ObamaCare: 5 Times the Cost of US Military Budget.

Permit physicians to write off charity care from their taxes and have a reform of our tort system to ban malpractice lawsuits during free charity care and you'll have doctors lined up to care for the truely needy.

I used to know a lawyer from London and she was aghast at our civil court system and just how lawsuit happy we Americans are. Change our tort system to the British system and medical costs will drop. Of course, since our government is populated almost entirely with lawyers, this will never happen.

reply to post by boymonkey74


To be fair here,it's a bit misleading to quote one year of military budget,(700 Billion) and compare it to a ten year Obamacare package. 10 x 700 billion is = 7 Trillion.

What hasn't been mentioned here is the critical fact that no matter what system is used the healthy pay for the ill. Be it through private medical insurance, medicare/medicad programs or socialized medicine, we have been paying for it. There is no way to escape it. Period.

For example, I developed lynphoma about 15 months ago. I was working for a small trucking company that runs from the lower 48 states to Alaska. There was no medical coverage and due to divorce and the general collapse of the trucking industry I was without means to pay for it.

There is a federal law that requires hospitals to set aside, I believe, 10% of their revenue for individuals that can't pay for the services. I recieved an 80% discount on my bills. That over and above the state assistance programs!!

I am grateful for that. You paid for it. Higher hospital rates to offset that expense, higher state and federal taxes to help offset. Higher insurance premiums. Right across the board.

My point is this money is already being spent for medical services.

Now an increase this massive? For the 10% that are "uninsured"? Not necessarily uncovered, uninsured.
All going to private insurance companies? No public option at all?

Without question reduced services,(unless your stinking rich) for the remainder?

This plan is a mess that redefines the concept. If you want these morons who have us 15 trillion in debt running your medical care, so be it.

To the Ron Paul supporters, the battle line has been drawn, time to stop sulking and get active. Don't be the ones that end up giving Obama his win.......

reply to post by boymonkey74

Yes but some people need to be taken care of, the eldery for example.

Yes, but the elderly are already on Medicare and Obama just took 30% of their budget to contribute to Obamacare. Now, the question is, will the 1% increase in Medicare taxes starting January 2013 make up the difference while health care costs keep going up and wages remain stagnant or going down (or done away with altogether)?

reply to post by boymonkey74


how in the world if i am paying now, and it will cost me 3 percent more, HOW IN THE WORLD is this cheaper?

And for those who missed the entire point : We are being forced to buy insurance, NOT HEALTH CARE. The mandate is to carry insurance not to go get treatment. huge difference.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


One of the problems is the age range of 40-70 who even if we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that our country was taken over by somebody who didn't have our best interest they wouldn't believe it.

That age group is so ingrained into their own beliefs and have time to pass those on to children that there is nothing people can do.

These idiots , when they find out they have been duped, will just go blaming somebody else because they are idiots.

A long time ago somebody knew to get to us by making us dumber. we used to be intelligent.

Now we just think we are.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

One of the problems is the age range of 40-70 who even if we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that our country was taken over by somebody who didn't have our best interest they wouldn't believe it.

That age group is so ingrained into their own beliefs and have time to pass those on to children that there is nothing people can do.

These idiots , when they find out they have been duped, will just go blaming somebody else because they are idiots.

A long time ago somebody knew to get to us by making us dumber. we used to be intelligent.

Now we just think we are.

By your own logic people are dumber now (your words) than they used to be, but the problems come from those in the age range of 40-70. I'm 51 (will be 52 in Aug,) and my oldest son who is 27 is the one who does not believe me when I try to explain to him how our govt. is controlling us, etc. Most of the people I know that are my age, or around my age, do know what's happening in the US, and some of us even feel partially responsible for allowing things to get out of control.
I think most generations who feel the gap that exists between us and our govt. throughout history (here in the US) have similar thoughts.

Do you want to be a generation of change, or just another one who complains about past generations mistakes?

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

For example, I developed lynphoma about 15 months ago. I was working for a small trucking company that runs from the lower 48 states to Alaska. There was no medical coverage and due to divorce and the general collapse of the trucking industry I was without means to pay for it.

There is a federal law that requires hospitals to set aside, I believe, 10% of their revenue for individuals that can't pay for the services. I recieved an 80% discount on my bills. That over and above the state assistance programs!!

I am grateful for that. You paid for it. Higher hospital rates to offset that expense, higher state and federal taxes to help offset. Higher insurance premiums. Right across the board.

Just wanted to point out, that "discount" they gave you was not really a discount.

Insurance carriers NEVER pay the full face amount of a bill, and in fact pay negotiated fess that in many cases are 80-90% LESS than the face value you see on the bill you get.

This can be seen if you have insurance and you look at your EOB's. You will see what the provider charged and what the insurance carrier allowed. For example I need a thyroid test, it would cost me around $150.00 cash. With insurance the cost to the insurance carrier is $12.50 and the clinic considers the bill paid in full.

What hospital did was simply charge you what they actually expected to receive from the procedures if you had insurance.

You are literally comparing apples to oranges.

Over ten years the military budget will be ~$7 trillion (your number) and over the same time period Obamascare will cost $2.6 trillion (your number again). So using your numbers it is the military budget that costs 2.7 times more than Obamascare when compared over the same time period.

You get nowhere by pushing stupid arguments. Form the argument intelligently and tell the truth. If the truth is that something is bad, then you have a point. If you have to twist and contort the truth to make your point, then you should go into politics.

Aside from all that, the military and Obamascare should both be abolished.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Sorry fella it just screams "screw you Jack Iam doing fine "to me.
Can you put a $$$ on the health of a nation? it shouldn't matter if you have to pay a little more, if it helps people get better and back into work your country will do better.

Thats the thing, the middle class shouldn't have to do this. its not about wanting or not wanting to help people out, its about whats sustainable in the long run. yeah we can pay extra now.. but what happens to the whole system if things get even more expensive to where nobody can spare anymore money? how does the help the same people we were helping in the first place?

Obamacare and your HC is NOT the answer... yes it works for you guys, but whats worked for you hasn't always worked for us.

You have to look at Health Insurance the same way you do any other product. In America right now, HC companies cannot sell their product across state lines, thus their only competition is the other 2-3 guys down the street. If they had to compete with not only themselves.. but everyone else, much the same way car companies do with all their SUV's trucks, sedans ( saloons ), then you will more than likely see lower prices.

And thats just one example of what can be done to bring about affordable insurance. most jobs above fast food provide health care benefits, only thing thats been stopping those people from getting HC is their own education, which is not the middle classes fault.. we left it up to the government to take care of that, what more can we do?

The short of it is this: in order for everyone to get HC, we need to bring costs down by making them compete with eachother etc, we need to stop taxing the hell out of job providers..doesn't matter if your jealous of their money or not they provide jobs, and raises if you've done good work, not because you think your entitled to it And we need create the incentive for people to get a higher education to those jobs that provide HC.

reply to post by Numbers33four


First of all, I'm completely against "Obamacare". The "truth" is a 10 year program cost is being compared to a one year military budget.( I'm pro-military).

It's a lousy comparision and does an injustice to a valid point. That is the truth. Oh, yes, not my numbers, the "numbers" provided by the thread.

One has nothing to do with the other.

There is a heck of a lot of other areas that needs cutting, mention or comparison rather than the military exclusively.

So if your inclined to suggest I'm "not telling the truth" (whimpese for a liar). Here's another euphemism, "go forth and multiply"......

reply to post by Dreamwatcher


You raise a good point. I recieved full price billing pending the "Bridge" discount application was being processed so I never saw a comparitive pricing.
As the "Bridge program" is federally mandated, there is probably a limit that those sort of game can be played. Still, it probably explains how the co-pay insurance programs got started.
My original point still stands, I think. We do and have been paying for the "ill" all along in one form or another.
30 million "uninsured" is still less than 10% of the population,(318 million), it seems outragous to pay that much to private insurance companies and end up will poorer health care for the remainder just so the socialists can "control" the direction our medical services go.