The Myths of the American Redneck.

reply to post by milominderbinder

Perhaps here we have our differences in perception.

We definitely have a difference in perception.

Everything is also a generalization. I have known slickers who were capable, and country folk who couldn't tie their shoes without a demonstration video and tutor. But the majority is the majority, and my experiences are that country folk are for the most part capable of handling about anything that comes their way. The term 'redneck', at least around here, describes those most capable... it appears the ones you are referring to would be referred to as "trailer trash" here.

There is also the fact that most people from the country consider venison to be one of the best meats around, while most slickers turn green at the thought of eating it.

You can kill a deer from TWO FOOTBALL FIELDS AWAY with a 30-30.

Perhaps if the deer is standing in the open, which they rarely do. In the mountains, you're not going to be able to see two football fields away, much less get a bullet through all that brush and still have any energy left. Most deer are killed in under 50 yards, but a decent hunter can gt within 50 yards to make that shot.

Of course. They DID receive help from the camera crew...but they were honest about it.

But it's STILL a very tiny interior decorator killing an elk with a hand-thrown, stone-tipped spear.

With help... with training.

All that didn't happen within the hour you watched it. There were tons of misses, tons of not getting the projectile airborne, tons of falling down. There was also quite a bit of training. Camera crews filmed hours upon hours of footage, the vast majority of which got left on the cutting room floor. In the end, she probably did kill an elk... but she was given three squares a day and continuous coaching while doing it.

Reality TV is far far removed from reality. It's entertainment.

Humans hunted Mammoths to extinction with them.

That's one theory. Not a fact.

You do know that the idea of mathematicians being socially inept freaks wearing pocket protectors is pretty much fictional, right?

I would call it a stereotype, an exaggeration, but not fiction. In many ways it's accurate.

Computer technicians are nerds, too. I honestly believe there is something in the genetics that makes computer techs also 'strange' in some way. Engineers do walk into walls. They think so hard that they sometimes forget to watch where they're going. Every occupation, especially the more specialized ones, attracts people of a certain mindset and of certain personal tastes. And every occupation also has its stereotypes based on these things.

Oh, and before you accuse me of badmouthing anyone... I am describing me. I hold an AAS in Computer Science and am working on a BS in Electrical Engineering after working in Structural/Architectural Design for over twenty years. And yes, that is my photo at left; tell me that's not strange!

The reason I can still do those things you speak of is that I grew up in the country. Knowing math or programming languages does nothing to help me hunt or fish.

But when there the ruins/shambles of society have left hundreds of millions of lighters and even more matches laying around...

...I will use them. If they run out, I'll use what I have.

When the slickers run out, they'll steal or starve.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by LDragonFire

I can skin a buck, or any other animal, I can run a trot line, I can kill clean and cook whatever is out there, but I'm smart enough to know I can't survive alone. You need community, friends, and family to make it, with the ops attitude I seriously doubt he will make it.

Ummm...where did I ever say I could "do it all alone"?

There is also the fact that most people from the country consider venison to be one of the best meats around, while most slickers turn green at the thought of eating it.

Really? Weird. Venison is practically legal-tender up here...even in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Minneapolis. When I lived in Denver most of the "trendier" restaurants had elk, bison, and vension on the menu. I used to go to one "fancy-assed" restaurant in Denver that served alligator and rattlesnake as well. It was a "Brazillian" steakhouse...although the traditional Brazillian menu was supplemented with game. Likewise...isn't pheasant under glass a delicacy? I've never heard of people who turn green at the thought of eating game. Strange indeed.

With help... with training.

Yeah...but so minimal as to hardly count. She picked up the spear...threw it around for an afternoon...and then killed an elk.

All that didn't happen within the hour you watched it. There were tons of misses, tons of not getting the projectile airborne, tons of falling down. There was also quite a bit of training. Camera crews filmed hours upon hours of footage, the vast majority of which got left on the cutting room floor. In the end, she probably did kill an elk... but she was given three squares a day and continuous coaching while doing it..

Not at all. It was honestly presented. Plus...I've used an atlatl myself while taking an experimental archeology class at one of those city-slicker universities. We all chipped our own spearpoints out of chert with a hamerstone and antler billet and then went out to the football field to throw them. Nineteen and twenty year-old girls (none of whom threw javelin for track or were pitchers on the softball team) were hitting the target at 50 yards within an hour. My own personal longest throw was 80 yard...but I was pretty inaccurate after 70. All in a single 1.5 hr class period worth of "practice". It's just not a very hard thing to do.

Oh, and before you accuse me of badmouthing anyone... I am describing me. I hold an AAS in Computer Science and am working on a BS in Electrical Engineering after working in Structural/Architectural Design for over twenty years. And yes, that is my photo at left; tell me that's not strange!

.

Actually...I don't find that at all strange. If anything, I think it probably supports the idea of just how immensely versatile human beings really are. Just as some might find it surprising that a "country" guy is a computer scientist and working on his engineering degree...I think you'd also be pretty surprised at just how many "city" people could sustain themselves off the land without too much trouble, assuming they had the benefit of the massive piles of manufactured goods laying around like we do in the United States now. Again...all bets are off if someone was just dumped in the Andes without anything but the clothes on their back.

The reason I can still do those things you speak of is that I grew up in the country. Knowing math or programming languages does nothing to help me hunt or fish..

Well...of course not. You're talking about SPORT hunting and fishing. However, in a survival situation the #1 rule is to manage your body temperature...but the #2 rule is to procure the most calories possible with the least amount of caloric expenditure. You would be the FIRST guy I would want on my "side". However...if you picked up fishing pole instead using that electrical engineering knowledge you have to jolt the ol' fishing hole and then simply scoop up dinner off the surface I'd seriously question your sanity. LOL.

...and then when we were done eating you could show someone else in our group how to flip the switch on the electro-fishing rig so that you could focus on much more important things...like getting the damn power back on without electrocuting ourselves so we can power a freezer and charge up some battery packs for that nice set of DeWalt tools we found in the ruins.

Wouldn't it be a tremendous waste of your talents to spend time trying to catch fish with a rod and reel? Your technical knowledge is 100-fold more valuable...both in the short term AND the long term. We can let the mathematician scoop up fish. We won't need him to calculate trajectory and force equations until we build that DIY anti-vehicular cannon to guard the road. I heard the freak-shows the next county over don't share our same congenial attitude about the Apocalypse and appear to be on quite the killing and plundering spree.

I just see things like stretching a tarp, shooting a deer, or getting a bucket of fish as being the LEAST of our worries.

edit on 27-6-2012 by milominderbinder because: Formatting

You guys should get a private room..sheesh..

reply to post by milominderbinder

Really? Weird. Venison is practically legal-tender up here...even in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Minneapolis. When I lived in Denver most of the "trendier" restaurants had elk, bison, and vension on the menu. I used to go to one "fancy-assed" restaurant in Denver that served alligator and rattlesnake as well.

We think it's weird as well out in the country.

I personally adore venison, rattlesnake, and alligator tail. Never tried elk, but I had a bison burger one time; not bad, but not venison either... a little tough. You may also find it strange that I am one of the few even in the country around here who like rattlesnake.

Yeah...but so minimal as to hardly count. She picked up the spear...threw it around for an afternoon...and then killed an elk.

While I was not there and thus cannot say you are incorrect, I will say I find the story... unconvincing.

I tend to believe this is the story line they used... no offense intended.

Just as some might find it surprising that a "country" guy is a computer scientist and working on his engineering degree...I think you'd also be pretty surprised at just how many "city" people could sustain themselves off the land without too much trouble

Oh, people having the innate ability is not what I question. I question them having the intestinal fortitude to change their ways at a moment's notice. I question their willingness to maintain standards of morality (as in refraining from killing each other for a twinkie) when they are forced out of their comfort zone.

In short, I question the ability of the majority of the species to survive any substantial degree of sudden change in the societal structure.

You're talking about SPORT hunting and fishing.

Er, no. I don't sport fish or sport hunt. I do it for one reason: food. If I do go fishing for fun, sometimes I don't even bait the hook so the fish will leave me alone.

Anything else is indecent killing of another creature. I learned the three rules of firearms not long after I could walk:

1. Always treat a firearm like it is loaded.
   
2. Never point a weapon at something you do not intend to kill.
   
3. Only kill for food or self-protection.

I believe #3 is the appropriate one for this discussion.

Wouldn't it be a tremendous waste of your talents to spend time trying to catch fish with a rod and reel? Your technical knowledge is 100-fold more valuable...both in the short term AND the long term. We can let the mathematician scoop up fish. We won't need him to calculate trajectory and force equations until we build that DIY anti-vehicular cannon to guard the road. I heard the freak-shows the next county over don't share our same congenial attitude about the Apocalypse and appear to be on quite the killing and plundering spree.

Not really. Such an attempt would likely kill much more than we could eat, and the rest would be wasted; a violation of rule #3 above. Besides, everyone needs a little time away from the tech.

TheRedneck

Oh, people having the innate ability is not what I question. I question them having the intestinal fortitude to change their ways at a moment's notice. I question their willingness to maintain standards of morality (as in refraining from killing each other for a twinkie) when they are forced out of their comfort zone.

Ahhhh. Perhaps you are right on that one. I'm actually 100% positive there will be lots and lots of killing one another for twinkies. Certainly, we can almost guarantee that in the first 72 hours there would be quite a few shootings over looted television sets with nothing to plug them into. Indeed, I would surmise that there would even be quite a few able-bodied outdoorsmen who might get killed simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let's face it...you could be the world's greatest Army Ranger or Navy Seal and you're still pretty much SOL if your appendix just happens to rupture the day TSHF.

However, I tend to look at hunger as being a pretty powerful motivator. When push comes to shove...a hungry person will do whatever they need to do to survive. If they need to learn how to shoot a firearm...I'd wager that they'll learn how to do so in RECORD time and with amazing accuracy...even when those same people might not have been able to hit the broad side of a barn during "normal" times. Our survival instincts to use tools to catch and kill game have been with us for close to 2 million years. I don't think they have completely vanished because we have had electricity and grocery stores for the last 100 years or so. It might seem like they're "gone" sometimes...but these things have a way of kicking in again when the situation demands it.

In short, I question the ability of the majority of the species to survive any substantial degree of sudden change in the societal structure.

Very well. Perhaps we just agree to disagree. What I see is a big die-off when TSHF, followed by a secondary die-off in the chaos immediately following it. After that...I think we would be amazed at how many latte-drinking city-goers became magnificent tribesmen. Dogs are domesticated...but if you throw a couple in with a pack of wolves or coyotes they quickly remember "where they came from". Granted, the chihauhas would be screwed...but I bet it wouldn't take long for a border collie to go from herding to hunting with coyotes if he had to. There's no question that SOME people wouldn't be able to adapt...but I think this would be the exception. Even a lot of the "ankle-biter" kinds of dogs that didn't fit in with the wolves or coyotes would find new niches. Terriers of all manner would have a field day living off of the exploding rat populations. I think you would find only a few breeds of dogs to truly "die-off"...the rest would survive and slowly interbreed until they behaved more like wolves, foxes, and coyotes rather than beagles, retrievers, and shepherds. Why would people be any different?

Er, no. I don't sport fish or sport hunt. I do it for one reason: food. If I do go fishing for fun, sometimes I don't even bait the hook so the fish will leave me alone.

No...I'm not saying "sport" as in only to stick a trophy on the wall or to kill for killings sake alone. I mean that you are still bound by the rules of your local DNR and your hunting/fishing license are still HOBBYIST licenses. You can't just arbitrarily use a fishing trawler on your local inland lake because it's more efficient. However, if society collapses there won't be anyone telling you that you can't hunt after nightfall, setting pit traps, or using nets instead of fishing poles or building a fishing weir. Anything goes. Granted...you don't want to consume every resource in your vicinity in 30 days...but there massively more efficient means of hunting and fishing than what the DNR permits one to do.

Not really. Such an attempt would likely kill much more than we could eat, and the rest would be wasted; a violation of rule #3 above. Besides, everyone needs a little time away from the tech.

Not if it's not correctly. I'm not sure about Alabama...but in Wisconsin the DNR has been zapping hundreds of lakes every year since the 1950's and taking a census of the fisheries. They've never had a problem with killing the fish...they just stun them.

However, in order to do this you have to really, really, know your volts, watts, amps, and ohms as well as be able to ascertain just how conductive the water is as mineral content can change resistance. In short...it's work that is best cut out for a an electrical engineer and a biologist...but I would think that just an electrical engineer might do in a pinch.

At any rate...I suppose we should probably wrap this thread up one of these days.

Thanks for the good conversation!!

reply to post by milominderbinder

I agree we seem to have worn this one out. Thank you for the conversation and take care.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: milominderbinder

4. Small towns and churches have brought you such wonderful things as institutionalized slavery of the most brutal varieties, witch-burnings, lynchings and the Hatfields and McCoys. As an individual who was born and raised in a rural small town I will attest to the fact the NASTIEST, MEANEST, MOST SELFISH, AND MOST SMALL MINDED elements of American society are from all those small towns in the "real America" or whatever. I'll take my chances in Compton over being stuck in a small town with a bunch of hillbillies ANY DAY!!

Triple lynching in Minnesota of all places! Anyone know this? I didn’t until I saw it here. (WARNING: graphic photo.)

www.anorak.co.uk...

Being a U. K. site, I assumed the writer had merely mixed up the state names Minnesota and Mississippi, which are similar-sounding and might be unfamiliar to someone from outside the U. S., but I checked and sure enough:

www.executedtoday.com...

Well-known enough that there is a monument and a Bob Dylan song alluding to it!

the NASTIEST, MEANEST, MOST SELFISH, AND MOST SMALL MINDED elements of American society are from all those small towns in the "real America"

That's definitely true where I work, in a small, poor town in Eastern Washington. Those people suck in many ways, though they have lots of animals so they could last a while in an apocalypse but I can't stand to be around them more than about half an hour.