A Challenge to All Humans

I challenge all human beings to read this article in full and then ask themselves how we in the Western world are going to find a solution to the mixing of such different mentalities. Doing so, right now, is resulting in the sexual harassment and rape of non-muslim women and the pressure to blend in in muslim areas by wearing headscarves.

www.newsrealblog.com...

Can you bring yourself to read it all while many women are forced to live in hostile environments in daily fear for their own safety?

reply to post by TheFogHorn

Damn, what century is this again?!?! To think 13 year old girls had it tough here in the west without religious implications, yikes. Hell, with all the arms we provide these countries, can't we send some to the women of these areas? I mean, I am not a big gun fan, but how the hell are women supposed to live in that crap? Is this sporadic behavior and expectations or the general practiced rule? I wonder what percentage of Muslim women accept this as normal? How the heck can women sit back and watch this happen to their youth? Is it because they fear speaking up?

To the point of 'merging' cultures, between condemnation from their own religion coupled with hatred from many outside their religion, especially when made aware of these types of practices, maybe it's time to find a new religion, or none at all. Maybe these are growing pains(not meant to be insensitive) as the two begin to merge and eventually adopt some more positive aspects from each other. I know there have to be many Muslims that do not agree with these things, right? I mean it is inevitable the 2 cultures will clash and co-exist in many areas, and maybe these oppositional encounters are how real change can occur, via travesty and cruelty which will draw attention and efforts for change. I don't know though, it seems surreal in it's frankness, pride and entrenchment.

Dear TheFogHorn,

Hello, again. I have to agree with your implied conclusion. The two cultures cannot live together. "Good fences make good neighbors."

I ran across a quote from that 1993 movie, Demolition Man

...I like to think, I like to read. I’m into freedom of speech and freedom of choice, I’m the kind of guy who likes to sit in the greasy spoon and think; should I have the t-bone stake or the jumbo rack of BQ ribs with the side order of gravy fries. I want high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and buckets of cheese, ok. I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section, I wanna run through the streets naked with green jell-o all over my body, reading Playboy magazine, why? Because I might suddenly feel the need to, ok pal?

Of course, in the Islamic cultures you will be immediately executed for this. Are we too afraid to fight to preserve freedom? I suspect that large groups of us are.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by TheFogHorn

 

Damn, what century is this again?!?! To think 13 year old girls had it tough here in the west, yikes. Hell, with all the arms we provide these countries, can't we send some to the women of these areas? I mean, I am not a big gun fan, but how the hell are women supposed to live in that crap? Is this sporadic behavior and expectations or the general practiced rule? I wonder what percentage of Muslim women accept this as normal? How the heck can women sit back and watch this happen to their youth? Is it because they fear speaking up?

Speaking up is like putting your head in the firing line....and that is for women in the West who suffer or have suffered muslim sexual harassment and abuse. Look at the venom I received (some now deleted) from supposedly liberal and Westernised men after I spoke about my experiences as a teenager in a muslim ghetto. Not one person in that thread showed any sign of being shocked, worried or sympathetic. Absolutely disgusting and what a terrible sign it is for the future?

It's happening throughout the muslim world and now the muslim world has arrived in our world and is not going to change.

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear TheFogHorn,

Hello, again. I have to agree with your implied conclusion. The two cultures cannot live together. "Good fences make good neighbors."

I ran across a quote from that 1993 movie, Demolition Man

...I like to think, I like to read. I’m into freedom of speech and freedom of choice, I’m the kind of guy who likes to sit in the greasy spoon and think; should I have the t-bone stake or the jumbo rack of BQ ribs with the side order of gravy fries. I want high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and buckets of cheese, ok. I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section, I wanna run through the streets naked with green jell-o all over my body, reading Playboy magazine, why? Because I might suddenly feel the need to, ok pal?

Of course, in the Islamic cultures you will be immediately executed for this. Are we too afraid to fight to preserve freedom? I suspect that large groups of us are.

With respect,
Charles1952

Great quote. I'm not too afraid to fight to preserve freedom and I know exactly what it is going to take to do it.

Ill start by saying that yes I am concerned about the wests culture being changed due to pandering to immigrants concerns, you move to someones country YOU adapt not the other way around.

Having read the article I gotta say that its completely retarded fear mongering at its finest, anyone with half a brain can see it for the uneducated thinly veiled racism that it is.

The people who are doing the kind of things mentioned in the article are about as muslim as the people who blow up abortion clinics are christian.

Dont believe everything you read in blogs people

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I'm surprised you think it's all about racism. My objection is to the acts committed. Besides there are too many Muslims from different countries and races for me to think in racial terms. I may be isolated, but I don't know of anyone who sees this as a racial problem.

The people who are doing the kind of things mentioned in the article are about as muslim as the people who blow up abortion clinics are christian.

Look at motivation first. I would argue that most attacks on abortion clinics and their workers are designed to protect innocent life, not forward a particular denomination or religion. That is certainly not true of Muslim attacks.

Second, consider frequency. I would wager a penny that you can't find 50 murders or attempted murders of abortion clinic workers total in the last 35 years anywhere in the US. Heck, throw in Canada,too. 50 deaths for religious reasons? That's not even a tough month in the world of Islam.

Third, is it a fringe activity? Islamic governments allow these horrendous rapes and murders to occur with out inteference, Islamic religious leaders preach it as a duty, Islamic citizens follow to protect their "honor." It's part of their society in a way that abuse never will be here.

From Sir General Charles Napier:

"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs."

reply to post by charles1952


Sorry perhaps Xenophobia is a more appropriate word than racism.

Look at motivation first. I would argue that most attacks on abortion clinics and their workers are designed to protect innocent life, not forward a particular denomination or religion. That is certainly not true of Muslim attacks.

The fact you make any excuse or justification for the above just tells me we are on completely different wavelengths.
The attacks are done in the name of christian values.

Second, consider frequency. I would wager a penny that you can't find 50 murders or attempted murders of abortion clinic workers total in the last 35 years anywhere in the US. Heck, throw in Canada,too. 50 deaths for religious reasons? That's not even a tough month in the world of Islam.

I agree they are no where near as common as the things in the article but thats look at where these people are from, Rural areas of Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Middle east. They may live in the UK but they havent assimilated and may as well be back home. It wasnt to long ago in our civilised western society that it was perfectly acceptable if maybe not legal to beat ur wife, I think it was only 20 or 30 yrs ago in Australia that the courts accepted rape could happen in marriage.

The cultures these people come from have treated women this way long before Islam came along, if they were true Muslims they would not behave this way.

Third, is it a fringe activity? Islamic governments allow these horrendous rapes and murders to occur with out inteference, Islamic religious leaders preach it as a duty, Islamic citizens follow to protect their "honor." It's part of their society in a way that abuse never will be here.

Yes it is a fringe activity, having travelled quite a bit I can tell you people the world over are basically the same. The average person wants to have a job, food and a roof over their head. Find someone they can spend their life with and raise children to have better lives and better opportunities than they did. Whether Christian, Hindu, Muslim or atheist Ive found this the norm. The Muslims you hear about are not the majority they are the sickos our media chooses to bombard us with.

Having said all of that I dont really like Islam, I live in a predominantly Muslim country and have not once come across any of this type of Muslim you think represents the majority of them but the religion is too easily misinterpreted and at its core I feel its to violent and harsh.

The cases highlighted in the media and the blog you linked are statistically rare.

As for the Western women being molested in muslim countries, and especially backward ones like Pakistan. I dont have a great deal of sympathy, If the custom in the country ur in is for women to go around veiled do it or expect to be treated differently. What do you think would happen to an Amazonian tribes woman who walked around naked in the Jungle decided to do that in New York or Toronto?
Basically when in Rome do as the Romans, either that or dont go or dont complain if you do.
If we expect them to adapt to our ways when they come to our countries to not do the same when we go to theirs is just being hypocritical

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Ill start by saying that yes I am concerned about the wests culture being changed due to pandering to immigrants concerns, you move to someones country YOU adapt not the other way around.

Having read the article I gotta say that its completely retarded fear mongering at its finest, anyone with half a brain can see it for the uneducated thinly veiled racism that it is.

The people who are doing the kind of things mentioned in the article are about as muslim as the people who blow up abortion clinics are christian.

Dont believe everything you read in blogs people

The article is extremely accurate if compared to my real life experiences of living in a muslim ghetto and being sexually harassed on a daily basis. Do you speak from experience? Have you ever lived as a young and attractive woman in a muslim ghetto?

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


QUOTING YOU: 'Basically when in Rome do as the Romans, either that or dont go or dont complain if you do.
If we expect them to adapt to our ways when they come to our countries to not do the same when we go to theirs is just being hypocritical.'

So, conversely, you believe muslim women should adapt to our ways when living amongst us? I do hope you do believe they should be as respectful of our hard fought for way of life as we are supposed to be of theirs when we live amongst them in muslim lands. If not, and you believe muslim women should be allowed to live just as they would in say Saudi, that of course means they then detrimentally affect our way of life in an indirect way....and the men, with their lack of 'cultural composure' seriously detrimentally affect our way of life in a very direct way.

So, in short, Western women lose in their own countries and in muslim countries. Expect to get mollested and looked at like walking muck ladies because you cannot escape the muslim cultural enrichment wherever you are and you can be sure of one thing.....it's only ever going to get worse....closer to home....and personal.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

QUOTING YOU: 'Basically when in Rome do as the Romans, either that or dont go or dont complain if you do.
If we expect them to adapt to our ways when they come to our countries to not do the same when we go to theirs is just being hypocritical.'

So, conversely, you believe muslim women should adapt to our ways when living amongst us? I do hope you do believe they should be as respectful of our hard fought for way of life as we are supposed to be of theirs when we live amongst them in muslim lands. If not, and you believe muslim women should be allowed to live just as they would in say Saudi, that of course means they then detrimentally affect our way of life in an indirect way....and the men, with their lack of 'cultural composure' seriously detrimentally affect our way of life in a very direct way.

So, in short, Western women lose in their own countries and in muslim countries. Expect to get mollested and looked at like walking muck ladies because you cannot escape the muslim cultural enrichment wherever you are and you can be sure of one thing.....it's only ever going to get worse....closer to home....and personal.

Yes I do believe when in Western countries Muslim women should adapt, Im 100% behind Frances banning the burka thing.

Whether in a different culture to live or for holiday you should follow their rules, if you dont like their rules its quite simple DONT GO.

In response to ur other post, No I cant say Ive been a hot girl living in a Muslim ghetto, realistically I doubt things would be much different in a hindu ghetto in India.
The people doing all the things you guys are talking about are not real muslims, they just happen to be born into a Muslim culture that was misogynistic and Chauvanistic prior to Islam even being around.

Out of curiosity where is this Muslim ghetto you lived in and what were the circumstances of you living there?

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

Dear IkNOwSTuff,

Thanks for treating this seriously.

I do not and did not excuse or justify clinic worker murders. The purpose was to show their relative rarity compared to Islamic religious killings. I think there has been one clinic worker murder in the last ten years, but I might be off by a bit.

The Pew Global Polling organization has some interesting numbers. They asked Muslims in various countries if suicide bombings of civilians was justified or sometimes justified in the name of religion. Their May, 2006 studied showed the following percentages of Muslims that believed it was justified:
French Muslims 35%
Spanish Muslims 25%
British Muslims 24%
Nigerian Muslims 69%
Jordanian Muslims 57%
Egyptian Muslims 53%
www.pewglobal.org...
Can these numbers be questioned? Sure. Are they in the single digits where they belong? No, Is there a religious violence problem among Muslims, that doesn't appear among Christians? Yes. Islamists still scare me.
I'm looking for evidence to show that it's just one or two per cent that have "fringe" ideas. Got any?

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to [url= by IkNOwSTuff[/url]

 

Dear IkNOwSTuff,

Thanks for treating this seriously.

I do not and did not excuse or justify clinic worker murders. The purpose was to show their relative rarity compared to Islamic religious killings. I think there has been one clinic worker murder in the last ten years, but I might be off by a bit.

Well.... there's been 8 deaths since 1993 in the US due to attacks on abortion clinics,17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers. Along with 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons and 619 bomb threats.

The Army of God would have words with you

Source

reply to post by Prezbo369

Dear Prezbo369,

Thanks for making me check my source, which, apparently is the same source as yours.

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.

I think Tiller is the only death in the last nineteen years. Perhaps one of us misinterpreted our data. In any event, I think the point remains that there are few clinic deaths and that many of those are not for religious reasons, but to save a life. Also, the stats seem to be from 1977 to present.

Islam seems to have religious deaths all over the place, and I am more concerned about those religious homicides.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff

Originally posted by TheFogHorn
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

QUOTING YOU: 'Basically when in Rome do as the Romans, either that or dont go or dont complain if you do.
If we expect them to adapt to our ways when they come to our countries to not do the same when we go to theirs is just being hypocritical.'

So, conversely, you believe muslim women should adapt to our ways when living amongst us? I do hope you do believe they should be as respectful of our hard fought for way of life as we are supposed to be of theirs when we live amongst them in muslim lands. If not, and you believe muslim women should be allowed to live just as they would in say Saudi, that of course means they then detrimentally affect our way of life in an indirect way....and the men, with their lack of 'cultural composure' seriously detrimentally affect our way of life in a very direct way.

So, in short, Western women lose in their own countries and in muslim countries. Expect to get mollested and looked at like walking muck ladies because you cannot escape the muslim cultural enrichment wherever you are and you can be sure of one thing.....it's only ever going to get worse....closer to home....and personal.

Yes I do believe when in Western countries Muslim women should adapt, Im 100% behind Frances banning the burka thing.

Whether in a different culture to live or for holiday you should follow their rules, if you dont like their rules its quite simple DONT GO.

In response to ur other post, No I cant say Ive been a hot girl living in a Muslim ghetto, realistically I doubt things would be much different in a hindu ghetto in India.
The people doing all the things you guys are talking about are not real muslims, they just happen to be born into a Muslim culture that was misogynistic and Chauvanistic prior to Islam even being around.

Out of curiosity where is this Muslim ghetto you lived in and what were the circumstances of you living there?

edit on 2-7-2012 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

I go by what happens so if women in a Westernised country, say England, are suffering sexual abuse disproportionately due to muslims then it is muslims, their culture and their religion that are to blame. You say only 30 years ago Australians were not much better. What you fail to mention is that in that time religion has dropped like a lead balloon. Lots of things go to create the end result...the behaviour....and religion is the biggest part of the equation. If the vast majority of child sex abuse and pimping is commited by muslim men then the religion has something to do with it. The religion formed the minds. As it happens, England has very very hot spots for just this thing and they are all in areas predominantly home to muslims. Google or Youtube 'Muslim grooming rochdale'.

Are you seriously trying to get me to let everyone know my former location and finer details, which could of course reveal who I am?

I think it's painfully clear that Americans and Canadians are blissfully unaware of what lies ahead for them. There seems to be very few people on these forums who have a clue of what is happening in England and what happens here will happen to you. Mind you, there are plenty of people in England who don't have a clue either....or choose not to.

The article states 98% of Egyptian foreigners were sexually harassed....

However, the story does not end at foreigners.

' 98 percent of foreign women polled said they had been sexually harassed. And about eight out of 10 Egyptian-born women said the same thing. She also surveyed Egyptian men, and almost two-thirds of men polled actually admitted that they harassed women. And before the holier than thou start preaching that this only happens when women are uncovered, no it does NOT. One of the most important aspects of this study was that it found that 72.5% of victims surveyed were wearing hijab when they were sexually harassed. It happens to all women, even ones that are in full niqab, under several layers of cloth . This survey may superficially shatter the claim that hijab does protect from molestation.'

Taken from muslimmatters.org...

where you can also read some personal accounts from muslim women about their experiences.

So this explains why, despite me wearing a long hooded coat and boots during my life in the muslim ghetto I still had to fend off unwanted attention, approaches and insults. Even if I had worn a large cardboard box covered in barbed wire I would probably still have been sniffed out by animalistic males. Muslim men are seriously lacking in their ability to control themselves and clearly sexually objectify women despite the obvious efforts of women to avoid being objectified.

The solution to this problem is not for women to cover up more but to educate or remove the men. Some bright spark on the other 'challenge' thread suggested it would be a good idea for a non-muslim woman to cover up more in muslim areas. Well, there really is no other option unless you want to martyr yourself, but that is not the long term solution. If that is the only help from non-muslim men in the Western world then the Western world is going to sink into a pit even stinkier than Afghanistan because by then there will BE no Western world to hold back the Islamists and there will also be no where for anyone to run to. The solution starts, and might end, with the removal of the religion, the clothing, the segregation, the mosques, the Muslim schools, the muslim Sharia Law (alive and well in England).