Clean and Unclean meats

Was the law of Unclean and Clean meats ever abolished later on in the Bible?

I looked at Act Chapter 10 and really couldn't decide whether or not they were.

You have Acts 9:9-19, which is Peter's dream wherein the Lord tells him that what God cleansed is good to eat.

Then you have Paul's words:
1 Corinthians 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

So, I personally have no issues. It is all up to what you like and have a taste for anymore.

Anyhow the Law was for Israel. Christ did not come to bring people into the Law. And since the temple does not exists it is kind of hard to fulfill any of the laws that deal with it, right. Christ himself told of the coming destruction of the Temple, which was symbolic not only of his own death but also the law.

Can of worms officially open.

Originally posted by mojo2012
Was the law of Unclean and Clean meats ever abolished later on in the Bible?

I looked at Act Chapter 10 and really couldn't decide whether or not they were.

Thats because you're not reading his words...

I'll help you solve your problem...

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

simple enough?

reply to post by mojo2012


Dietary health practices are more recommendations for how to keep your temple in the best shape. Considering that we are asked to keep our body well not only because it is the temple of the Holy Spirit but to be in good shape to do service and God's plans for our lives then you can see how what you eat is linked to if you are following Jesus' ways. I am from the Adventist church and it is taught to not eat the unclean meats. The Adventist church also has a particular health/diet message that would be in-line with the diet we hear of practiced in Daniel chapter 1 which is a diet SDAs promote (since late 1800's) but is not compulsory or anything like that. This particular diet of Daniel and the SDA has been confirmed to the the healthiest in existence according to the largest study every conducted on diet called the China Study finished in 2005. If you look up information on topics like 'blues zones' you will find that SDAs are considered the longest living 'culture' in the whole world, living 10 years longer than the average.

Daniel 1:11-16
Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over him: "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their meat and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

It's pretty clear Daniel was a vegetarian. So why not Jesus? The prophesy in Isaiah 7:15 said he would eat butter and honey (rather than meat) to be able to know the difference between good and evil. If Jesus ate meat, then he does not fit the Messianic prophesy of the Jews. Nowhere in the bible does it ever mention Jesus eating meat. In the King James translation, there are a few verses that mention Jesus eating meat, but in those cases, meat is translated from the Greek word "Broma" which literally means "food". All other translations of those same exact verses do not use the word "meat", rather they say Jesus sat down and ate "food".
source

Romans 14:21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.

Link to an Adventist Health site which has put together lots of very detailed videos on diet and health. I have watched the whole series called 'Life at its best' which I recommend. From watching that through a couple of times I decided to cut down my red meat consumption by about 90% and shift much more to a vegan-like diet

As Bill Gothard said, you can eat unclean meats and still get into heaven, in fact, you might even get there sooner.

A mindful reading of the food laws makes one thing very clear - God consistently forbad eating carnivores, scavengers, and bottom-feeders. I don't care to nit-pick about Hoopoes, and all the rest, but that is the gist of it. No one would have understood in the era of 1500 BC, but today, with what is known about parasites, disease organisms, and the concentration of toxins as you ascend the food chain, the wisdom of the food laws of the Torah is very clear. Eat right, and be healthy, or don't eat right and go to heaven anyway.

Here's this amazing wisdom, just one little example, and people still insist that God can't exist. Phooey!

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by mojo2012

 

Dietary health practices are more recommendations for how to keep your temple in the best shape. Considering that we are asked to keep our body well not only because it is the temple of the Holy Spirit but to be in good shape to do service and God's plans for our lives then you can see how what you eat is linked to if you are following Jesus' ways. I am from the Adventist church and it is taught to not eat the unclean meats. The Adventist church also has a particular health/diet message that would be in-line with the diet we hear of practiced in Daniel chapter 1 which is a diet SDAs promote (since late 1800's) but is not compulsory or anything like that. This particular diet of Daniel and the SDA has been confirmed to the the healthiest in existence according to the largest study every conducted on diet called the China Study finished in 2005. If you look up information on topics like 'blues zones' you will find that SDAs are considered the longest living 'culture' in the whole world, living 10 years longer than the average.

Longest living culture? JG, have you never heard of the Hunza? BTW, I'm an ex-Adventist.

BTW, your quoted section of the Book of Daniel is the oldest-known example of the scientific method - another score for the Bible.

Originally posted by mojo2012
Was the law of Unclean and Clean meats ever abolished later on in the Bible?

I looked at Act Chapter 10 and really couldn't decide whether or not they were.

Better Question:

Were Gentiles ever a party to the Mosaic Law to begin with? (Exodus 20)

reply to post by Numbers33four

You have Acts 9:9-19, which is Peter's dream wherein the Lord tells him that what God cleansed is good to eat.

This is one interpretation, but the vision was actuall referring to the arrival of Cornelius the Centurion who was a gentile believer in Christ. The vision was telling Peter not to call any man unclean or common that YHWH cleansed of sins and this is when messianic judaism began to merge with the gentiles and become christianity.

At a later point Paul addresses the issue of food after it becomes such a problem and causing a rift between brothers and churches. People advocating that we are still under the law are not reading into what Christ is saying. For example:

Matthew 5:17-20

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Then he goes on to list HIS laws that we have to obey, remember he is the Son and the words he spoke were spirit. He fulfilled those laws on the cross paid in full. The list of ordinances that was held against us was our sins, the original sin piled ontop of all the sins of man, past, present and future. This was how he saved mankind, he had to pay the debt we could not and we were given to him, he purchased us with his blood, the only one he lost that the Father gave to him was Judas Iscariot, he sacrificed Judas to fulfill the promise and Judas became the Son of Perdition who could be the same who makes an appearance in the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 11:25-30

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

What yoke is Christ talking about? Lets see what happened at the council of Jeruslaem.

Acts 15:8-11

8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

The Old laws were given by pre-incarnate Christ at Mt. Sinai to Moses to show the Israelites that without the Redeemer we would all die in our sins. Those laws damned mankind, not even the jews could follow them perfectly and they spent their entire lives trying vainly. Israel couldn't obey his voice and keep his commands and if they couldn't do it the gentles couldn't either without the Redeemer. This is how badly we all needed a Savior.

Sometimes a food taboo is just silly.

The banana belongs to the plants of the ancients and has been given God-like powers in many diverse cultures. These "old-world" plants are thought to have originated in India and played an important role in ancient Egypt and Assyria as early as 1100 BC.

For the early Hawaiians, the banana tree was the embodiment of the God Kanaloa who came from Tahiti and was himself a banana planter and it is said that the folk of Mu, the aboriginal, mythological race that inhabited the islands long before the Polynesians arrived, already were avid banana munchers.

The Hawaiians created at least 50 different varieties out of these original plants. But they never used them as a staple food source. Bananas were too sacred. They were a delicacy, and a welcome alternative in times of scarcity. The banana was often used as symbol for man in the many religious ceremonies. Often a stalk substituted for a human sacrifice, and the favorite ceremonial banana was the lele, with its double meaning, because lele also means "to fly away." Thus, in any ritual were a suggestion of flying transpired, the lele featured. Love, for example, could fly to a desired heart.

Under punishment with death, women couldn't touch the sacred fruit till the abolition of the taboo in 1819.

Originally posted by windword
Sometimes a food taboo is just silly.

You quote interesting material, but the food laws of the Torah make too much sense to be called silly. A silly taboo is done away with, but the consequences of eating pork (not to mention the rest) are still with us.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


What are the consequences of eating pork? How does pork, when handled correctly, compare worse that steer meat? And what's wrong with goat? It may be a bit gamy, but unclean?

What about shell fish. Seafaring nations of time ate shell fish without consequences, as long it's it was prepared properly. Mussel stew, YUM!

I heard a story that early Americans refused to eat lobster, because it was unclean, and gave it to their slaves to eat instead. But, when the slaves cooked the lobsters into tasty rich meals, they tried it and changed their minds. Now it's a delicacy.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

What are the consequences of eating pork? How does pork, when handled correctly, compare worse that steer meat? And what's wrong with goat? It may be a bit gamy, but unclean?

What about shell fish. Seafaring nations of time ate shell fish without consequences, as long it's it was prepared properly. Mussel stew, YUM!

I heard a story that early Americans refused to eat lobster, because it was unclean, and gave it to their slaves to eat instead. But, when the slaves cooked the lobsters into tasty rich meals, they tried it and changed their minds. Now it's a delicacy.

OK, fair questions. Steer/beef is clean, and so is goat. I eat neither, as beef does not agree with me, and goat just does not appeal. The laws are a general guide, but you need to listen to your own body too. I try to adhere to the "Eat Right 4 Your Blood Type" diet. As for pork, the main thing is trichina. If pork is undercooked, it can be bad, as those things embed themselves in muscle. In some cases, the eating of undercooked pork has killed people. Even if it is cooked throughly, and in case you weren't told, the trichina parasites are NOT easily killed, pork is just too "hot" a fuel for the body. Swine are scavengers and omnivores, and tend to concentrate toxins in their bodies. Make excuses if you want, but there are far better meats to eat.

Shellfish are filter feeders, and concentrate toxins also. In some known situations, they will make people sick who eat them. Did you not know this? Yes, YUM most of the time, but now and then, not. I don't know a lot about lobsters, but when I see them in a tank at Red Lobster (I do eat some fish, not all), I always wish they were back in the ocean.

By keeping the food laws, which are cautionary guides applying only to the animal kingdom, you would be eating way down on the bottom of the food chain, where toxins are not very concentrated, and research has only just caught up with the wisdom contained all along in the Bible. For the plant kingdom, God knew we had sense enough to forgo the poison mushrooms and such, but meat is meat, right? Wrong.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Okay, I agree with a lot of what you say. However, under cooked chicken can kill you too. There is the danger of liver flukes/worms in venisen and also in many fish.

Volcanic activity produces high quantities of mercury in nearby waters and large fish such a tuna and marlin have higher concentrations of mercury because they're high on the food chain. They eat fish that eat smaller fish, and all the mercury in the smaller fish accumulates in the larger fish.

There really is no end to food caution.

The reason i ask is because of Galatians 5:19-21

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envying, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such the like: of which i tell you before, as I have told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Here Paul says uncleanness so what does he mean? I took this as partaking in actions that have been said were unclean.

Galatians 5:22-26

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Romans 8:6

For to be carnally minded is death: but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So once you are spiritually minded then you do not partake in the carnally minded actions.

The underlying reason why I chose clean and unclean meats because there is something I believe. And it starts here in 1 John 4:8

He that loveth not knoweth not God: for God is love.

So using that information I concluded for myself that God gave the Jews the law of the Clean and Unclean meats because he loved them. Once gentiles were able to be grafted in by Jesus then this law that i believe was made out of Love, should be applied to gentiles because both jews and gentiles are made of flesh.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Longest living culture

relating to non-geographically contained and of high population sample size

reply to post by Lazarus Short


I step out on faith. I like bacon. The only kind of pork i care to eat is bacon, most the time i'll ignore the rest unless i'm hankering for a hickory smoked ham. You only live once. Honestly, all the crap we eat now isn't clean, it's got all the manmade chemicles and junk in it designed to kill us. Unless you're Amish everything you eat is unclean anyway, as most prepackaged stuff is cooked together in vats and factories. Yeshua said "it's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth that makes you unclean, for what comes out of your mouth comes from the heart".

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Longest living culture

relating to non-geographically contained and of high population sample size

Is that just a way to sidestep the indisputable FACT that the Hunza lifestyle is superior to the Adventist lifestyle?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

I step out on faith. I like bacon. The only kind of pork i care to eat is bacon, most the time i'll ignore the rest unless i'm hankering for a hickory smoked ham. You only live once. Honestly, all the crap we eat now isn't clean, it's got all the manmade chemicles and junk in it designed to kill us. Unless you're Amish everything you eat is unclean anyway, as most prepackaged stuff is cooked together in vats and factories. Yeshua said "it's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth that makes you unclean, for what comes out of your mouth comes from the heart".

It is just so hard to disagree with you! You are correct, and we will be eating the fruit of the Tree of Life soon enough.