Symbols in Secret Societies

reply to post by Saurus


Now we're getting into Plato, Aristotle, Freud, Lacaan, Saussure and probably Derida, Baudrillard, Debord, etc…

You sure you want to go there?

What I'm getting at, is if I charge a sigil, it means something to me, and thus, in my own chaos magick, I can use it to influence my world. (Minor stuff—mind over matter; a bit of quantum entanglement; whathaveyou.)

But if someone else picked up my sigil it would be meaningless to them. It's representative, but only to me, because I gave it personal meaning. A spectator could ascribe their own meaning to it, and possibly even charge it with their own goals in mind and use it to achieve results, but that would not inherently be the same as what I'd originally designed it for.

Blowing that up to the corporate logo level, the McDonald's arches mean something to McDonald's Corporation, but they have no control over what meaning other individuals might associate with it. They can try to influence associations, but they have no more control than any other symbolic interpretation.

All the power lies in the eyes of the beholder, not the inscriber.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
All the power lies in the eyes of the beholder...

And as far as network dude is concerned, power lies with the beerholder and I have all of them.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by JoshNorton
All the power lies in the eyes of the beholder...

And as far as network dude is concerned, power lies with the beerholder and I have all of them.

summerslowrunner.files.wordpress.com...

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


Who says the devil wants you to think a certain way? I doubt there is anything satanic, or mystical about them.

Maybe the true meanings for these ancient symbols is not far off what they are used for now. Corporate logos. I expect that after the last reset of humans, that many things lingered on in the memories and over the years became mythology. Of course human nature being as twisted as it is, these logos no doubt identified corporations who got up to bad things, and it was ultimately the abuse technology (read magic) that led to the demise of the human race.

Now since then, and until relatively recently, only the "gods", and their priests, had the ability and permission to use magic, ie technology. Of course they forbade it, and demonised anyone who used it as satanic, not for the good of the people weilding it but so they can keep their control over the masses. As a lot of symbols are plastered all over technology now, it was likely so in the previous advanced human civilisation. And as with chinese whispers, the meaning got distorted along the way.

reply to post by Saurus

I too am a student of Symbols, I see them everywhere, on most everything, so not to see them is to be blind. Of late I have became aware of a great many products and services with Dragon Symbology. Also Symbols of Planet X.

I know that the Symbol of the Star is probably the oldest of symbols, the pyramid shape is another symbol from Ancient Times. Symbols are used in subliminal mind control too. Many religions revolve around symbols. A very interesting field of study.

reply to post by autowrench


Could you please explain to me how on earth a symbol could be used for mind control?

If it's only meaning is the meaning you give it, how could it possibly be used otherwise?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by autowrench

 

Could you please explain to me how on earth a symbol could be used for mind control?

If it's only meaning is the meaning you give it, how could it possibly be used otherwise?

If you are assailed with the same symbol over and over again, on TV, signs, posters, advertising, tee shirts, purses, that symbol will be in your mind solid. This is how advertising works, after all, repetitive input. The Cell Phone is a good example of this. People took to them like flies to honey, now everyone has one glued to their ear.

NSA Mind Control and Psyops

Mind Control The Ultimate Terror

The CIA Social Networking Surveillance System

Total Population Control

That is how.

Originally posted by autowrench
If you are assailed with the same symbol over and over again, on TV, signs, posters, advertising, tee shirts, purses, that symbol will be in your mind solid.

Which means all of jack, followed closely by $#!+.

This is how advertising works, after all, repetitive input. The Cell Phone is a good example of this. People took to them like flies to honey, now everyone has one glued to their ear.

But that's not mind control at all. I don't own a cell phone because an advertiser told me I needed one. I got it because it was useful to have. My first was an old Nokia that didn't really have any additional functionality other than being a phone. My second was a Blackberry, bought because I researched the features I needed, not because I EVER saw a Blackberry ad on TV. My 3rd (and current) is an iPhone. Again, not because of the advertising, but because I've owned only Apple computers since 1983, and I knew they were doing things right (again).

I can't think of a single product that I regularly see ads for that I actually purchase because of the ads. There's nothing informative about advertising for toilet paper or soda that's going to trump my own personal experience with toilet paper or soda.

So again, where's the mind control?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by Saurus

 

What I'm getting at, is if I charge a sigil, it means something to me, and thus, in my own chaos magick, I can use it to influence my world. (Minor stuff—mind over matter; a bit of quantum entanglement; whathaveyou.)

But if someone else picked up my sigil it would be meaningless to them. It's representative, but only to me, because I gave it personal meaning. A spectator could ascribe their own meaning to it, and possibly even charge it with their own goals in mind and use it to achieve results, but that would not inherently be the same as what I'd originally designed it for.

Good point...and especially tying it in to chaos magick (wonder if Pete peruses this board???? )

Originally posted by Saurus

Why, then, do Christians use a Cross when its original meaning predates Christ by thousands of years and was originally used by pagans in their rituals in the ancient faiths?

People use the same symbols for different things. The Nazis used the Hindu Hooked Cross for their own symbolism. Jesus never used any cross.Early Christians used the Egyptian ankh as symbol of their faith, because it already had the meaning of "eternal life". They were not fixated with Jesus being hung up on the cross of wood. Rather, they were fixated on what happened after that, the resurrected Jesus who demonstrated by his resurrection that he had this thing called "eternal life." But, later Christians changed the focus of the message, and instead began to use the cross that symbolized one had to crucify the flesh, to eliminate the evil passions, in order to follow Jesus and obtain that eternal life. But, Jesus himself, never said anyone had to "do" any such thing. He'd done it, and paid the price, so that we didn't have to crucify ourselves anymore, to get salvation. Just be yourself, and with faith, salvation and eternal life are our inheritance automatically, by the grace of God, and not by any work or effort on our part to get there. No man has the power to "save himself", to overcome this world of passions and evil, by trying hard in some special way. That's why I'm amused when I hear things like "make good men better", because God made men, some are good, some are evil, and nothing changes that design. No work, ritual, or performance of labor, makes men better. They are who they are, and whatever changes we imagine we see, is just the effect of putting the same man into a different environment, and watching him do different things. But, inside, there's the same intent, the same motivations, the same constructed soul acting out that new drama.

reply to post by NAMTERCES


Well said...
I thought not quite like that before. Thank You.

What is meant by the "Take Good Men And Make Them Better" is:
The idea imposed on idividuals by others and environments and politics and religions... is removed to allow the person to aspire to be themselves and establish themselves and to promote themselves to a more suitable standard. Many men do comprt with society... some go as unsung heroes whilst others do not.
It is merely the legacy of the story of themselves being crafted with precision and perfection.

Haha!! This is a funny thread.

People are always talking about symbols and illuminati mind control. Blah!!

That is like saying ''I see letters everywhere!!''. Because, well, it is true. I see letters on the screen and in newsprint and on road signs. Holy cow!! It is the letters!! The LETTERS!!!

Silly.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by autowrench

 

Could you please explain to me how on earth a symbol could be used for mind control?

If it's only meaning is the meaning you give it, how could it possibly be used otherwise?

Show a Swastika and a carefully chosen photo to a Jewish child who's mother was killed in the war, and the immediate effect on their consciousness opens them for a few minutes to suggestibility. During the suggestible minutes, you could do quite a lot with their subconscious.

I would hazard a guess that you could do more with someone else in this way than charging a personal sigil, for example.

@Josh and CIAGypsy: I suspect you are more followers of modern magick where the actual creation of a sigil, and charging it, is where all of the power of the symbol exists.

However, never forget that all of the Moderns, such as Spare, have their origins in older beliefs such as Agrippa et al. who believed that there was inherent power in certain symbols, (and consequently, that if you drew a symbol wrongly, it would not have any power - ie. right and wrong symbols).

While I am much more predisposed to the modern way of thinking, (and personally I agree with both of you), I never totally discount the possibility that they may have been right to some extent. A philosophy founded on a lie cannot be right. If there is any truth in Spare's work, then it's origins must have had some truth too.

reply to post by Saurus


Saurus,

Personally I believe that no one has a true objective knowledge when it comes to hidden mysteries because that evolution toward true knowledge is what enlightenment...and life...is all about. So we all should have some acceptance that our perception of reality is skewed, flawed, and subjective.

That being said, I am well versed in the beliefs of Agrippa, as should any educated magician. And I do agree that there are some symbols which contain inherent power - such as Tau, the cross, the hexagram, and so more. These symbols tend to be universal in nature although it certainly can't be discounted that modern society may appropriate a certain belief with them.

My point previously is that symbols can act as a spiritual alchemy on your subconscious, whether you are aware or unaware of those changes. However, it can also be said....as Josh pointed out with the chaos magick example....that one can derive a symbol and charge it with intent that also has the power to create and change life.

Originally posted by Saurus
However, never forget that all of the Moderns, such as Spare, have their origins in older beliefs such as Agrippa et al. who believed that there was inherent power in certain symbols, (and consequently, that if you drew a symbol wrongly, it would not have any power - ie. right and wrong symbols).

The argument goes back to Aristotle and Plato. When I say "tree", you picture something in your mind that becomes the archetypal "tree" to you. The one in your imagination is different than the one in my imagination. Thus, no universally agreed upon "correct" symbol for a tree-like thing.