Jonathan Cole - 9/11 Theories: Expert vs. Expert

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Dave, i will give you credit. Your initial post was the first, maybe only post, out of hundreds on this site that was anything close to considerate. I knew it wouldn't take long though for you to resort to "truthers" and i'm still waiting for "crazy conspiracy sites."

Still, like you accuse truthers/crazy paranoid schizophrenics who are informed by crazy conspiracy sites, YOU SEE and HEAR what you want and selectively pick out things in the video to debunk. Then you throw out garbage that was never mentioned in the video while ignoring the main message in the video.

The majority of the video showed the contradictions/flip flopping and lack of any official explanation of how these towers collapsed. Let's not mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payers money that was wasted by these government experts that produced absolutely nothing.

I like how you're trying to pull off the level headed approach now and want to be taken seriously. Claiming you're all for another investigation when you know it will never happen and much of the evidence has been destroyed, making it practically impossible. All that is left is independents trying to put out alternatives while you do absolutely nothing but call them ALL truthers and worse.

Your stance on all of this is they lied a little bit to cover up incompetence. Well, i would like to know who gave you the right to draw this all knowing arbitrary line? Doesn't this make you a truther by your own definition? If you admit lying occured, these are your words that you have repeated over and over in previous threads, how do you know where the lying began and ended?

How about you tell us how it all went down with your facts and scientific evidence? NIST couldn't do it. 911 Commission couldn't do it. Nobody independent can do it. So let's hear it! If not, leave! You said you're tired anyhow.

reply to post by curious_soul


damn right i second that.

sad a human can be so blind to the obvious... the obvious, hmm i wonder who has said that before... seems to ring a bell, in our favor, by a cretin report.

glimpse of object in video that hit pentagon is not a 747!
www.youtube.com...
They must be hiding something if they had to confiscate all videos around the pentagon the day it was hit! That's not strange to anyone? Why the # are they having wargames on a day when they needed to be watching everything? Where the plane wreckage in shankville from flight 93? Enron files were in building 7 , no wonder hollywood was right about the movie "Fight Club" , the Enron crooks were ridding the evidence against them!
flight 93 no debris and proof of real crashes in video:www.youtube.com...
woman claims small object no bigger than van is what crashed in shanksville:www.youtube.com...
When you schmucks that want to brainwash us with your #, make sure it true before you do it!

I've noticed no one has any evidence to contradict the video, so they attack the director.

Let's talk about the content, not your opinion of the host.

If you think Bin Laden and friends did 911 you need some serious help.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
I hope you enjoy the video and I'm looking forward to some intelligent discussion on the content. All opinions are welcome but let's try and keep it civil. Personally, I can't even consider the possibility of jet fuel to cause those beams to melt and to cause molten steel that lasted for weeks. And no way in hell would the planes that hit the two towers cause building 7 to collapse.

All right, let's have an intelligent discussion...but we both know that in a day or two the truthers are going to destroy this thread into a quagmire of pedantic arguments over the mass of the concrete in the floors and Bush's connections to the Nazis.

FIRST, this guy is being horribly fast and loose with the facts he's presenting. You saw right in the video that thermite doesn't explode- it burns really hot and really fast. If something goes KABOOM, unless it's a nuclear bomb that releases 100,000 degrees it isn't going to have any energy to melt steel- it's going to shatter it, and if it has the energy to melt steel like thermite does then it isn't going to use up all it's energy creating the KABOOM. So, all this guy managed to do it point out how the NIST report doesn't explain what we saw/heard, and then come up with ANOTHER explanation that doesn't explain what we saw/heard. With a building of that size, if there were genuinely demolitions in the building, you wouldn't need to be microanalyzing the dust or magnifying video looking for signs of explosions- there's be flashes all over the building and it's be as blatant as a stick of dynamite going off.

SECOND, This whole "thermite" discussion is entirely based on the report from Steven Jones, who supposedly found traces of thermite in the dust. That report has now been irrefutably been debunked by peer review reports, and it's been determined the thermite he found was actually paint, whcih isn't surprising, since Jones isn't an explosives expert and almost certainly never encountered thermite in his career. Thus, any positions based upon an incorrect report is by definition incorrect as well.

THIRD, and this is a big third, the towers were OCCUPIED buildings, as in they were chock full of tenants, inspectors, engineers, custodians, electricians, security guards, and the like, and they were full time employees who worked there for years, so they knew the building and they knew each other. They WILL have noticed any attempt to rig the building with demolitions and since almost all of the survived they WILL have reported seeing strange things going on. If some stranger suddenly showed up sitting on your couch who announced he was really your son, are you really telling me that wouldn't stand out?

FOURTH, which is what disappoints me about the truther movement on an intellectual level, is that literally every single accusation they come up with needs to religiously rely on armies of sinister secret agents to make it plausible. Everything, from why NIST created this supposedly fake report to how the explosives got into the building to why people are reporting seeing a plane hitting the Pentagon instead of a cruise missile, is always because of "sinister secret agents". How many people need to be in this supposedly "secret" conspiracy for it to work AND to successfully cover it up? 5,000? 10,000? Or, are you suggesting that a handful of sinister secret agents snuck into the WTC and planted these explosives, and then slapped on a fake mustache and slipped into the ground zero site and disposed of all the evidence, and then put on a fake beard and pretended to be FEMA engineers, and then put on dark sunglasses and pretended to be NIST engineers? It's completely mental. All you're doing is saying "the boogeyman" did it.

It's obvious to me that rather than looking at the evidence and then coming up with a scenario that best explains the evidence, you're coming up with the scenario first and then specifically seeking out the evidence that conforms to it. This is patently phony becuase you're consciously ignoring all the evidence that proves why it WASN'T controlled demolitions. For one thing, why does this video intentionally leave out the collapse of the penthouse from the WTC 7 video? That's one of the key pieces of evidence that backs up the NIST report.

Now let the childish "I'm really a sinister secret agent" and "Bush has connections to the Nazis" pillow fight begin.

YOU ,,,, have been horribly fast WITH ALL your posts and threads. No one knows what type of charges(or variations) were used ,so why assume ...

No one can produce a report ,in detail, 11 years after. Including you.

How do you know how many tenants the towers had? I'm sure you have the list. So you are saying interior work was never done (night or daytime) in the towers; and you know this how?.

Children usually assume,, constantly.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
I hope you enjoy the video and I'm looking forward to some intelligent discussion on the content. All opinions are welcome but let's try and keep it civil. Personally, I can't even consider the possibility of jet fuel to cause those beams to melt and to cause molten steel that lasted for weeks. And no way in hell would the planes that hit the two towers cause building 7 to collapse.

All right, let's have an intelligent discussion...but we both know that in a day or two the truthers are going to destroy this thread into a quagmire of pedantic arguments over the mass of the concrete in the floors and Bush's connections to the Nazis.

FIRST, this guy is being horribly fast and loose with the facts he's presenting. You saw right in the video that thermite doesn't explode- it burns really hot and really fast. If something goes KABOOM, unless it's a nuclear bomb that releases 100,000 degrees it isn't going to have any energy to melt steel- it's going to shatter it, and if it has the energy to melt steel like thermite does then it isn't going to use up all it's energy creating the KABOOM. So, all this guy managed to do it point out how the NIST report doesn't explain what we saw/heard, and then come up with ANOTHER explanation that doesn't explain what we saw/heard. With a building of that size, if there were genuinely demolitions in the building, you wouldn't need to be microanalyzing the dust or magnifying video looking for signs of explosions- there's be flashes all over the building and it's be as blatant as a stick of dynamite going off.

SECOND, This whole "thermite" discussion is entirely based on the report from Steven Jones, who supposedly found traces of thermite in the dust. That report has now been irrefutably been debunked by peer review reports, and it's been determined the thermite he found was actually paint, whcih isn't surprising, since Jones isn't an explosives expert and almost certainly never encountered thermite in his career. Thus, any positions based upon an incorrect report is by definition incorrect as well.

THIRD, and this is a big third, the towers were OCCUPIED buildings, as in they were chock full of tenants, inspectors, engineers, custodians, electricians, security guards, and the like, and they were full time employees who worked there for years, so they knew the building and they knew each other. They WILL have noticed any attempt to rig the building with demolitions and since almost all of the survived they WILL have reported seeing strange things going on. If some stranger suddenly showed up sitting on your couch who announced he was really your son, are you really telling me that wouldn't stand out?

FOURTH, which is what disappoints me about the truther movement on an intellectual level, is that literally every single accusation they come up with needs to religiously rely on armies of sinister secret agents to make it plausible. Everything, from why NIST created this supposedly fake report to how the explosives got into the building to why people are reporting seeing a plane hitting the Pentagon instead of a cruise missile, is always because of "sinister secret agents". How many people need to be in this supposedly "secret" conspiracy for it to work AND to successfully cover it up? 5,000? 10,000? Or, are you suggesting that a handful of sinister secret agents snuck into the WTC and planted these explosives, and then slapped on a fake mustache and slipped into the ground zero site and disposed of all the evidence, and then put on a fake beard and pretended to be FEMA engineers, and then put on dark sunglasses and pretended to be NIST engineers? It's completely mental. All you're doing is saying "the boogeyman" did it.

It's obvious to me that rather than looking at the evidence and then coming up with a scenario that best explains the evidence, you're coming up with the scenario first and then specifically seeking out the evidence that conforms to it. This is patently phony becuase you're consciously ignoring all the evidence that proves why it WASN'T controlled demolitions. For one thing, why does this video intentionally leave out the collapse of the penthouse from the WTC 7 video? That's one of the key pieces of evidence that backs up the NIST report.

Now let the childish "I'm really a sinister secret agent" and "Bush has connections to the Nazis" pillow fight begin.

You said=
"but we both know that in a day or two the truthers are going to destroy this thread into a quagmire of pedantic arguments "


I suggest you return to Your most recent Thread[WTC collapse videos...], that you started, AND properly defend it. Starting a thread and abandoning it to post delusions in someone's else's thread, is a clear indication of a shill in over its head .

You're all stick bickering about this 11 years later?

Why can't everyone admit they don't know for sure what happened and end stop arguing.

Who's to say there wasn't enclosed explosives set and timed within the commercial jets that hit the towers? Who's to say that people weren't installing explosives within the towers the night before 9-11? Apparently if they shipped the steel over to China that was supposed to be evidence, then they are guilty at the highest level! There is no reason we had to ship the # to China to recycle it, we could have recycled it here for less, they just didnt want anyone here to see it! Most in the country and the world have been dupt by those that are supposed to be protecting us and running the show, which apparently they can't do!

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno

YOU ,,,, have been horribly fast WITH ALL your posts and threads. No one knows what type of charges(or variations) were used ,so why assume ...

No one can produce a report ,in detail, 11 years after. Including you.

To which I respond, so what? I don't know the exact physcial progression of the breakup of the Titanic but that doesn't mean the bit about the iceberg was fake and it was sunk by a secret British conspiracy. I don't know how the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids but that doesn't mean the ancient Egyptians were all retarded and that space aliens built it. I can't go to the planet Venus to see with my own eyes that's it's a desolate acid-soaked hell but that doesn't mean I'm going to accuse the gov't of lying and it's really filled with unicorns, rainbows, and all the ice cream we can eat. Neither do I know what happened to every nut and bolt of how the towers collapsed but that doesn't mean sinister secret agents snuck into the buidling and planted hidden explosives without anyone noticing.

Not knowing the complete details about something does not, in any way, equal a sinister secret conspiracy to take over the world. All it means is that we don't know the complete details about something. Where is this overpowering need to fill all the vacuums of information with conspiracy theories coming from?

How do you know how many tenants the towers had? I'm sure you have the list. So you are saying interior work was never done (night or daytime) in the towers; and you know this how?.

I see what you're tryign to do here. It's called "deflection", in that you can't answer any questions about your claims so you deflect the responsibility by demanding answers to mine. You must know I'm immune to such games.

Here is the list of tenannts of both towers, as well as showing where the planes hit and who the tenants were in the areas that were hit.

List of tenants in the north tower

List of tenants in the south tower

It isn't my responsibility to prove the Fuji bank in the south tower DIDN'T implement changes that would affect the structural integrity of the building. This is your conspiracy claim so it's up to YOU to prove they did. Can you, or should I just repost your own quote about the childishness of relying upon assumptions without substance?