Did Roberts Actually Help Bring Down Obamacare?

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by seabag

 

Oh boy....

They didn't rule the entire bill is a revenue bill...they ruled the penalty is a tax.

The bill already had plenty of taxes in it...defining one more portion as a tax doesn't change anything at all.

What don’t you understand about it?

If there is no TAX then there is no MANDATE and no FUNDING.

The entire program is build around this TAX…..how do they continue with no funding?

You can't repeal just part of a bill...you have to repeal the entire bill.

This is not a revenue bill...they will still need a super majority to repeal it.


Keep the wishful thinking going though....I guess that is better than facing reality.

reply to post by neo96

The scotus ruling opened a door 51 votes and it is gone, no super majority is needed.

Explain, in detail, what that is the case.

What in the ruling changed about the bill that now it only requires 51 votes.

I realize you guys are just repeating what you are hearing, and that you don't understand exactly what you are saying...but at least give it a try.


What has changed about the bill? Remember...it already contained taxes and the penalty was always enforced as a tax...which is why it was upheld.

So....what changed???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Oh boy....

They didn't rule the entire bill is a revenue bill...they ruled the penalty is a tax.

The bill already had plenty of taxes in it...defining one more portion as a tax doesn't change anything at all.


I understand Republicans are desperate to find a silver lining...but you guys are looking silly grasping at every single straw someone comes up with.

My comment was that the bill already had taxes.

You tried to use that to say Obama is raising taxes on everyone...which is false.

If you need to refresh your memory, the above is exactly what you said!!!

You admitted that the bill had "plenty of taxes in it"! You did NOT say that it was for corporations, or people who made 250k or more!

You said it not me!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

OBAMA: Well, hold on a second, George. Here — here’s what’s happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average — our families — in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what I’ve said is that if you can’t afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn’t be punished for that. That’s just piling on. If, on the other hand, we’re giving tax credits, we’ve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we’ve driven down the costs, we’ve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you’ve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that’s…

STEPHANOPOULOS: That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.

So people are going to be given "tax credits" which we all know is they are not paying for the full cost of the care received which means the difference has to be made up by how?

TAX INCREASES.

abcnews.go.com...

The only explaining that anyone has to be doing is Obama and the left for voting the bill in to law since NO SINGLE Repuiblican voted for it.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by neo96

 

The scotus ruling opened a door 51 votes and it is gone, no super majority is needed.

Explain, in detail, what that is the case.

What in the ruling changed about the bill that now it only requires 51 votes.

I realize you guys are just repeating what you are hearing, and that you don't understand exactly what you are saying...but at least give it a try.


What has changed about the bill? Remember...it already contained taxes and the penalty was always enforced as a tax...which is why it was upheld.

So....what changed???

It’s funny how the truth about what has happened makes you more and more condescending towards others!

Maybe this will help you:

Reconciliation was used to push Obamacare through the Senate in 2009. Generally reserved strictly for budget-related measures, it eliminates the possibility of a filibuster, meaning Republicans would only need 51 votes to repeal that portion of the law – or even the full law itself.

A senior Senate Republican aide involved in the repeal effort later confirmed to Scribe that the GOP will use the budget reconciliation process in an attempt to repeal the full law, not just the portion requiring all Americans purchase health insurance.

link


Now run along and do your homework!

So pushing grandma off the cliff wasn’t enough, huh?

reply to post by seabag


Pushing grandma off the cliff was a politically motivated fear tactic by conservatives to get people to question the health care law. Lets put the blame where it belongs.

As far as my point was concerned, there are real people who are fighting for their lives out there who held onto hope that this law wouldn't be ruled unconstitutional. They can now breath a sense of relief. Unless you or I are in that same predicament, we have no idea how this law may change lives for the better. This law can easily be tweaked to make sure it doesn't do more harm than good.

Maybe conservatives and the tea party need to give this a rest.

reply to post by WeRpeons


You need to go back and read the bill again. It does not cover pre-existing conditions. May you want all your medical records and health care turned over to the IRS. I certinly don't they are nothing but tax collectors who have no interest in caring for anyone but themselves. This rule just made them angels? HA

reply to post by seeker1963

You admitted that the bill had "plenty of taxes in it"! You did NOT say that it was for corporations, or people who made 250k or more!

And?

It does have plenty of taxes in it...it doesn't matter who the taxes apply to...the bill already had tax code in it.

You are still grasping.

reply to post by seabag

Reconciliation was used to push Obamacare through the Senate in 2009. Generally reserved strictly for budget-related measures, it eliminates the possibility of a filibuster, meaning Republicans would only need 51 votes to repeal that portion of the law – or even the full law itself.

Speaking of filibusters the Democrats were trying to change the Rules of congress to end that.



www.npr.org...

reply to post by seabag


The health care bill wasn't passed using reconciliation.



Aren't Republicans being a bit hypocritical if they use reconciliation after they went crazy when Obama suggested it to pass it???


And all they can do is use it to repeal the tax portions...all that means is that they will break healthcare even more and absolutely destroy people's lives.

But I guess when a political victory is all you care about....it doesn't matter if you kill people in the process.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

And?

It does have plenty of taxes in it...it doesn't matter who the taxes apply to...the bill already had tax code in it.

You are still grasping.

roflmao Actually, I am not grasping at all!



I am just using the same tactics against you, that you use against others!

You said what you said, I questioned your logic and ability to debate and you turn it around to tell me I am grasping?????

Do you have a mirror my friend???? You might want to go and take a long look in it!!!

reply to post by seeker1963

You said what you said, I questioned your logic and ability to debate

I said there are already plenty of taxes in the bill.

Do you agree or disagree?


By me saying there are taxes in the bill...does that in anyway imply what group of people they are on?




You were saying something about logic???

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by seabag

 

The health care bill wasn't passed using reconciliation.

Really?

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (Pub.L. 111-152, 124 Stat. 1029) is a law that was enacted by the 111th United States Congress, by means of the reconciliation process, in order to amend the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Pub.L. 111-148). It was signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 30, 2010.

wiki

White House officials tell ABC News that in his remarks tomorrow President Obama will indicate a willingness to work with Republicans on some issue to get a health care reform bill passed but will suggest that if it is necessary, Democrats will use the controversial "reconciliation" rules requiring only 51 Senate votes to pass the "fix" to the Senate bill, as opposed to the 60 votes to stop a filibuster and proceed to a vote on a bill.

ABC

You need to go back and read the bill again. It does not cover pre-existing conditions. May you want all your medical records and health care turned over to the IRS. I certinly don't they are nothing but tax collectors who have no interest in caring for anyone but themselves. This rule just made them angels?

No, I think you do. It clearly prevents insurance companies from dropping or denying insurance to those people who have pre-existing conditions. I really don't think if you were fighting for your life because of a disease that could possibly claim your life, a spouse, son or daughter, you wouldn't care a rats @$$ if all your medical records were turned over to the IRS.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I said there are already plenty of taxes in the bill.

Do you agree or disagree?


By me saying there are taxes in the bill...does that in anyway imply what group of people they are on?




You were saying something about logic???


Keep looking in the mirror and forget who signs your paycheck............You my friend are delusional, to think that the left is right and right is wrong.... Defend your team to the death as far as I am concerned, but in the end, you will find the same death as those you are opposed too! I can sympathize that your income is based upon you defending your party, but I cannot sypathize with you, for the fact that you are being played just as much as your adversary! I wish you nothing but peace, and I hope that somehow you can realize that we have all been played.
Have fun argueing!!!!

reply to post by WeRpeons

Pushing grandma off the cliff was a politically motivated fear tactic by conservatives to get people to question the health care law. Lets put the blame where it belongs.

By conservatives?? It was fearmongering by the left….exactly like what you did when you said:

Are you or anyone else going to walk with your head held high knowing that sick young children and adults would lose this benefit?

Fearmongering from the left isn’t going to work, friend. It’s been used too often by this POTUS and its effectiveness is waning.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by seabag

 

The health care bill wasn't passed using reconciliation.

Really?

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (Pub.L. 111-152, 124 Stat. 1029) is a law that was enacted by the 111th United States Congress, by means of the reconciliation process, in order to amend the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Pub.L. 111-148). It was signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 30, 2010.

wiki

White House officials tell ABC News that in his remarks tomorrow President Obama will indicate a willingness to work with Republicans on some issue to get a health care reform bill passed but will suggest that if it is necessary, Democrats will use the controversial "reconciliation" rules requiring only 51 Senate votes to pass the "fix" to the Senate bill, as opposed to the 60 votes to stop a filibuster and proceed to a vote on a bill.

ABC

edit on 29-6-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

Yes...really.

Did you not read your own sources?

Obama talked about using reconciliation to pass the bill...but didn't.

The bill in 2010 was an amendment to the bill...not the bill itself.

A lot of wilful ignorance going on here.

reply to post by seeker1963


So you are just going to completely dodge my questions to you....nice.

I'm sorry your "logic" wasn't so logical and that you didn't correctly comprehend what you were trying to read.


I said there are taxes in the bill...that is a fact....that doesn't imply anything about who the taxes are on like you incorrectly interpreted it to.

Keep grasping...I understand you are in a state of rage and anger...but try to keep it logical.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


Yes...really.

Did you not read your own sources?

Obama talked about using reconciliation to pass the bill...but didn't.

The bill in 2010 was an amendment to the bill...not the bill itself.

A lot of wilful ignorance going on here.

They dug out that option and held it over everyone's head until they got 60 votes....do you think for a minute they wouldn't have done it had they fell short?

…Using reconciliation will remain an option until Democrats can get 60 members to cooperate — and the party wants to pass a health care bill this year. Liberal advocates for reform say getting all 60 Democrats to cooperate should not be difficult, even to pass a bill with the much-debated public option, since they do not even technically need to vote for the bill — they simply need to agree to not stand in the way.

link

Time for the left to taste it's own medicine!

reply to post by seabag

They dug out that option and held it over everyone's head until they got 60 votes....do you think for a minute they wouldn't have done it had they fell short?

But they didn't do it...and you claimed they did.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong.