Why Europe's Laws On Vacations Are Better Than Your Wildest Dreams (and How Badly Americans Get Scr

Originally posted by James1982
reply to post by ThisIsNotReality

 

I think you misunderstood my post.

Europeans who bash America often call us lazy and spoiled. I don't know how you could get through life without hearing this at least once, you know it's true.

I'm showing the hypocrisy of such an insult. How is it that a European has the right to call an American lazy or spoiled, when Americans work longer, and harder, for less?

That's all I'm saying.... I'm not against Europe's workers laws. I think they are great. I'd absolutely love to have all the time off and other perks that the Europeans get.

What I am against is Europeans saying that Americans are spoiled and lazy when the opposite is true. It's a traditional case of the pot calling the kettle black. That's all I'm getting at. Like I said I think America should adopt the same worker's rights as Europe. I'm in total agreement with you that it's not right, natural, or healthy to work yourself to death and have no free time.

But people who are lucky enough to have all that time off and other rights have no place calling those that work harder and longer lazy or spoiled. Do you understand the hypocrisy in that?

Hopefully I explained myself well enough for you to get where I'm coming from, but I'll reiterate, I'm totally in FAVOR of Europe's workers rights, I think it's the right thing to do. I'm just against those Europeans that call Americans lazy and spoiled when obviously that isn't true.

edit on 7-7-2012 by James1982 because: (no reason given)

I'm in Europe, I hear lots of supposed things about Americans but tbh I haven't heard lazy or spoiled yet... Rednecks, fat, gun-crazy, uneducated,... those are more common around here, not that I agree with them, just saying that if the subject ever was to pop up, these would be more prevalent accusations.

So reading your post, from a point of view where I nor people I know, see Americans as lazy or spoiled, seemed rather like an attack on Europeans taking more time for things not work-related.

I understand now. I honestly believe even 8 hours a day is too much, some people are at home without a job, while others are working their asses off every day, something doesn't add up... So why I would call anyone lazy I don't know Lazy is good, beats stress Equally, people who love to work and get a good feeling or whatever out of it, should do so! But don't force it on everyone, I don't want stress nor do I want luxury, I want a nice relaxed life where I'm responsible for my own needs (always important to mention that) and don't have to pay for things I don't need or want to see realized (like wars paid for with tax money, war on drugs, too much government,...). How much less do you think you'd have to work if it wasn't for those over the top and completely unnecessary expenses?

I don't get how being able to have a good amount of vacations with health care and such would make one "lazy". The Europeans, as far as I know are paying taxes, which provide for these services that they take. So if they pay for something, why not use it and enjoy it?

No wonder Europeans are far less likely to support wars - they're not angry all the time! It breaks my heart to remember all the times when either my wife or myself had to make a choice between taking a day off and perhaps getting fired and staying home to care for a sick child.
One time I went to court with my wife and got fired for doing so. She was only facing 28 felony counts from a Federal investigation into College loan programs (all trumped up to make the Fed look like they were doing "good" work).
I can't count the number of stories I've heard of people losing their jobs over going to funerals or caring for sick kids. The way they conduct business in the US is insane, and it drives employees insane. Small wonder it's easy to get people behind blowing up some foreign country.

It's wage slavery and brutality, something I sensed even before I got out of school. My first job was washing dishes at a restaurant Friday and Saturday nights only. For - get this - $1.50 an hour. A whopping $15 for blowing my entire weekend washing dishes. 1974 - ah, the good old days!

I have to say, a lot of people in this thread are wrong.




In America you earn your Leather, in Europe you brag about it.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I am sorry to hear your predicament. If the establishment do not allow parents to look after their children, just how do the authorities expect them to raised as good and productive members of society.

To tell you the truth, if the authorities do not make laws that protect families then vote with your feet and immigrate to Europe.

You better not research paternity leave in Europe. It will make you sick.

Originally posted by megax5000
I don't get how being able to have a good amount of vacations with health care and such would make one "lazy". The Europeans, as far as I know are paying taxes, which provide for these services that they take. So if they pay for something, why not use it and enjoy it?

In Europe we do pay a lot of taxes for the welfare we get. We also have laws that make employers treat us workers well. Also our taxes are generally progressive so the rich pay almost the same proportions of taxes as workers do although at the lower earning band, tax is minimum.

Oddly enough, when you combine state and federal taxes, American pay as much as we do. On top of this, Americans either have to pay for health insurance or get it from an employer who could give the sack at any minute.

The wealth of the nation, that ought to benefit the people, is being swallowed up by the military industrial complex and corrupt big business.

Americans are brainwashed to believe the "hardworking" BS. You work hard in a job with little protection on conditions, pay, and hours, while making the guys at the top rich. Do you think they don't have extended vacations?

In the early 80s, I worked in NYC. I was just new there really. Only a few months in. I started at the reception desk but was soon helping out the sales staff. The owners of the company were looking for someone to run their computer section, which was staffed by women other than the guy who actually ran the mainframe. The owners interviewed quite a few candidates, one of whom was the woman who was essentially the leader of the data entry crew. Well, they decided to hire a kid right out of HS instead of this woman who was already familiar with the system and had been there for years already.

The owners then went on a two month vacation to Europe.

The data entry crew quit the same day. All of them.

The owners didn't abort their holiday nor make any adjustment at all. I jumped in and worked ten-hour days getting all the data entered for that two months. I worked like hell.

When the owners came back I didn't get a raise or a promotion or even a pat on the back. The top owner only said to me "I hope there aren't too many mistakes".

I quit on the spot.

Who wants to work in America?

Originally posted by truthinfact
It is true what they say, America is the hardest working country in the world. We are all sons ands daughters of pioneers and crazy asses who came over here on boats.

We work hard.


also worth noting, the entire european economy ist kaput. maybe its from all that "vacationing"

Taking 10 hours to do what could be done in 2 hours is not working hard.

It's called having an ego and being ignorant. We work harder than we need to because we are inefficient.

Nobody should have to put in 40+ hours a week. We have the tech to allow that not to happen.

The greatest asset any nation has is a well educated, happy, healthy workforce, who earn enough money to pay for a well educated, happy, healthy workforce, who work well, are happy working, and are healthy so they can work well.
break the circle, watch out!......

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Asktheanimlas - The American worker is treated like an animal if you ask me. A plowhorse to be exact, given just enough money to work their hardest the next day and when their energy and strength has been used up they will be sent to the knackers.

Familiar with the phrase Hell on Earth?
We're living it

Originally posted by ThisIsNotReality


I'm in Europe, I hear lots of supposed things about Americans but tbh I haven't heard lazy or spoiled yet... Rednecks, fat, gun-crazy, uneducated,... those are more common around here, not that I agree with them, just saying that if the subject ever was to pop up, these would be more prevalent accusations.

I live in Europe also and this is what I hear also. I have never heard the Americans refered to as "lazy".

No, what I have heard (and honestly what I have come to agree with somewhat), is that the Americans have their family life and culture suffer from too little attention. That their focus on work and money is the cause of lack of education and culture, lack of emotional and physical health. The people are becoming dumb, fat, ignorant, and bi-polar.

But they see this as a product of working too much. Being able to spend more attention and focus on your family and leisure/sport activities is considered essential to being a constructive part of your community. Having time to travel to other parts of the world and interact with different peoples and environements is seen as a way of strengthening culture and expanding the mind. Having enough time off is seen as best for everyone.

The criticism that this is the cause for economic problems is not sustainable. France and Germany are extremely productive countries and have the laws which give everyone several weeks of paid vacation each year.

The difference you find between France and Germany and say, Italy and Greece, is that the society places a high value on not working under the table! In Italy and in Greece, you find a lot of people evading paying taxes working undeclared. You have the mafia, and other illegitamate powers stepping in place of government.

So you have more people taking their paid vacations (and other financial benefits) than are paying taxes to pay for that.

In France and Germany, solidarity and social duty is valued, neighbors who find out their neighbor is making money under the table rat them out (Just had this happen in my village this week!).

Despite working less hours in a year, the productivity raises above that of the US. Being an American who moved to France, I saw the difference- when everyone gets two hours to go home and have lunch with their kids and spouse, when they can have six weeks to go on vacation with their family, when they have days off for playing sports and taking part in community celebrations, you get employees who work better and more efficiently.

But in order for that to work, a sense of solidarity and collective responsibility is essential. So I do not think the US with it's values upon individualism, would be able to do such a thing and have it work.