It’s a shame about ATS... we can hardly recognize you.

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Originally posted by Brown Bear
Another Zombie. I won't comment to this stuff.

You do realize, you just did. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to just ignore it, then?

Originally posted by awakendhybrid
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

Are you saying that you're done? That you won't help us? Did we do something wrong that we don't deserve the insights of our elders? I was going to read all the posts before responding to you, but I guess I'm doing it now instead.
Your post was very well written, and I would love to learn from all the 'old timers' here. When I found this site only a few months ago every day was a jaw-dropping experience. I've had my eyes opened to countless ideas and I am very grateful. I can only hope to one day be more of a teacher than a student.
Maybe what you are really confronting is a change of personal role in all of this. Most of us are here because we love learning--I'd assume the same goes for you, but ask yourself if maybe you have evolved beyond this site?
If you don't feel like entering the 'teach-role' and would prefer to stay a student then maybe it is just time to move on. I've come across several ideas, websites or books that were the end-all-be-all of my, then, current existence. In each of those instances though one day I realized I had moved beyond what anyone there had to give, and so I moved on.
I hope you won't though. Like I said, I'd love to delve into the wisdom of others.

Also, concerning 'crappy' threads--more often than not, I find the best insights in the COMMENTS of a thread than in the thread itself.

What I'm saying is that insight is wasted on Zombies and that anyone who can think has evolved well beyond them and realizes that Zombies add nothing to the conversation... although lately, appear to be dominating it on ATS.

The "teach" mode. We've got 4 generations of socialized losers in this country now and somebody taught them to be losers. Once done (in the early years) it's nearly impossible to undo.

I like your attitude.

Originally posted by TiggersTheMan

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Another Zombie. I won't comment to this stuff.

You do realize, you just did. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to just ignore it, then?

Yes, but if he just ignores you, he doesn't get to tell himself that he is superior to you. That's what is really important to him.

Originally posted by awakendhybrid
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

Hmm...so are you asking and hoping that we go straight to the questions, look for the answers and ignore most of the outward judging/agreeing/complaining aspects of a typical post? I'm on the 5th page of comments right now and for a few minutes I realized I wasn't sure what you meant between 'social' comments and 'thinkers'.
Now I'm wondering if I've answered my confusion.
You don't CARE about our opinions concerning your ego, your status as an ATS member, your opinions and viewpoints, our perceived oversights of your statements, etc...what you want us to pick up FIRST is the questions that should have been generated in our brain upon reading your post. Anything less will not be 'meaty' enough for you.
Questions you've actually hinted at in subsequent comments: What is it about woman and the children they are raising that will change this society (or ATS) so much? Why do we younger generations expect our elders to care for the state of our existence anymore? Why, when you obviously know ATS is a worldwide community, do you stress the American role in the changes seen on ATS?
Then, once we have these questions, you want us to delve in and actually answer them...any comment less than that is frivolous, sheep-minded, and a waste of your time.

Or am I totally and utterly off-base?

I've reread your comments several times and having trouble understanding some of it, however I would begin by agree that you are off base. On the other hand you appear to be trying to think and I appreciate that.

You honestly don't know the difference between social networking Lemmings and someone with a brain? You can't determine between Zombies and someone with potential to be a Human Being?

Do you really not know the difference between being "educated" to the level that some of your elders (over 40) were and are, as compared to the under 40's that were socialized instead?

Hard to believe, but honestly, I can't believe what I hear whenever I converse with the younger generations but won't go into that except to mention that many of us still know what your group delusions mean to your future.

There's no two ways to cut it, the results are in and the proof is in the pudding that the under 40's are swimming in. The mothers have sacrificed their children on the Alter of their own weaknesses, and the teachers have done the same.

In America, the hand that rocks the cradle has indeed rocked the world, and there's no possible way IMO that any Nation can recover from 4 generations of destroyed youth.

I'd rather not listen to the Zombies scream as the ship goes down, but that's just a personal choice and I stress America because that's the specific culture with which I'm most familiar. I am sorry for what has happened.

However I do believe that the Zombie culture began in Europe with the Dog People.

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
I miss the old ATS. Way too many threads are being close for reasons that, to me...appear to be nothing more than adults openly discussing grown-up topics. I used to visit daily. Now its about once a week. What a shame.

I know, you're preaching to the choir. And it wasn't that long ago that I spent 3-4+ hours a day on ATS and damn eager to do so, now it's down to 30 minutes. Either I've changed or ATS has.

ATS is under attack from the socialized brain-dead Zombies trying to bring it into the life of the living. I refuse to put that sheet in my head.

And, I agree, it is a terrible shame... and disappointment too.

Let's all avoid the personal attacks, shall we?

It has no place on ATS and if it continues in the same way we'll have little choice but to take further action with thread closings, warns and even bans if neccesary.

Thanks in advance..

Guys,

I'm sorry.

Just happened to notice that I've been getting bumped for manners and decorum. Now I know what others have been talking about with their own efforts on ATS.

I don't know why but presume that it's been because I've pointed out various aspects of Zombie behavior. But ??

Just another example of politically correct censorship. Or socially for that matter but not worth the trouble to go through again. Thus will only respond to a few more later and then pack it in... for obvious reasons.

And I apologize... however you will have to admit that I made the effort and also realize, that this the reason the last 4 generations have only heard one point of view. I will refer you to Yeats 'Second Coming.'

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by Brown Bear

 

You have taken a "beating" in this thread....and although I probably represent everything that you dislike...an American woman, 40's, raised a "spoiled" daughter, or neglected....depending how you look at it, I worked long hours, divorced her Dad at 8 yrs. old.......and yeah, maybe through my 20's and 30's I was a "zombie" although I hate that term, I did the best I could with the "understanding I had at the time.

I do understand many of the points you are making, but your "contempt" is misplaced.....some very "sinister" forces have been at work for many years...and as you pointed out escalated in the last 40 years...the worst part is that so many really good people bought into this whole mess.

It gave me chills when you wrote something to the effect that basically it was "too late".....I absolutely don't believe that...Mother Nature is really in control...which I would also call "God".......meanwhile every opportunity we have to effect a "positive" influence heals us all.....

So...in my very "emotional" girly way...I reach out and ask you....Where do we go from here? Do you believe there is no hope?

Well spoken, and I agree with most of what you say. And, you have a story which is common in the past but not so much in the present. And I also think your "success" story should be heard more often.

Obviously you've been taught to think so think about what's happened to the traditional values in America looking at the big picture:

There last 4 generations have been raised different than mine or than those before mine. These current generations have been "socialized" instead of educated and it doesn't take many conversations with them to see it.

And you're right, I have taken a real beating, but of course I expected it and in another comment or two I will discuss exactly what it is that I think I'm doing. I don't dislike women but I do seriously "dislike" what they've done to their children. And, allowed to be done.

They were/are responsible for raising the children and if the children are not adequately raised, then the blame can only lie in one place, with the mothers. The hand that rocks the cradle rocks the world but do you see any taking responsibility for it?

Woman are social creatures and it clear that left to their own devices they will do what they do best, socialize. That's what they've done to 4 generations now and the results are everywhere to be seen, and not very pleasant to look at.

This has come about by the rejection of traditional roles where women worked at holding the home together and raising the children, doing both for the "sake" of the children (in the old days). Having largely abandoned
their children to TV and computers, and the fathers as well.

The majority of the children raised in single-parent households surely will be dysfunction (as we see everywhere) but worse yet, is the reality that women cannot raise little boys but instead force them into the social mold of little girls (naturally).

The thing is, and the reason for both your concern and mine, is that after 4 generations of largely socialized and nearly totally uneducated youth leaves our country and our culture with essentially no way up.

Are you familiar with the impact of the first 7 years? And the effort, time, energy and pain that it takes to change that early programing???

As you look around you see America's institutions crumbling everywhere and the question quickly becomes, have out children been prepared to pull out of this tailspin if the opportunity presented itself?

I think any truthful answer would include the word "NO." So the question is, "for what has the average child been prepared?" And my answer is, "for a life as servants (food, retail, IT) and the lowest of fodder (that will be culled).

Where are the upward trends. And incidentally, if you read John Taylor Gatto's History of Education in America, he makes the strong case that women were specifically brought into education to socialize,,, and not to educate, the Masses. And they've had great success at it.

And to add, that obvious seeking for God or a Higher Power is one of the answers, if not THE answer... and an excellent place to start in a society that has lost sense of the Divine and the Holy.

And also, social planners have known about the effect of women on male children since the time of the Greeks. Can you honestly believe that the foolish course we've taken with our children isn't planned?????

But Americans seem to be unable to access that history, and if they could, they'd realize that this isn't accidental, and then ask why? And then ask, where it's going?

Unless people with eyes to see begin to tell the unawakened what they see and forcefully encourage then to WAKE UP, then NOTHING will change/improve (by Man's hand anyway).

Originally posted by Brown Bear
...you will have to admit that I made the effort and also realize, that this the reason the last 4 generations have only heard one point of view. I will refer you to Yeats 'Second Coming.'

edit on 19-7-2012 by Brown Bear because: (no reason given)

There are always two sides to a coin.

Let's look at Yeats poem, shall we?

The Second Coming
The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats 1865–1939
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.


Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

www.poetryfoundation.org...

What, exactly is that 'stony sleep', if not a negative theological reference? I know that Spiritus Mundi relates to the notion that the welfare of the world is in God's hand, not ours (which has become increasingly dubious these days).

The poem denounces the status quo and applauds revolt:

"The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Originally posted by JustJoe
Totally agree with you on the quality of ATS dropping by a large margin so quickly...but to blame it on women and children is a little bit of a stretch, to say the least. I agree, more so in the vein that people who are unlearned and uneducated and certainly not open to a wider and more realistic paradigm come here to blast the free thinkers that embrace change as it comes and want to help mold that paradigm. Instead of blasting them back in a passive aggressive manner, why don't you help get people up to speed. Fight the fire of conformity with intelligence and patience for your fellow man, women and children...We need everyone and everyone needs each other...this is part of the human condition we over look the most in fear and terror...we physically and mentally need to feel LOVE in order to function properly. And with that I LOVE YOU ALL...even if I don't like one thing about you...I still can find LOVE for you because I too want to be LOVED unconditionally. When we love without fear...we open ourselves up to the creative forces of the universe. I have no idea where this is coming from but I felt compelled to write this....w/e

Please get the quote correct: comments from "children and the woman that raised them." There's a difference in my meaning if you think about it.

And I have articulated my reasons for these feelings. And I have been fighting the advance of the darkness for the last half of my life... and doing the best I could at it but in face of the Zombie on-slot I recently favor Truth.

Passive-aggressive??? There's nothing passive-aggressive about what I doing. The things I'm saying are intended to make an impression on those previously untouched.

Love is the Goal but not necessarily the Way (appearance) in the circumstances we find the world in today... which is, as you have noticed, being manipulated by fear and severely limited with Love, especially on an inhuman internet.

One of these days, and with a little thought, you may come to realize that we have the same goals, just different method. Go with God.

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by Brown Bear
...you will have to admit that I made the effort and also realize, that this the reason the last 4 generations have only heard one point of view. I will refer you to Yeats 'Second Coming.'

edit on 19-7-2012 by Brown Bear because: (no reason given)

There are always two sides to a coin.

Let's look at Yeats poem, shall we?

The Second Coming
The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats 1865–1939
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.


Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

www.poetryfoundation.org...

What, exactly is that 'stony sleep', if not a negative theological reference? I know that Spiritus Mundi relates to the notion that the welfare of the world is in God's hand, not ours (which has become increasingly dubious these days).

The poem denounces the status quo and applauds revolt:

"The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Excellent. I'm glad someone finally posted it and I hope there are more comments about it.

Actually, IMO, Spiritus Mundi refers to the "Earth Spirit" to which we depend, and is watching. And maybe Spirit World as the medium through which a Supreme Power works?

Yep, that's this a part which interests me too:
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

I guess the real question is which are you and which am I? And also the concept that without the eye of the spirit, all is Maya. Delusion and Illusion. Things may not be as they seem.

Another good question to ponder is what is "slouching toward Bethlehem?" And further, to wonder if we've really had 2,000 years of Christ's teachings? Or a stony sleep (as you observe). Devoid of inner the light. Just like a stone.

Please keep at it, the thinking about the Humanities I mean, as the answers are found there. Zombies do not see both sides of the coin, and certainly never the third side either or look beyond their conditioning.

reply to post by Brown Bear


No, see this is a shame that you have to call people names. All i said is if you dont like it then leave, you wont be missed. you can complain all you want with out name calling...


Peace

reply to post by Brown Bear


I appreciate the thoughtful acknowledgement of my post. You are making some very important points that NEED to be understood, and it would be a shame to not hear the message because your approach is a bit "prickly"...

I share my story here and in other threads because I am old enough to have watched this unfold, and only in the past couple of years have I really connected the dots on WTH happened? My Mom grew up in the 50's, good catholic girl "gone wild", I guess you could say, married my Dad and moved to Hollywood CA....my Dad wanted to be a rock star.

I was born in the 60's and my Mom became a heavy duty feminist, and opened an educational toy store, the idea was no war toys, and no "gender" specific toys, and no toys that were advertised on TV.....sounds good so far right? It was the "free to be you and me" generation and many celebs shopped in her store, this was the PC way "good" parents raised thier children....and I'm not saying the toys and some of the ideas weren't awesome, alot of teachers and educators (mostly women) also shopped in her store....she was a pioneer actually and many stores popped up in coming years using her store as a model.

These days my Mom would be the first to admit, she got some things wrong, especially about "gender"...lol...I think years of observing children and our family being blessed with my nephew convinced her that little boys and little girls are different, and they learn differently, and it is disturbing that in an effort to make things more "fair" for girls, the boys may have gotten the shaft in the school system. This tread to sedate little boys that won't behave is horrific, and it's such a shame that in middle school and high school most of the home ec. classes, auto shop, textiles, wood shop, horticulture, etc. classes have been replaced by very "test" orientated classes, with the goal being that the kids "should" be going to college.

I would have never dreamed of looking at my Mom and saying I don't want to go to college and have a career, I want to be a wife and a mother. So, I did what many women did, I tried to do both, and in my case I couldn't pull it off......now as much as I am willing to reflect and accept my share of the blame....money was a factor.....and it is very difficult to support a household on one income...and this is by "design" I believe. David Rockafeller is quoted as basically saying " The women's movement is a brilliant investment, doubles the tax base and gets control of the children early" ....God knows us Mom's have a burden to bare in this whole mess....but I would ask for some empathy on how much pressure women were under to "bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let you forget your a man".........which goes more like bringing home the "fast food", trying to deal with homework and bonding time with your child when you have a million things on your mind about work, and mountains of work still left to do once you get your child to sleep, barking at your spouse for not helping enough and falling asleep exhausted, only to wake up the next day and start the whole "juggling" act again.....

Sorry for the long and "emotional" post...and I hope I haven't gotten too much off topic, but that is my insights on what happened to us and our youth...and how that may reflect on newer ATS members. I am not saying all women should stay at home, infact I think there are probably some great Dad's out there that may be better suited to stay home then the Mom, but once you bring kids in this world, it needs to be someone's "main" job to raise them....I Love my daughter, she's smart, funny, beautiful....a social butterfly to be sure...but as her Mom, I have "damage control" to deal with to be sure...the saying "you reap what you sow" is sooo true.....

I am brand spankin new to ATS and your stale breath is like fresh air to me, this rant is an old one I am 37 and have been online since dial up and cyber'n- you get burnt out of forums and start to see patterns in the posts and if smart enough you'll realize sometimes you gotta stop- and sharpen your saw before you can keep cutting, mind you the forest is getting larger and maybe your afraid you'll lose your old timer status, but your obviously upset and begging for a shoulder to cry on.
I stumbled in her having deleted all my FB friends and being off line for 6 months lost and wandering around feeling alone because everyone calls me whacko because I am opinionated and believe the world is a hoax, and people don't want to hear that santa isn't real, so I have only been on here for an hour I feel at home finally, I turned off my cable tv don't read newspapers and now finally, I am home.
I don't really know what ATS used to be, but Ill tell you what, you aint seen nothing yet-

reply to post by PlayOnwards


Welcome, PlayOnwards. Sounds like you're waking up.

The OP touched on some very complex topics -- such as the intentional destruction of women & children in our society for the last 50 years -- and the creation of what the OP calls the latest generation of "Zombies" (the Living Dead).

There just might be hope that some of the young Zombies can be restored to human life.

AV

I had yet another encounter with a Zombie today and it went like this:

One of my workers brought his son to the job today to speak with me: The father is 38 yo and has worked for 6 months. During that time I've worked him hard at low pay for long hours. He has proven himself to be loyal, honest and true, and an excellent worker.

Over this period his living situation improved, nearly paid off his bills, and has pocket money now. In addition, I cosigned on his car loan, gave him a complete set of tools, and I've arranged a move to a much better paying job with an excellent employer in a couple of months when he's ready.

He deserves it and will soon be firmly back in the Middle Class and he deserves the leg up, help those who help themselves; but unfortunately, the same cannot be said for his 19yo son.

Clearly another Zombie... sideways shuffle, downcast eyes, weak woman handshake... fearful, uneducated but socialized... warped and twisted... and with his father standing behind him I gave my best advice: ...

"You have been raised by women, your mother and your teachers, any Male influence at all? Nope.
You know your mother is crazy don't you? A laugh and then "Yup."
What makes you think those other women aren't just as crazy as your mother? "Duh"
Look kid, you better stop listening to these women... they've made you into what you are, and damaged you severely... you can expect no help from them. If they knew how to help you they'd help themselves first, but they haven't because they can't.

What you need to do is stop listening to women and get them out of your life altogether. Connect as firmly as you can with your father and your grandfather and bring as many men into your life as possible. And finally, get smart, get a vasectomy that can be repaired in 10 years."

My Clinical Impression: No hope here. It's impossible to correct early life trauma without significant personal work and Individual Therapy, which won't happen. The kid is lost... like all the rest, and the only course of treatment is to encourage him to re-balance his energy which is totally female (naturally- little boys raised solely by women become little girls in their subconscious).

My Personal Impression: possibly a deeper Nature 'vs' nurture issue. Clearly this kid (like so many of the others) has been nurtured as a little girl and has adopted many female bad habits but there is a deeper consideration than the reordering of ying/yang forces in the boys, and in society in general.

The eyes are windows to the Soul and looking into this kids, in fact all of these kids eyes, is shocking (and painful) because they've been so badly beaten down. Considering the mind/body/spirit trilogy, it seems apparent that without progress on the first two... nothing will/can happen with the Spirit.

Another view spiritual matters is thinking, feeling and Willing... (Spirit=Will Power (get it?)) Without straightening intellect and emotion there can be no progress/evolution on the Spiritual front... as we see now and will continue to see well into the future... long after our society is destroyed from the imbalance of energy that has occurred.

Nobody escapes childhood conditioning. These Zombies were built by mothers and women. Nobody else has any influence on the children.

But another possibility is that there are as many Souls living now as have lived since the beginning of recorded history... So maybe Humanity's Well is running dry, the bottom of the barrel so to speak, and some people are being born with No Soul, or with greatly watered down Souls? Just a thought?