How to build Puma Punka and the Pyramids in 21.7 years using only the tech of Ancient Man?

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Originally posted by Pressthebutton
Explain to me how ancient man could have drilled holes in the rocks at Puma Punku, which i might add are so hard that they can only be drilled into with diamonds. Not only that but the holes are perfect. The distance between everything is precise, and some of the rocks weigh 350 tons. This makes NO sense to me.

I think that is the real mystery of Pumapunku. The precision cuts in the stone would be difficult to replicate today. Some of the notches in the stones are dovetail cuts of extremely high precision, not to mention the grooves, channels, drilled holes, etc....

The Hydrofluoric acid theory to cut the stones is improbable at best. HF is capable of dissolving Basalt but it's extremely toxic and would be difficult to control and impossible to use to make the precision cuts at Pumapunku.

I'm not saying I beileve the ancient alien theory but archeologists attribute the Puma Punku ruins to the Tiawanako culture but no one has yet to find any evidence that they had a written language. It's highly unlikely that a culture with no written language would be capable of an engineering marvel like Pumapunku.

It's a fascinating subject though... one of the truly unexplained mysteries of the ancient world..

You know just because we can't understand how something was built, it doesn't have to mean it was built by aliens.

And the OP never gave his ideas on how it was built, just asked a bunch of questions that's been asked before.

reply to post by bearwithredhat


Your post confuses me could you re word it? Are you saying leavers are advanced tech? can you not comprehend scale?

reply to post by bearwithredhat

- Why did the ancients, not only use huge stones to build puma punka, but actually PREFER to use them?
- Why did the ancients, not only build at the tops of mountains, but PREFER to build them there?
- Why are stones occasionally found abandoned halfway up mountainsides? If they had moved them that far, why did they not move them the rest of the way up the slopes?
- Why are all the Ancient Civilizations in America largely found where the trade winds from Europe and North Africa stop?
- Why are all the stone circles like Stonehenge built where all the Trade Winds from North America stop?
- Why are Stone Circles usually found in pairs witha large circle and a smalle one nearby, usually connected by a shallow stone duct in the gorund?
- Why are Stone Circles always found in the close presence of Sea, salt or corrupted marsh water?
- Why are stone circles always found in the close presence of Horses?
- Why are Stone Circles almost always magnetised?
- Why are pyramids in Egypt, South America etc found near pigs?
- Why are there traces of salts indicating the production of hydrogen in the Queens Chamber of the Great Pyramid?
- If the Great Pyramid's age is older, it would mean that every pyramid in the world has been constructed near the presence of vast quantities of lumber?
- Why do all the pyramid complexes always associated with a vast, super wide roadway? Consider, for example in central America. why didn;t the ancients use this extra flagstones to provide roads across the nation to make it easier for their people to go to the temples instead of using it all in the middle of the temple complexes?
- And just why are these vasr roadways usually about 1 kilometre long?
- Why are precision engineered stones always found near the presence of igneous basalt?
- Why do ley lines point from one key set of stone cirles to others, to the pyramids to Delphi and also....to low lying passes through the Alps?
- Just how did ancient man construct the pyramids in a meagre 22 years as recorded by the Greeks?

How do you know they preferred to use large stones?

Why do you say they preferred to build on mountain tops? Surely they did it for a significant reason, not just out of preference?

Stone circles are not always found in the close presence of the sea!

I would expect that it's horses that are found in close presence and not the other way around.

I would also expect that pigs were found in close presence of pyramids, and not the opther way round.


You have many of your own questions here you have not answered, there are many posed by members you have skipped past. If you start a thread then please be thorough, otherwise there is no point in making a thread if you are going to ignore the people replying to you, and not expalin the things you bring up.

One more thing, why on earth would you make calculations, then post them on a website, and not have a back-up of the calculations? Did you make them whilst on the site and not think of keeping them for future reference? Seems a bit careless, especially if you put time into those calculations.

reply to post by bearwithredhat


I'm back.
After sleeping on Bears theory last night and waking up this morning and thinking about it a bit more. I'm not going to say it was a zeppelin. But the method he is suggesting ( single shift ) does make sense. I have always thought that what ever method was employed for the construction of these places. Something had to make it much easier than it looks to us. As we look at the results of their efforts today. I wonder, how impossible it must have looked to them, with no example to reference as we have today.

I can't make enough logic out of people in prehistoric times being capable of this befoire there was anything to reference. What does stare me in the eyes is that it must have been done with some ease. It must have been a piece of cake for who ever did it.

Originally posted by coop039
Just when I thought theories couldnt get any stranger along comes a mile long zepplin.

So... a fleet of flying saucers is more reasonable than suggesting that ancient man did it? Ropes, pulleys, levers, none of these could have done it. After thinking hard about this for the last 40 years of my 51 year existence, a Zeppelin is genuinely the only potentially low tech device that I can come up with to have moved these stones.

Remember, an earth or sand bank to move the stones up the Pyramid has been clearly shown to have been impossible for one that height would have certainly collapsed and would have left telltale marks that are just not there.

You mentioned that the stones on the sides of hills may be there cause they had to push them off to gain altitude. Just how does one push a stone that large and heavy off of a mile long zepplin? You said they didnt use ropes, so it wasnt as simple as cutting a line.

Actually, yes, it would have been. The stones COULD have been in a hard wood casing like a sort of scaffording, snatched from the ground by having a part of the superstructure of the Zeppelin slide under the top for instnace. Not saying that this is how but it is one means.

To release, you slash the ropes holding the locks on the supports, sledgehammer the supports aside and it drops like a cinder block through a wet paper bag.

reply to post by bearwithredhat


So would you argue the Denderan Egyptian pictographs, below, actually depict prehistoric zepplins?



It would be interesting to see someone try to implement your idea in practice.

reply to post by bearwithredhat



There's only one way to find out! Let's build a new one! I think maybe you're onto something....but Zeppelin's are pretty far out though, even for modern times, I mean they are huge flying balloons, surely they'd have drawn pictures of them, or described them in something. This isn't something you could "keep secret" like the possibility certain upper level Egyptians had access to electricity/lightbulbs etc. This is pretty much out in the open, kids would have toy versions etc.......There'd be stories of disasters, unexplained fires lol, I don't know.....the way you propose this, it's like, zeppelins were as widespread in use (albeit not as many) as cars are today....not sure I buy that.

You get about +1 over the "ancient alien" theory, 5/5+ for creativity and -2 for practicality.

I know this is not very clear, but this garden hose attachment show the idea of how a Zeppelin COULD have lifted the stones. If one imagines a giant version of the garden hose attachment built in solid wood using hard wood pins and the base of the Zeppelin having the "faucet" attachment as art of it's superstructure. It's tough to imagine, but its the only way that I can demonstrate it without drawing a picture which I cannot scan with no scanner!

www.ideamake.com...

reply to post by bearwithredhat

So... a fleet of flying saucers is more reasonable than suggesting that ancient man did it? Ropes, pulleys, levers, none of these could have done it. After thinking hard about this for the last 40 years of my 51 year existence, a Zeppelin is genuinely the only potentially low tech device that I can come up with to have moved these stones.

Did I say your theory was a lot more believable than some I've heard. Your theory has to be given respect because we know zeppelins exist in the world we know of. Why not in a preevious world we don't know of.
Makes way more sense than aliens coming here revealing them selves at one point. Spanning impossible distance of space and then crashing into our planet after thousounds of years of coming here from times of antiquity. That's just retarded.

Originally posted by Pressthebutton
Explain to me how ancient man could have drilled holes in the rocks at Puma Punku, which i might add are so hard that they can only be drilled into with diamonds. Not only that but the holes are perfect. The distance between everything is precise, and some of the rocks weigh 350 tons. This makes NO sense to me.

I sche3duled how that was done on PAGE ONE OF THIS THREAD.

Originally posted by mrsparkles669
reply to post by bearwithredhat

 

There's only one way to find out! Let's build a new one! I think maybe you're onto something....but Zeppelin's are pretty far out though, even for modern times,
You get about +1 over the "ancient alien" theory, 5/5+ for creativity and -2 for practicality.

Really???? Here's giant Zeppelins in the North West Territories where a British company is using them to service the oil industry.

(The tiny red dot below is a SEA CONTAINER!!!!)

www.mobilemag.com...

No biomechanical model allows 400+ft lifeforms to exist in 1G gravity. Ain't happen'.

Neither is giant airships.

If anything, Puma Punku SUPPORTS the idea of ETs. That's about all we have to work with.

I have an anthro background, as well as H&SS. I am simply at a loss to explain all the coincidental events, lying outside our frame of reference.

No one in academia seems to ask "how", or even "why" all this exists, all they really do is catalogue and place artifacts in some sort of chronological order. Mainstream engineers and science simply do not get involved, in the same sense as a WTC analysis was conducted. Maybe more modern science can be applied to the questions.

I read the thread front to back, and first of all, S & F to the OP for thinking outside the box and working towards a theory that others haven't considered.

To all you haters, is it so impossible to objectively consider a theory in whole or part without scorning? I think the OP does have some great ideas. Do I agree with him? No. But are his ideas feasible? Possibly.

The OP posits that ancient man could have done this absent 3rd party help. Many of the responses show glaring holes in this theory, from the tech of the balloons to lack of historical records. Let's say this WAS an alien-assisted project. Would the idea of a thousand foot balloon seems so insane if aliens helped out, maybe gave you ultra lightweight bladder materials or something? What if those same aliens demanded that no record of the process were to be kept?

I personally diverge the greatest on the stones at Puma Punku. I cannot imagine a process of acid runoff which creates such exacting tolerances and forms as the grooves and holes, let alone the "K-nex" style interlocking blocks being created from an acid bath process. But all the same, the OP has certainly lent more time and passion to the topic than I ever have, so props to you Mr. OP.

Sidenote: Wouldn't you all feel like jackazzes should the "Ark" ruins on Mt. Ararat turn out to be an ancient airship?

The stones at Balbeck are only a shade under 1200 tons, not 10,000 tons, that's a small ship, and no device or apparatus can lift 10,00 tons, however, I digress, the most plausible solution to ancient man constructing these highly complex, accurate and large stones is that they were cast. Making a mould for these stones, including thin grooves, and evenly spaced holes, would be very possible, and the mould would be used over and over again. Cast the stones close to where you need them, or, in-situ, and all you have to haul up the mountain are a large number of small manageable sized buckets of fine aggregate. What remains to be explained, is what ingredients did they use?
I saw on this site only last week, a post about a French scientist who showed how the Egyptians did just that.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft

In reference to your theory, although plausible, I think there must be more involved here. The "preciseness" of the laying of the stones (both physically and geo-mathematically) suggests someone or something else assisted these civilizations in creating these amazing structures. These photos, for instance, are my case-in-point.




The niches, nooks, 90 degree returns etc would have, imo, meant that the Zeppelin(s) would need to have been very very firmly "made fast" and aligned ever so precisely when they reached their intended destination. Look at the 2nd pic - The vertical cuts appear as if done in-situ, suggesting a means of manipulating the stone sometime after it was put in place.

I don't know - I think we are still missing a piece of the puzzle - don't you?

Not at all...

For those who missed my post on PAGE ONE...

Firstly, how to engineer perfectly the stones of puma punka.

It has been FALSELY assumed that machines were used. But there is another way. What no-one ever points out is that Puma Punka is a stones throw away from vast amounts of igneous basalt called fluorite. From fluorite it is easy to produce HYDROFLUORIC ACID, an acid so vicious that you can't even keep it in a bottle as it will eat straight through it in seconds.

If you check out the stones of Puma Punka, they have flat flanges at the edges and are welded together. With HF acid this is easy. Hydrofluoric acid leaves many types of clay alone, so one creates a rim around the stone of clay and then fill it to create a level, shallow pool of Hydrofluoric Acid on the surface. This will eat into the stonwe to dissolve and soften it. Now gently lower the stone above onto the one below. Result? One stone will weld ontot the other just like sticking two bars of wet soap together. Once welded adequately, release the clay wall to allow the acid to run out, maybe down a little spout. Then remove the clay.

And, viola! Two multi-tin blocks of stone welded together chemically!

Originally posted by Pressthebutton
Explain to me how ancient man could have drilled holes in the rocks at Puma Punku, which i might add are so hard that they can only be drilled into with diamonds. Not only that but the holes are perfect. The distance between everything is precise, and some of the rocks weigh 350 tons. This makes NO sense to me.

Firstly, how to engineer perfectly the stones of puma punka.

It has been FALSELY assumed that machines were used. But there is another way. What no-one ever points out is that Puma Punka is a stones throw away from vast amounts of igneous basalt called fluorite. From fluorite it is easy to produce HYDROFLUORIC ACID, an acid so vicious that you can't even keep it in a bottle as it will eat straight through it in seconds.

If you check out the stones of Puma Punka, they have flat flanges at the edges and are welded together. With HF acid this is easy. Hydrofluoric acid leaves many types of clay alone, so one creates a rim around the stone of clay and then fill it to create a level, shallow pool of Hydrofluoric Acid on the surface. This will eat into the stonwe to dissolve and soften it. Now gently lower the stone above onto the one below. Result? One stone will weld ontot the other just like sticking two bars of wet soap together. Once welded adequately, release the clay wall to allow the acid to run out, maybe down a little spout. Then remove the clay.

And, viola! Two multi-tin blocks of stone welded together chemically!

Someone posted this theory in another forum last month.

www.godlikeproductions.com...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Ah, Lloyd Pye, that explains it all.

Lloyd Pye is a 100% scam artist. I spent a long time in the UK working for Consumer Protection putting people like Lloyd Pye behind bars. This man is a GRADE A CHARLATAN. (You get to notice all the behavioural traits after a while)

LLOYD PYE...

- At an overpriced lacture, Pye threw down the challenge saying that no-one could explain how ancient man could have done this. There was no tech that they could have used and challenged for anyone to find a way.

I emailed my theory to Lloyd Pye.

I received a blunt email begining "Listen Boy". Pye acted agressively to try to shut me up and instead of arguing on any points and was merely aggressively abusive, stating how he and his friends had had a "good laugh" at me. Next, he contacted Giorgio it appears, and, without any explanation, I was summarily banned from Lloyd Pye's site and Giorgio's site.

Scammers and false prophets always behave in this manner...
- They throw down challenges not expecting anyone to pick them up.
- If someone does pick up the challenge, they receive no reasoning, just aggressive derision.
- If all else fails, the scammer will try to gag any doubting by ANY UNDERHAND MEANS, including, in many cases, use of force. I have been left in no doubt that Lloyd Pye would use force to try to gag me.