted to say something to all of them about it. Yes, there is a time for sorrow and a time for rejoicing, but a Sunday church service is never the time for sorrow. Sorrow should be reserved for you own private moments of self reflection, not some mass public outshowing to convince people how humble you are. It diminishes the whole meaning of what humility is really about.

They do very little to uplift, to support and comfort. But maybe that's just a warped perspective; unquestionably there are people who gain much from them. I'm not one of them, and I will say that I will never be. I'm not a candidate for the "born-again" option. I've already gotten through my forest, and come out on the other side, intact, and at peace. I understand the Divine as much as I can without dying. The mysteries are beautiful; I'm not afraid, and I wish everyone else could let go, and stop being so angry, afraid, unwell, worried, and judgmental.

I'm sorry that your experiences made you feel that way.

However, I don't think any truly spiritual person feels angry, afraid, or worried, regardless of what religion or faith they subscribe to.

As for Christians who mention that they rejoice in the coming of the Lord and are tired of the world as it is today, it's not because our lives are unhappy or unmeaningful, it only means that we know it's going to be so much better on the other side because the world that we know around us absolutely refuses to change it's ways. Yes, life on earth would be so much better if people respected our planet and each other, but what people need to realize in reality, is that it will not change no matter how much we wish it. World peace was never meant to happen on this earth. This world was never meant to last forever.

reply to post by wildtimes

So, here I am. Baring my soul. Some say "new agers are spiritually dead", some claim their belief is the "only Way, Truth, and Life" ......but some say "all religious traditions have a grain of truth."

I would like to discuss the differences between us...civilly, courteously, kindly. Anyone interested?

The "conspiracy angle" being: How did your particular denomination influence you to give yourself over to it?

Star and flag for you, friend, great post and about time we got all this on the table, as it were. I have told my religion story in here more than once already, so I won't repeat it here. That, coupled with many years of reading every book that came to hand, provided me with a great education on most everything. As for religious education, I go that too, and like Wildtimes, I too was attracted to the Buddhist ways, I like their whole peaceful laid back society. I think that peace/laid back thing is what drew me to Wicca, that, and a family thing that goes back many generations.
In Wicca there is no enemy, no Satan, no condemnation, save what I do to myself, and best of all, instead of a three headed all male deity, we have a Father, and a Mother, just like here on Earth, which again, the Way of Things. I don't like it much when people criticize my religion, and make fun of my Father or Mother, so I react. I cannot help myself, it is a compulsion. I have always been very passionate about what I believe is truth and reality, and it saddens me that more people are not like me. I am a Questioner. I question every single thing, no matter how trivial, nothing is taken at face value until is is fully known and examined. I will show you what I mean:

A Christian approaches me....
"Do you know the Lord?" he asks, this is a common question to see if someone is Christian. "Lord?" I say, "Do you know that word means a person who has slaves?" "What is the name of your Lord?" "Jesus," he replies. OK, I have been here many times before, so proceed to inform this person of things, give them a short history lesson, and finally tell them I do not believe these things at all, to me they are not real. Both would walk away in an idea situation, right?

It hardly ever happens that way. What happens is the Christian feels insulted, and automatically has labelled me already, and feels he needs to "save" me from his own imagined place of punishment. So he will get madder by the minute. I once had a JW woman so mad she was stamping her feet and screaming at me to stop talking.

I will begin:
So what if I am not like you? So what if I am going to Hell? Why does it bother you? I know history about your version of God(s), and have studied and researched your holy books. Does that automatically make me a Satanist? I don't believe in Demons as you do, why keep pushing them on me, and attempting to convince me they are as real as you think they are?

reply to post by BlueMule


BlueMule, I still don't understand why you feel so judged by Christians. Are you sure it's the Christians who are judging you?

I am very interested in hearing what you claim to know.

reply to post by autowrench

In Wicca there is no enemy, no Satan, no condemnation, save what I do to myself, and best of all, instead of a three headed all male deity, we have a Father, and a Mother, just like here on Earth, which again, the Way of Things. I don't like it much when people criticize my religion, and make fun of my Father or Mother, so I react. I cannot help myself, it is a compulsion. I have always been very passionate about what I believe is truth and reality, and it saddens me that more people are not like me. I am a Questioner. I question every single thing, no matter how trivial, nothing is taken at face value until is is fully known and examined.

I hear ya, bro! All of this ^^^ is how I see it, too.

reply to post by wildtimes

Did you know when you were teaching it that it was not correct?

No. I only taught and preached from what I believed at the time. It wasn't until much later that I began to go back and analyze what I had said and taught to many. It was a painful realization to know how much I helped to further the consensus reality of so many.

reply to post by Klassified

No. I only taught and preached from what I believed at the time. It wasn't until much later that I began to go back and analyze what I had said and taught to many. It was a painful realization to know how much I helped to further the consensus reality of so many.

I salute you, my friend. I think there is not one person alive who, having taken an honest inventory of past deeds, would NOT feel pain to realize what they thought was right hurt others. It happened with me, too...not in a religious sense at all, but with moving through life's stages and grappling with decisions and justifications for them.

I've had to go through some very intense soul-searching to arrive where I am today...knowing that I had caused hurt in others inadvertently, believing I was doing the right thing.

EDITED second sentence above.....meant to say "who would NOT feel pain and remorse"...


Well, the psychopaths and sociopaths, yeah, not so much. And I've been sucked in by a couple or few in my life. It's been hard for me to remember not to automatically trust people -- it's in my nature to do so. But I've been shocked into awareness of reality enough times now that I'm warier.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by BlueMule

 

BlueMule, I still don't understand why you feel so judged by Christians. Are you sure it's the Christians who are judging you?

I am very interested in hearing what you claim to know.

No thanks, been there done that.

I was raised Jehovahs Witness, and may I say their pacifistic nature in refusing to go to War is about the only thing they get right in terms of following Christs loving and peacefull message. But it is also the biggest thing Mainstream Christianity gets wrong IMO.

The eagerness and wiling nature of most Christians to go to War is something I will never understand.
How they justify their actions in this regard has allways been perplexing to me.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by BlueMule

 

BlueMule, I still don't understand why you feel so judged by Christians. Are you sure it's the Christians who are judging you?

I am very interested in hearing what you claim to know.

No thanks, been there done that.

I understand.

Can you at least give us your definition of Christian Mysticism in simple terms?

reply to post by Deetermined

Yes, life on earth would be so much better if people respected our planet and each other, but what people need to realize in reality, is that it will not change no matter how much we wish it. World peace was never meant to happen on this earth. This world was never meant to last forever.

Well, as long as some people think it's impossible, it probably won't. But I firmly believe in the power of thought -- and science is beginning to prove that it is the observer, and his/her intentions, that affect reality.

If we all as a single UNIT, decided to go for it, it WOULD happen. But it takes all of us, because we are ONE. I think world peace IS meant to happen. We are at a crossroads now. Please try to tweak that negativity just a teensy bit...

The common plea says "on earth as it is in Heaven", doesn't it? So, if it's impossible, why go to a church and keep asking for something you believe will never happen? Anyway, that doesn't make sense to me. It COULD happen, and in fact, I think one day it WILL happen. Once the human race steps up and realizes that each of us is contributing, like cells in a body. Cancer can be survived.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by BlueMule

 

BlueMule, I still don't understand why you feel so judged by Christians. Are you sure it's the Christians who are judging you?

I am very interested in hearing what you claim to know.

No thanks, been there done that.

I understand.

Can you at least give us your definition of Christian Mysticism in simple terms?

I think that would just be opening a door for an argument, and I would rather bless you than argue with you. It hurts to argue with my fellow Christians. I prefer arguing with pseudo-skeptics and scientism thralls. That doesn't hurt quite as much.

I figure if you're ready for your own understanding of Christian mysticism then the Holy Spirit will lead you to it with or without my definition. And if you're not ready then nothing good would come of discussing my definition and experiences.

reply to post by BlueMule

I think that would just be opening a door for an argument, and I would rather bless you than argue with you. It hurts to argue with my fellow Christians.

While I totally understand the above sentiment, I started the thread so that we could talk without arguing. But perhaps your pain is too great to do that, and I respect that.

I agree that when one is ready, the Spirit is easily touched and realized. I'm sorry for your hurt.

reply to post by BlueMule


I'm just trying to decide if what you're really practicing is Christian Mysticism or some other kind of mysticism. Maybe if you could tell us the difference, we might have a better understanding as to why you think Christians are the one rejecting your theories.

reply to post by wildtimes


Then what god do you believe in?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I didn't know this was a show-up-and-troll thread. OP came here with open arms, and you came to tear them apart.. for no reason. How about we discuss that.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

It's his way or no way and it always has been.

Such simple-mindedness is pitiful. I had expected better of Homo Sapiens. It's as though you're afraid to think for yourself. Can you not ensure your own happiness? Do you have to indenture yourself to a man you've never met and who reportedly died years ago, because you're so afraid of failing on your own?

Because that's what I see in you. Fear, and thus a need for faith.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I don't believe there are "Gods" to choose from. I believe we are all part of the Cosmic Source. It's all one organism. I'm not a practicing Christian, AfterInfinity, I was just born into that faith, and now have turned away from it. I believe Christ's reported message is all there is.
Love One Another. We are all connected through spirit, we are all part of the Divine. I believe we're here to learn how to be ready for higher planes of existence. I believe in reincarnation, but also believe some humans have been once-born, or born pure, such as Jesus Christ might have been...someone who came to teach.

I think we all have something to learn, or to teach, and we're all in this together. And we will all achieve "ascension" eventually.