Long hair makes you more psychic!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by krossfyter
justification is .00001% of the universe. that's a lot. the rest is unjustified or never going to be justified.

I think we should strive to understand what we can understand. By learning about things, what they do, why they do it and how they interrelate to other things.

I don't believe that contemplating Master Hakuin is a way to do that, although it might be a nice way to pass the time.

technicity, reductionist mentality, logic and western monoculture is a hell of a drug. it thinks itself superior! humility is no where to be found. it thinks in binaries in a world of rhizomes. ego lesson.

Bedlam shows a great vigor in debunking something so innocuous. Is it the topic at hand which causes your distress or is it just the act of "debunking" that gets you going? Because you've put a lot of energy into this thread. I'd like to understand why. Does it bother you that people might grow their hair long and see for themselves? Does it bother you when you see others with long hair? Do you have a disdain for Native American spirituality and/or philosophy? What about samurai? They also wore their hair long and I'm sure they had their reasons. Shouldn't we track down their reasons and debunk those, too? Because, lets face it, long hair is a real problem that needs to be seriously addressed and thank God you're here to do it. Good show, ol' chap. I can't wait for your next installment of, "Science says your full of it."

Originally posted by InfiniteConsciousness
Bedlam shows a great vigor in debunking something so innocuous. Is it the topic at hand which causes your distress or is it just the act of "debunking" that gets you going? Because you've put a lot of energy into this thread. I'd like to understand why.

It intrigues me in several ways. There's a couple of different response types going on - you've got the incredibly credulous for whom the idea that hair is actually some sort of nerve cell that's connected into your telepathy centers is a valid possibility. You've got a few who will go so far down that line that they'll defend the fact that copper and hair both have tensile strength which somehow makes them both radio antennas. And you've got a bunch that read that "indian tracker" crap and snap it up at face value. For those guys, you could at least have a bit of hope that if you provide a bit of guidance on how to read hoax chain emails such as that one, you could assist them not to be as easily suckered. There are so very many problems with that thing.

Does it bother you that people might grow their hair long and see for themselves?

No, in fact I invite you guys to devise some sort of scientifically valid test that has sufficient sample size, is blinded and actually tests for the thing you're looking for with a minimum of confounders. Or to find some valid study that did. You guys seem to be about the purely subjective though, so good luck there. Vague feelings are the worst when you "see for yourself", it's a sort of placebo effect meets confirmation bias thing. If you grew long hair and could fart lightning or make your eyes light up bright green it might be a bit less anecdotal, but still you'd have a problem that short hair/no lightning is just some sort of conversion reaction instead of losing an ability. Testing for mental states is very difficult.

Does it bother you when you see others with long hair?

Nope. Does it bother you when you see others with buzzcuts?

Do you have a disdain for Native American spirituality and/or philosophy? What about samurai? They also wore their hair long and I'm sure they had their reasons. Shouldn't we track down their reasons and debunk those, too?

If they liked the way it looked, great! If they think it gives them telepathic powers and claim it on an ATS thread, bring 'em on, let's see.

Because, lets face it, long hair is a real problem that needs to be seriously addressed and thank God you're here to do it. Good show, ol' chap. I can't wait for your next installment of, "Science says your full of it."

And yet, are you guys not doing the same, only claiming 'metaphysics and very loose pseudoscience says it works because I feel all intuitive'? With "Sally [last name redacted for confidentiality] says she read a study from the War Department done 20 years after it was dissolved" sauce?

Dismissing the indian tracker thing as the dreck it is, so far all the arguments here for seem to be that you have some vague subjective feeling about it, reinforced by the belief that other cultures whom you admire had long hair. But other similar cultures did not. Is it that if you have long hair you're looking for some external validation that it also confers psychic powers or extra individuality or whatnot in addition? Any "indian tracker"/long hair=psychic believers on the thread with short hair?

reply to post by Bedlam



well to me im curious as to why our current society is so gun ho and kind of fascist on the whole short hair, cut your hair to fit into a system thing. thats rather curious to me. i wonder if it at all has to do with society wanting its players to be less individual and more drone, robot like for our western industrialization?

cut your hair for a job, cut your hair in the military, those with long hair are seen as abnormal or not right.

when in reality growing hair is perfectly natural. its what our body naturally does. cutting hair is synthetic is manipulation. dont get me wrong...i dont think cutting hair is wrong or right. its not about that. thats not what im questioning.

but our current society for whatever reason has programmed us to believe that growing hair is something abnormal or not right or out of step? it ridicules it even. sure you play things off and say its purely functional. that the military personal need to have clean heads for functional reasons etc. etc. but i say thats not all there is to it. there is symbolism to these things. something is up.

if hair is nothing really, its just hair and it has nothing to offer you other than something that gets in your way, something that is only about function, than why does our society have such a huge hard on stigma against it?

is it like how society has a stigma against natural hallucinogens and a proclivity for shoving caffeine down our throat? hallucinogens make you more aware and help you question whats behind the veil where as caffeine aids western industrialization, helps turn the systems wheels etc.


my curiosities on this matter lie in questions.

if someone can come along and lay some scientific empirical evidence on hair as a psychic tool or aid, or hair as a tracking tool or aid (as i think you are wanting to see) then great!

but just because it hasn't happened does not mean the questions are over for me. in fact the questions continue.

im not so against, or take a negative tone with those who believe (faith based i guess) that hair does have psychic or tracking abilities, to the point i make fun of them or question their credibility in a very proud and non humble manner. on the contrary i applaud them for having the against the grain-ness attitude of believing such things considering societies current stance against long hair types.

if i wanted to find a more scientific, empirical approach to find evidence of hair's psychic/tracking abilities than i would probably approach people on here a bit differently. you know instead of taking a combative attitude. more of a curious and humble approach would work. i know normally humans in our western society have a tendency to look down on those who believe in esoteric information or worlds or parts to our universe. you know they treat things that we dont know much about with fear and hate. i thing that is wrong. thats what i dont like.

those same people thought the world was flat.

reply to post by Bedlam


Oh no, I don't believe every person who I disagree with as being a 'shill'. In fact, I use that term to include anyone who just really attempts to derail a thread, even though they have no personal experience in the matter. Have you ever grown your hair to your waist? Intuition can't be put under a microscope and scrutinized, it exists for the people who experience it. The people who haven't are the ones who remain skeptical, although they have no real experience to draw knowledge from.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Oh no, I don't believe every person who I disagree with as being a 'shill'. In fact, I use that term to include anyone who just really attempts to derail a thread, even though they have no personal experience in the matter. Have you ever grown your hair to your waist? Intuition can't be put under a microscope and scrutinized, it exists for the people who experience it. The people who haven't are the ones who remain skeptical, although they have no real experience to draw knowledge from.

good point. very good point. people tend to talk down about things they have never done before or dont do or dont take part in themselves. sure somethings like crack or heroine or meth etc. you really dont need to do it to find out it ruins your life. why? you see it happen to tons of people through history. but with things like natural hallucinogens you cant say that. i think the expierence of growing your au natural hair is the same way. you know what your body does naturally?

Originally posted by krossfyter
reply to post by Bedlam

 

well to me im curious as to why our current society is so gun ho and kind of fascist on the whole short hair, cut your hair to fit into a system thing. thats rather curious to me. i wonder if it at all has to do with society wanting its players to be less individual and more drone, robot like for our western industrialization?

cut your hair for a job, cut your hair in the military, those with long hair are seen as abnormal or not right.

You see that a lot? In the sixties it was a big deal but I don't see all that many people caring these days, unless it's in a field where you have to have a good facial seal on a mask, like cops, firefighters, paramedics, that sort of thing. There are practical aspects where long hair and beards get in the way, and those would be three jobs in that category.

but our current society for whatever reason has programmed us to believe that growing hair is something abnormal or not right or out of step? it ridicules it even. sure you play things off and say its purely functional. that the military personal need to have clean heads for functional reasons etc. etc. but i say thats not all there is to it. there is symbolism to these things. something is up.

Well, I'm not just playing it off, it's true. You can't get a good seal on a mask with a beard. You can have a mustache to an extent. You really don't want long hair in the field, either, for sanitary reasons. I don't like lice, and it's a lot easier to keep a buzzcut clean with a little bit of wash water than hair down your back. But I see people with long hair, short hair, shaved, pretty much everything between in civilian life. There doesn't seem to be a societal bugaboo at present from my pov, although that certainly hasn't always been true. Even tats and piercings are becoming pretty much run of the mill as long as you don't look like tiger man.

Maybe it's just because I don't ever grow mine out past my ears that I don't notice it. I have seen people freak out when I'm full ZZ Top, the first time someone locked their car door when I rolled up alongside them I didn't know whether to be insulted or tickled.

is it like how society has a stigma against natural hallucinogens and a proclivity for shoving caffeine down our throat? hallucinogens make you more aware and help you question whats behind the veil where as caffeine aids western industrialization, helps turn the systems wheels etc.

Guess I'll never know on that one. The only time I got something that made me hallucinate it was pretty bad. Very odd, but bad. Luckily it was something the doc gave me, they had something to calm it down. If that's what's behind the veil, leave it down for me.

im not so against, or take a negative tone with those who believe (faith based i guess) that hair does have psychic or tracking abilities, to the point i make fun of them or question their credibility in a very proud and non humble manner...you know they treat things that we dont know much about with fear and hate. i thing that is wrong. thats what i dont like.

those same people thought the world was flat.

Not to be seen as attacking the metaphor, the same approach you don't seem to care for proved the world was round, and Erastosthenes got a pretty close guess as to the size about 250BCE. It was the Mesopotamians and Persians that thought it was flat. The Greeks pretty much never did.

I'm pretty much your antithesis - I'm full on empiricist. If there's no obvious mechanism for such a thing to be true, or even a reality-based conjecture as to how it could be true, at least some observational data demonstrating it's true nonetheless gathered in a way to preclude or at least reduce subjective input and intentional falsification, that's replicable whenever or whoever does the data gathering, then it's tough for me to accept. Two different world views, I suppose.

Originally posted by Bedlam
You see that a lot? In the sixties it was a big deal but I don't see all that many people caring these days, unless it's in a field where you have to have a good facial seal on a mask, like cops, firefighters, paramedics, that sort of thing. There are practical aspects where long hair and beards get in the way, and those would be three jobs in that category.

true. function. and there are jobs where functionally long hair is better.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Well, I'm not just playing it off, it's true. You can't get a good seal on a mask with a beard. You can have a mustache to an extent. You really don't want long hair in the field, either, for sanitary reasons. I don't like lice, and it's a lot easier to keep a buzzcut clean with a little bit of wash water than hair down your back. But I see people with long hair, short hair, shaved, pretty much everything between in civilian life. There doesn't seem to be a societal bugaboo at present from my pov, although that certainly hasn't always been true. Even tats and piercings are becoming pretty much run of the mill as long as you don't look like tiger man.

but you see function is only part of it. thats what im saying. not everything is just function.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Maybe it's just because I don't ever grow mine out past my ears that I don't notice it. I have seen people freak out when I'm full ZZ Top, the first time someone locked their car door when I rolled up alongside them I didn't know whether to be insulted or tickled.

zztop aesthetic is something to look up to.


]

Originally posted by Bedlam
Guess I'll never know on that one. The only time I got something that made me hallucinate it was pretty bad. Very odd, but bad. Luckily it was something the doc gave me, they had something to calm it down. If that's what's behind the veil, leave it down for me.

its not for everyone. not sure what you took. not every trip is good. but there is a reason the govt. wants it supressed and its not to protect you.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Not to be seen as attacking the metaphor, the same approach you don't seem to care for proved the world was round, and Erastosthenes got a pretty close guess as to the size about 250BCE. It was the Mesopotamians and Persians that thought it was flat. The Greeks pretty much never did.

actually i do care for both sides. im a libra so naturally i take a very center position. im just trying to center this for an appreciation for the esoteric and the mysterious of our universe. an appreciation for things we dont understand. an appreciation for not just throwing it away just because science cant explain what our ancestors new and worked with as their technology in their world of how things work, of nature etc. something that you seem to be not so appreciative of from my point of view. i can understand you wanting evidence or some form of proof with what the OP is saying but to take a combative attitude is another thing. excuse me if im just mis reading your frustrations with people talking mumbo jumbo psuedo science. i can understand that.

Originally posted by Bedlam
I'm pretty much your antithesis - I'm full on empiricist. If there's no obvious mechanism for such a thing to be true, or even a reality-based conjecture as to how it could be true, at least some observational data demonstrating it's true nonetheless gathered in a way to preclude or at least reduce subjective input and intentional falsification, that's replicable whenever or whoever does the data gathering, then it's tough for me to accept. Two different world views, I suppose.

true that. very true. i can accept and appreciate that. i like you for that. i would love someone to come out and bring forth evidence for this on this topic if it exists. but i wont turn away because no one hasnt. i keep questioning and my curiosity is still spiked!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by InfiniteConsciousness
Bedlam shows a great vigor in debunking something so innocuous. Is it the topic at hand which causes your distress or is it just the act of "debunking" that gets you going? Because you've put a lot of energy into this thread. I'd like to understand why.

It intrigues me in several ways. There's a couple of different response types going on - you've got the incredibly credulous for whom the idea that hair is actually some sort of nerve cell that's connected into your telepathy centers is a valid possibility. You've got a few who will go so far down that line that they'll defend the fact that copper and hair both have tensile strength which somehow makes them both radio antennas. And you've got a bunch that read that "indian tracker" crap and snap it up at face value. For those guys, you could at least have a bit of hope that if you provide a bit of guidance on how to read hoax chain emails such as that one, you could assist them not to be as easily suckered. There are so very many problems with that thing.

Does it bother you that people might grow their hair long and see for themselves?

No, in fact I invite you guys to devise some sort of scientifically valid test that has sufficient sample size, is blinded and actually tests for the thing you're looking for with a minimum of confounders. Or to find some valid study that did. You guys seem to be about the purely subjective though, so good luck there. Vague feelings are the worst when you "see for yourself", it's a sort of placebo effect meets confirmation bias thing. If you grew long hair and could fart lightning or make your eyes light up bright green it might be a bit less anecdotal, but still you'd have a problem that short hair/no lightning is just some sort of conversion reaction instead of losing an ability. Testing for mental states is very difficult.

Does it bother you when you see others with long hair?

Nope. Does it bother you when you see others with buzzcuts?

Do you have a disdain for Native American spirituality and/or philosophy? What about samurai? They also wore their hair long and I'm sure they had their reasons. Shouldn't we track down their reasons and debunk those, too?

If they liked the way it looked, great! If they think it gives them telepathic powers and claim it on an ATS thread, bring 'em on, let's see.

Because, lets face it, long hair is a real problem that needs to be seriously addressed and thank God you're here to do it. Good show, ol' chap. I can't wait for your next installment of, "Science says your full of it."

And yet, are you guys not doing the same, only claiming 'metaphysics and very loose pseudoscience says it works because I feel all intuitive'? With "Sally [last name redacted for confidentiality] says she read a study from the War Department done 20 years after it was dissolved" sauce?

Dismissing the indian tracker thing as the dreck it is, so far all the arguments here for seem to be that you have some vague subjective feeling about it, reinforced by the belief that other cultures whom you admire had long hair. But other similar cultures did not. Is it that if you have long hair you're looking for some external validation that it also confers psychic powers or extra individuality or whatnot in addition? Any "indian tracker"/long hair=psychic believers on the thread with short hair?

Thank you for the well thought out response. Now I've got a few more questions for you. Do you believe in the placebo effect? If so, why and how do you believe it works? What do you believe consciousness is and how it interfaces with our brain and the external / internal "reality"? Have you ever honestly investigated your own psychic ability? If you think indian trackers are a hoax or do not have better ability, welp, I've got this mighty fine bridge I want you to consider buying. Since you don't really know how they have better ability and can only offer flimsy speculation, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. I saw a comment of yours earlier in the thread about "antennae don't vibrate". Really? How do you know this? Because, from what I understand, everything in the Universe vibrates at different frequencies. How do you know that you cannot become in tune with these different vibrational frequencies and use that as an extra sense? The military has known about ESP ability for decades. Even going so far as to create a project based around this knowledge for testing and even employing it's uses. They stopped the project, in my opinion, because it scared the # out of the higher ups and the elites who pull their strings. There is good reason for them to stop this type of project because of the propensity to want to hide the truth. Think about that.

Originally posted by krossfyter

its not for everyone. not sure what you took. not every trip is good. but there is a reason the govt. wants it supressed and its not to protect you.

I actually wish I knew, it's pretty oddball. Was food poisoned out catting around München one night, got sick back at base and started yacking out my tonsils. They finally dragged me off to the doc, they started an IV and the guy said "This stuff works like a *in miracle" and bam shoots me up with it.

Well, a couple of my buddies were there, and I remember everything getting really weird looking like a J J Abrams movie with extraneous lens flares and sparkles everywhere, then things started slowing down and surfaces started sort of softening - not really sure how to describe it. I thought "this probably ain't part of the cure" so I said (I think) I'm hallucinating, what did you give me. That sort of thing being normal bs for me, the guys were laughing about it and I said no I really am hallucinating something's wrong, so the doc goes running out to get someone. I'm lying there and a big safe door appears in the wall, the door opens, and this dead nun wheeling a pram full of dead babies comes out. She rolls up to the stretcher I'm in, smiles, and then the whole thing sinks into the floor. I remember looking at my senior counterpart and saying "Kurt, did a dead nun just wheel some babies through here?" and he goes running out. About that time a nurse comes tearing in and gives me something else, end of trip.

Never figured it out, I can take zofran, phenergan and reglan, not sure what it might have been. Maybe inapsine. Anyway, I spent a few days trying to figure out where my subconscious dredged THAT one up from, who can say.

Originally posted by InfiniteConsciousness


Thank you for the well thought out response. Now I've got a few more questions for you. Do you believe in the placebo effect? If so, why and how do you believe it works?

Sure. I think you just readjust your expectations.

What do you believe consciousness is and how it interfaces with our brain and the external / internal "reality"?

Define "universe", give three examples.

Have you ever honestly investigated your own psychic ability?

I have a friend who appears to be a psychic who says I am an adept but suppressing it, which tells me she's likely not psychic.

If you think indian trackers are a hoax or do not have better ability, welp, I've got this mighty fine bridge I want you to consider buying. Since you don't really know how they have better ability and can only offer flimsy speculation, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

There really aren't "Indian trackers" in the military. There were combat trackers in the Army, but the MOS was eliminated in the 70s. So I dismiss it because they don't exist in the military. The combat trackers in Vietnam were not typically NA, and I haven't been able to identify any that were from public record. Nor did they have long hair, nor beards. So it seems to warrant dismissal as the flimsily constructed fable the "indian tracker" article presents itself as.

I saw a comment of yours earlier in the thread about "antennae don't vibrate". Really? How do you know this? Because, from what I understand, everything in the Universe vibrates at different frequencies. How do you know that you cannot become in tune with these different vibrational frequencies and use that as an extra sense?

Really. Because I have a master's in EE comm theory (another in physics), I design antennas. It's one of my primary jobs. No, they do not vibrate like some sort of plucked string. No, everything in the universe does not vibrate at different frequencies. That's a new age thing that tries to arrogate physics terms. Blame Blavatsky, she got that started.

The military has known about ESP ability for decades.

Instant career ender. No thanks. Only Deltas should play with goats.

Great job shucking and jiving mr. physicist, Bedlam....

You managed to avoid every single question I asked with a bunch of BS. Why?

You gave a ridiculously inadequate answer to my first question with a sentence I can barely understand how it addressed the question at all.

Why do you ask me to define "universe" and give three examples as an "answer" to my question about consciousness?

I never said Native Americans were military trackers. I simply made the point that they are incredible trackers. At least they used to be until genocide was committed against them and were corralled into tiny parcels of land, given liquor for their pain and casinos. I digress.

I seriously, don't know why I've given you the time I've taken to type this. Your flippant dismissals and "debunking" is hardly worth anything, let alone my time.

Originally posted by InfiniteConsciousness
Great job shucking and jiving mr. physicist, Bedlam....

You managed to avoid every single question I asked with a bunch of BS. Why?

You gave a ridiculously inadequate answer to my first question with a sentence I can barely understand how it addressed the question at all.

There you go. If you understood, you would have reached enlightenment.

Why do you ask me to define "universe" and give three examples as an "answer" to my question about consciousness?

Because the question was ridiculously wide and undefined. Thus I replied with a famous example of such a question. Think of it as a koan. In not answering you, I have answered you.

I never said Native Americans were military trackers. I simply made the point that they are incredible trackers. At least they used to be until genocide was committed against them and were corralled into tiny parcels of land, given liquor for their pain and casinos. I digress.

Ah, but the entire thread was about the supposed "indian tracker story" posted at the top. No doubt there were Indian trackers in the 1800s or whatnot. Whether they were better or worse than any other tracker on their native ground we'll never know. However, I do recall some stories of them being taken away from their accustomed territory and being no better than anyone else. Which would make sense.

I forgot to add way back that we can all probably or maybe relate to something at one time or another making the hairs on the backs of our necks stand up, or something similar.

Its all related, yes?