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Originally posted by getreadyalready
Originally posted by stanguilles7
Originally posted by getreadyalready
There is no employer, not even a menial factory job, or box loader at UPS, that doesn't want intelligent people that require little supervision.
Not true. If a higher up is insecure in their abilities, they will be afraid of those who they see as more capable. I've seen it happen quite a few times, even if its to the companies detriment. Remember, stupid people dont make smart decisions.
This is true, but it is almost always a temporary situation. Everyone has a boss, or some numbers they are responsible for, or some customers they are responsible for keeping. If a stupid person gets into a position of authority and makes a lot of bad decisions, they won't last.
You are right though, occasionally a boss will have a fragile ego and anything you do good will be a threat to them. In those cases, you have two choices. Get them fired, or get them promoted. I've always found it easier to do the best job possible, and give all the credit to my boss, and they love me, and they get out of my way pretty quickly. If that is impossible, then it becomes necessary to do very thorough record keeping, and CYA, and let them hang their self. That approach is very difficult and risky, but sometimes it is the only choice.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
I honestly do not see where I gave the impression that all workers were lazy, although I could see where it could be perhaps interpreted that a majority are naive.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Dragonfly79
I have known CEOs that were miserable as well, and janitors that were never without a smile. Happiness comes from within, not from a job.
The same with other low status jobs
There are no dishonorable jobs; only dishonorable workers.
The reality is, if we dropped the pay differential between the gardener and the engineer, we would have too few engineers and too many gardeners. The pay differences occur because of supply and demand, the exact same dynamic that is at present causing real wages to drop because of too many workers and not enough jobs.
Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. We can debate that. Does the debate even matter, though? That is the real question. Life itself is not fair.
TheRedneck
Originally posted by Dragonfly79
Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Dragonfly79
I have known CEOs that were miserable as well, and janitors that were never without a smile. Happiness comes from within, not from a job.
I can't agree. But if you need to believe that to be happy I won't argue.
It's the overall impression I get, entrepeneurs and business owners have worked hard, made sacrifices, took risks the employees did not have to make. The employees didn't choose to become employers, so they probably don't have what it takes, which employers do since well they start businesses and maintain them.
The lazy employers set up a business, hire people to maintain it then sit back expecting to cash in without having to work much, they just believe everyone should respect them forever (or until the company closes) for setting up the business, providing a workplace and wages and everyone should be OK with that because without him none of it would exist in the first place.
In response to the argument an employer can't just pack up their business and go someplace else like employees can quit and go someplace else. It's not that easy for an employee.
And in response to the idea of 'attack 1 employer and you attack them all'. That's just not true...
Most of the elderly don't understand how the young are born into a world of debt with a very bleak future. Some even expect them to be happy because the overall quality of living is better than what it was when they were their age.
What I meant is people who have high status jobs usually get better treatment. As if they would be worth more as humans than those with lower status jobs.
Yes the debate matters, change starts with dialogue, analyzing and interpreting problems, coming up with solutions the majority can agree with.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
That much I will admit to stating. Are you aware what it takes to start a successful company? Typically a small businessman will invest everything they have, their entire livelihood and savings, plus their time and hopes and dreams, into that business. The rewards are awesome, but the risks are astronomical.
When I got sick and my business closed, I lost it all... I went for years after that with no Internet, no TV, barely a roof over my head, scraping by to get food. I have never experienced that from leaving a company under any circumstances.
The lazy employers set up a business, hire people to maintain it then sit back expecting to cash in without having to work much, they just believe everyone should respect them forever (or until the company closes) for setting up the business, providing a workplace and wages and everyone should be OK with that because without him none of it would exist in the first place.
No, it's not that easy for an employee... but it is literally impossible for an employer! There is nowhere else to go, because employers have to make the places to go! That's the definition of an employer.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
How do you not agree? Do you not believe there are happy janitors or sad CEO's?
Or do you just not believe your own feelings and emotions are within your control?
Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Dragonfly79
~continued~I am beginning to suspect you might want to broaden your horizons a bit.
My impression of the younger generation, as a whole with a few notable exceptions, is a bunch of people who can not even imagine life without the luxuries that were not even available a decade ago... much less able to survive without them.
I'm sorry, but the advances in quality of life are literally massive. I will agree the debt is a major problem, something I have spoken out against many times, but remember that this debt is even more recent than the advances. It could also have been stopped before it began save for one thing: the entitlement attitude of the general population, the very thing I have been preaching against in this thread, and the very thing I have been debating with you.
Business worth is based on knowledge, skill sets, and the ability to utilize them.
If you try to equate personal worth with business worth, it is no wonder you are having trouble with the concepts I am trying to explain.
That happens where the desired results are within the realm of possibility. Not everything that can be dreamed is possible. Human greed is a constant that cannot be denied; people tend to look out for themselves first. Even your arguments in this thread place yourself and those in your position at greater priority than those who do not share as much in common with you.
That's not an insult, nor even a bad thing IMO. It simply is. While there is plenty of room for charity and chivalry and kindness to strangers, all things I personally value greatly, the core still harbors greed.
We can agree all decade long among 5 billion people that gravity should be weaker, with no one refuting the idea... and at the end of that decade gravity will be unchanged. It is what it is. So is human greed and resulting economic realities. No matter how much we debate whether or not they should exist, they will exist.
That debate, then, is an exercise in futility and completely moot.
TheRedneck
Yes I am aware what it takes.
To me what you are saying just comes across like you would want to paint a picture so you can make your employees believe you have earned that bigger share...
Believe me I've always worked for a company...
There are insurance policies for employers in case they get sick and are without income at least in my country that I know of, besides no offense intended and I'm sorry to hear you suffered but any independent should anticipate for events like illness.
So an employee has it less easy as there might be other companies to go but an employee can't make the places to go to while an employer has both options.
But then you would not be able to play the guild trip on the young who were not in that time when there was less luxury. They were not there, it's just not how their life is. They didn't choose to get born into this world how it is.
The youth will need all those luxuries to keep the system working, especially with the previous generation creating such a failing economy they are born into and are unable to change.
I still believe I have a point when I say the youth can't do anything about the suffering of the people before them...
There are some social studies which suggests...
Using the laws of physics to prove one's point in business or social matters, if only people could be convinced so easily.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
I'll just have to thank you for the conversation.
TheRedneck
Originally posted by Moneyisgodlifeisrented
Problem is not always the potential employees, it's the potential employer.
I've been denied more jobs based on the cold fact that I am more than able to perform the said job, that I am intelligent, And able to handle problems without having to ask a million questions about what to do next.
Employers don't want competent people, they want people they can use and not have them stand up for their rights. They want someone who is so afraid of speaking up so they don't loose their job that they are forced to work hours overtime without OT pay and other such likeminded corner cutting.
It happens, I've seen it and been denied employment just to see someone less qualified taking that spot. ( I'm an Honorably discharged AF vet ) But they'd rather have someone who needs to monitored and assisted.
This is the new face of employment in America, they just want to get as much work done for the least amount of price paid out.
if I sound a bit shatty, it's due to the fact I am, specially with this topic, so many think people don't want to work and thats why unemployment is high. It's further from the truth, it's the employers, not hiring perfectly fine people to do a job they are more than qualified to do, they aren't ghettofied, they aren't glamourtized, just dressed to impress and mindset to get a job.
But sadly people are sending out hundreds of resumes, applications, emails, and call backs but aren't getting anywhere, But the key thing here is, you can be under qualified and get the position faster than if you were overqualified.
I work from home now, after 2 and a half years sending out resumes and pestering places with call backs, I got tired of waiting and found a niche to rest in until true working class is needed again in this cess pool that onces was America.edit on 7-7-2012 by Moneyisgodlifeisrented because: (no reason given)