Is the world freer now than it ever was? Consider this...

Ok I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment. Tell me what you think.

Two intellectuals I talked to, a German guy and Darryl Sloan (a public freethinker with a popular YouTube channel at www.youtube.com...), told me that they don't believe all this NWO/Illuminati conspiracy stuff on the internet, because "there's never been a better time to be a freethinker than now." Here is the gist of what they said:

"We have more freedom than ever today, esp in the Western world. You can watch and listen to anything you want, believe anything you want, be an Atheist even, etc. and not be arrested for it. Look at you Winston, following all that conspiracy stuff, yet no police or government ever bothers you, harasses you or threatens you. And information is flowing freely all over the internet, more than ever before. 500 years ago, if you didn't believe in God, they'd execute you. But nowadays, you can believe anything you want, and no one harasses you for it. There's never been a greater time to be a freethinker than now.

Also, as a Westerner, you can go to any country you want, as long as you have the money. In ancient times, travel was a lot slower and more tedious and risky. And borders were not open either. But now, planes, trains, buses and vehicles have made travel and transportation easy and convenient. There's never been a better time for international travel than now."

I guess this does make sense. No matter how much conspiracy stuff you follow or get into or attend, no authority ever threatens or harasses you. They simply ignore you. I've never had any trouble from government or police. And as a Westerner, there is no government or police stopping you from going wherever you want, to whatever country you want.

So does that mean all the NWO/Illuminati conspiracy theories about a one world government capturing the world are just paranoia, fantasy and exaggeration?

This brings to mind an interesting quote I found before:

“The reason people find it so hard to be happy is that they always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.” - Marcel Pagnol quotes (French Writer, Producer and Film Director, 1895-1974)

This seems so true doesn't it? At any point in history people always seem to reminisce the past as better than it really was (e.g. "the good old days") and make the present out to be worse than it really is, while seeing a bleak future ahead. The media makes it worse by showing you negative news and airing pessimistic views all the time too. I mean, you could pick up a newspaper from 1985 or 1975 and look at the stories in it and it wouldn't be much different than today - it would be filled with news of struggles, economic problems, unemployment, complaints, crimes, wars, anxieties, uncertainty about the future, unstable foreign countries, threatening dictators, etc. So our attitude and negative/pessimistic views don't seem any different long ago as compared to today.

Here's a case in point: For as long as I can remember, the news has been portraying America as having high unemployment and not enough jobs. It's an issue in every Presidential election campaign, and news programs always talk about it as if it's a major problem to worry about. However, if you look in the newspaper classifieds or your local job bulletin board, you will always see many job openings in the help wanted section, of all types. And every time I have gone down to the local employment temp agency, they'd have work for me. So WTF?

Even today, with everyone saying that there are no more good jobs left in America, still, you can open any help wanted section in the paper, and see plenty of job openings to apply for, of all types in every category. Even more, many websites on the internet list countless thousands of job openings in every country, including America, all the time everyday. So why is there this constant talk of rising unemployment and no jobs left? WTF? Am I missing something here? (confused look)

The biggest difference between the past and present is that technology has made our life more convenient and efficient, consumerism has gone out of proportion, and family values have eroded with the rise of more materialism. But hey, 20 or 30 years ago, people were complaining about the same things, by the standards of that time as well. The mentality has always been the same, "the present has many problems, the future looks bleak, and things were better in the past."

Sure there is corruption, lies, cover ups, and conspiracies. And the US government has turned into a total a-hole after 9/11 and become a war mongering control freak and exploited others. But what's new? The US government and politicians have never been "goody two shoes" anyway. That's a myth, based on the tendency of remembering the past as better than it was. The truth is, the US government has always been a warmongerer, exploiter and a-hole. In the 1800's, they killed many Indians and Mexicans, stole their land, and broke promises and agreements. They stole Hawaii from the Hawaiians, enslaved other countries, engaged in corruption, etc. So what's new? People with power have always abused it and done evil things - lies, murder, crime, corruption, exploitation, you name it. This has been true all throughout history. How is it any different today?

So think about all that. Could we all be deluded with paranoia, pessimism, negativity in our minds, which makes us exaggerate the present state of affairs as worse than it really is, at least in the Western world?

Look at your life. The police don't bother you unless you've committed a real crime. The government ignores you. Heck you couldn't get the government's attention even if you tried - it simply doesn't have time to waste on you, unless you've committed a real crime. And no one is trying to arrest you for saying what's on your mind or believing what you do. So aren't you a lot better off than people who were arrested, persecuted or executed in the past for believing forbidden things? If so, why then do you see the current world as a terrible place with a bleak future? Look all around you: Food is everywhere. Conveniences are everywhere. Vehicles and aircraft are there to take you anywhere in the world. Sure there are problems, just as there have always been, and life is a struggle, just as it has always been. But as long as you have adequate food and shelter, you are well off, better than 3/4 of the world. So why is your mindset so negative, paranoid, and pessimistic? You gotta wonder...

Sure we are all slaves to money, which is the major impediment to most people's freedom. But that was true in the distant past too, ever since the bartering system was replaced with the monetary system. So again, what's new?

Does all this make sense? I know I'm playing devil's advocate here. But the above points are logical and true, at least in your everyday life, aren't they?

Suggestion:

Instead of trying to change or awaken the world, why don't you try to teach people to think for themselves and make better choices in their life, so they can have more freedom, happiness, peace of mind, and less stress? Teach and encourage others to be more spiritual and eliminate unnecessary junk from their lives. That's how you can really help others, rather than telling them about some "boogeyman in the shadows" or grand conspiracy and dystopia to worry about in the future which they can't do anything about even if true. That's all we can really do, is to take control over our own lives and our own minds, which are the only things we truly have sovereignty over.

I read something similar a while back that emphasized that right now - this day and age - we're living in the most peaceful time in recorded history.

The 24/7 news cycle really distorts and amplifies the negative.

When you think about it, you realize that the story is right. We are living in a time of relative peace and, doom and gloom over "markets" aside, a time of unequaled prosperity.

It's all about perspective.

Yea like i've told some of the police state people. The fact that you feel safe posting that crap on the net proves your wrong. You can slander America or western country's all you want without fear of reprisal. Really think before you accuse.

But... Then again, Maybe the lists are being made?



oh also like how this positive post gets no attention what so ever. People just love doom and gloom.

Great post.

reply to post by WWu777


I agree, sort of.

Freedom can be a fickle mistress. I mean, you mention the Western world quite a lot in your post but I don't believe in partial freedom. Saying, "we in the West have such freedom" is a misnomer, if "they" are not free, neither am I. Put more succinctly: "There is no such thing as a little freedom. Either you are all free, or you are not free."

I do agree that we all take our current existence for granted, I mean, to be alive is miracle enough!



Thanks for the thread, hopefully it starts off a lively discussion.

reply to post by LiveForever8


I think that was part of his point. We in the western world act like our worlds crashing down around us, yet theres people out there that truly know what it means to be oppressed.

Every time one of our freedom enjoying selfs makes comments on how oppressed we are I think of things like img2.catalog.photos.msn.com... and can't help but wonder how these folks would feel if they were put in that environment.

By claiming we have no freedoms we really slap the poor people of the world that truly deal with oppression, and true hardships day to day in the face.


Oh. yea that kid. Just got freed from a sweet shop. He not crying over not getting a video game he wants, Missing his favorite show, or being punished in his room. He just got freed from a life of slavery. Hes most likely crying from relief.

Put that in your oppressed pipe and smoke it.

reply to post by WWu777


I would agree that we are "freer" in many senses, but that doesn't mean the NWO agenda is losing.

The NWO needs global travel, global economy, global communications, and homogenized populations for their agenda to take effect and become a one-world government. They also have to convince the world why it is such a good idea. In fact, it is a pretty good idea if it could be done without corruption.

I agree, we are freer and more prosperous than ever before in history. That is all the more reason to be vigilant in keeping our guard up, and watching what is going on behind the curtain.

reply to post by Chargeit


True enough.

Of course the other side of the coin is equally as valid too. Regarding:

Originally posted by WWu777
Sure there is corruption, lies, cover ups, and conspiracies. And the US government has turned into a total a-hole after 9/11 and become a war mongering control freak and exploited others. But what's new?

So the world was a mess, and it still is, therefore we should continue to let itbe a mess? Just because it always was doesn't mean it always shall be. It is exactly because of that kind of attitude that we still find ourselves in this mess. Shrugging doesn't achieve anything.

Wallowing in self pity is equally as dangerous as seeing everything through rose tinted spectacles.

Name: Humanity
Grade: C −
Comments: Must try harder.

reply to post by LiveForever8


I've always considered myself a realist on the subject. As great as world peace and disarmament sounds, There will always be some ahole who wants what you have.

We could all be given access to everything we want need and desire. Some one will still come out of the wood works that wants more.

The fact of the matter is there's conflict in nature. Though we don't like to admit it we are still part of nature.

True peace is a myth that will never be realized sorry to say.


have to add peace is a myth that won't be realized as long as humans have individual thought. But if given a hive mentality then we're not human are we?

Originally posted by Chargeit
Yea like i've told some of the police state people. The fact that you feel safe posting that crap on the net proves your wrong. You can slander America or western country's all you want without fear of reprisal. Really think before you accuse.

But... Then again, Maybe the lists are being made?

edit on 14-6-2012 by Chargeit because: (no reason given)

oh

also like how this positive post gets no attention what so ever. People just love doom and gloom.

Great post.

edit on 14-6-2012 by Chargeit because: (no reason given)

Good point. However, just because there is no NWO/Illuminati conspiracy (which we can't rule out completely either) doesn't mean that there aren't conspiracies. It doesn't mean that there is no shadow government. It doesn't mean that the official version of every event presented by the government/media is the only valid truth there is. (Is that what you believe?)

There are many secrets in government, secret societies, and whistleblowers that testify to them. Many events do point to a conspiracy. For example, the official 9/11 story contains over 10 claims that are scientifically and logically impossible, which should raise many red flags that we were not told the truth about it. The JFK and RFK Assassinations contain much evidence suggesting that it was not just a simple case of a "lone nut". There are even whistleblowers testifying to it.

In addition, the existence of a shadow government is highly plausible and probable. And we are being fed propaganda all the time, no doubt. The government has been caught lying many times (e.g. death of Pat Tillman, rescue of Jessica Lynch, the faking of the Gulf of Tonkin incident which started the Vietnam War, etc.) so how can you know when they are lying or not? Why believe whatever they say and take it on faith? On what basis? Authority is not truth. And just because everyone around you believes in something, doesn't make it true.

So you see, conspiracies aren't black and white. You can't say that they are all false or all true. It's not that simple. You got to take each claim or event and evaluate the evidence pertaining to it. Don't you agree?

Besides, at elite levels of government, banking and secret societies, how do you know what's going on? How do you know what they are plotting? How can you say that they are plotting nothing and that there are no secrets? You can't really know that, can you?

How do you know that Alex Jones isn't a plant put there to discredit the conspiracy movement? He overacts on every little point, as though he's trying hard to look like a nut case.

David Icke says wonderful things. But he is so smooth and polished, as though every point he makes is rehearsed and practiced. Furthermore, how could a man with arthritis in one hand type up a 700 page book every few years? That doesn't add up, and no one on his forum can explain it. Is someone else writing his books? Is he sitting on a couch dictating while a transcriber takes down everything he says? If so, why does no one know about it? How does he get away with speaking on world tours?

How do you know these folks aren't leading you into another direction out of the way?

How do you know you aren't being manipulated?

Have you heard of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? There are even two films about it (which are available on YouTube). How do you know we aren't headed in that direction? We can't really know what's being planned for us can we?

reply to post by WWu777


I have to agree with one of the posters earlier to this that we are in probably once of the most peaceful times in history. I mean, we don't have hundred year wars going on, countries are not being invaded all the time for land. In old times we think are so great, you had no idea who might be ruling your country in the future. Unlike today, countries may have small battles and what we term as wars, but it was nothing like previously in human history.

Like you said in your post, we view the present as a terrible time and somehow previously in the violent history of humankind we think medieval, roman, greek, egyptian times were somehow much more nice. We might have plenty of corruption still today, but back in those times you could be blatantly mean, corrupt, and truly evil if you were the ruling force over the country with no worries of anything happening.

Also, one last thing about the title of the topic. please don't think I am being rude or condescending, I know how things can be taken way out of context on the internet. However, for the title it should be "more free" instead of "freer". For example, instead of saying he was being nicer, it should be he was being more nice. Please don't take it the wrong way, I tried my best not to sound like the idiots who just mock mistakes. Plus, I have no idea if English is a first language for you or not.

reply to post by WWu777


The world is MUCH more free than it ever has been. If you have money.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by WWu777

 

The world is MUCH more free than it ever has been. If you have money.

You mean like it has been throughout history? You know back in time you could actually pay the church money to clear your sins. So, people could do whatever they wanted and pay the church thinking they would still get into heaven(if you believe in that). Commit a crime in Roman times? Just pay them some money and you have no problems at all. Hell, had enough money back in those times you could buy slaves to do anything you want. I am just failing to see how your "point" has any relevance, the world was a hell of a lot more corrupt before now, ESPECIALLY if you had money back in older times.

Also, one random thought that I wanted to add as well. In older Chinese times, those wanting a new Katana could have it tested on criminals. It would vary based on their crime, but they could lose just an arm to being fully executed just to test out the sword for someone buying it. Which makes it worse because legal systems in ancient and medieval times were extremely corrupt, pretty much whoever had the most money would win. So, i can pretty much say, without a doubt, that innocent people were used as testing for Katana's.

One more thing to add to my article:

Of course, we are all slaves to money, just as we have always been ever since the barter system was replaced with money. However, consider this: No one is making you buy that expensive house or car. No one is making you take that stressful job to make ends meet. No one is making you accrue debt. Of course, our materialistic culture attempts to condition you to do those things. But you can always choose not to accept this conditioning by exercising your free will. Instead, you can make wise choices to live simply, and more spiritually, with less expenses and little or no debt. You can make smarter decisions that will lead to LESS financial burdens and thus become LESS enslaved to money. No one is forcing you not to.

Another sensible option is to live overseas in countries where the cost of living is a fraction of what it is in the Western world. Although this is a taboo option that may appear unpatriotic, in reality there are already millions of Americans living happily overseas with a lower cost of living and less financial burdens. Living outside of the Western world may sound extreme and unconventional, but it works for many. It's just that you never hear anything positive about it in the mainstream media, which isn't surprising anyway since the media feeds on negativity and are out to portray everything in the worst possible light. Therefore, they are the worst source available for info on life and the world.

I think one of the reasons for the popularity of conspiracy theories and doom and gloom dystopia predictions is our natural inclination toward the negative.

Why are people naturally inclined toward the negative?

Have you noticed that it's too easy to become fixated on the negative or become addicted to it and feed off it? Yet one has to work hard to stay positive? Why is that?

Why is human nature and our minds naturally fixated on sliding down into negativity? Why not the other way? Is there a reason for that?

Consider this: If you do 9 good things and 1 bad thing, people will remember the bad thing and forget the good things you did. That's human nature. Also, if someone spreads a negative lie about you, people will be quick to believe it, even without any evidence, as though they were eager to believe the worst about you. Why is that?

And of course, the news media feeds off our negativity. They constantly bombard us with the most negative stories that make us see the world in the most negative way - full of stress, conflict and tragedy - never showing us all the good decent people around us. The media always wants to portray everything in the worst possible light it seems.

Free? Us? Not really. You can say what you want as long as no one is listening. Start to make a difference and they kill you right away. Sometimes they wait a few years, like they did before they murdered Abbie Hoffman, but mostly they kill you right away. I do not have freedom to travel because I choose to imbibe in cannabis and got caught once. Therefore I am banned from Canada, England, and many more nations.

The thing is, for most of history, one had the chance to move away and live as you pleased. You could come to America or other places that were not under your nation's control. That's right, if things sucked too badly one could always go somewhere else. You can't do that these days. There is nowhere on Earth you can truly be free other than Antarctica. There are no desert islands you can go to that will support life and are not already inhabited and that has a government. There is no refuge place on Earth anymore. I cannot gather a few hundred people and move to a place and have our own laws and rules. Because EVERY place on Earth is under some government's control.

The ENTIRE WORLD has laws that tell you what you can ingest and what you can grow. Got an idea for a novel form of government and want to try it? Too bad. There are already governments in all areas. Even here in the "land of the free" there are so many laws that one is suffocated under their weight.

No, we are not free or even close anywhere in the world. Things are definitely worse now. Say what you want (long as no one is listening) do what you want (as long as no one sees) be what you want (as long as you follow all the rules and be a good peon). Yeah, that's freedom........NOT!

Originally posted by deathlord

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by WWu777

 

The world is MUCH more free than it ever has been. If you have money.

You mean like it has been throughout history? You know back in time you could actually pay the church money to clear your sins. So, people could do whatever they wanted and pay the church thinking they would still get into heaven(if you believe in that). Commit a crime in Roman times? Just pay them some money and you have no problems at all. Hell, had enough money back in those times you could buy slaves to do anything you want. I am just failing to see how your "point" has any relevance, the world was a hell of a lot more corrupt before now, ESPECIALLY if you had money back in older times.

Also, one random thought that I wanted to add as well. In older Chinese times, those wanting a new Katana could have it tested on criminals. It would vary based on their crime, but they could lose just an arm to being fully executed just to test out the sword for someone buying it. Which makes it worse because legal systems in ancient and medieval times were extremely corrupt, pretty much whoever had the most money would win. So, i can pretty much say, without a doubt, that innocent people were used as testing for Katana's.

edit on 16-6-2012 by deathlord because: Totally just had a random thought in my head to help add to the point.

LOL... Because romans could wake up in New York and have dinner in Paris? Sure. There was always the factor of wealth influencing what one could and couldn't do and get away with, but the rich are infinitely more free today than they have been at any time in recorded human history. They can hire entire farms filled with personnel to grow and tend to their own food so they don't have to eat the garbage they sell to us, they can fly around the world, Hell these days they can even go to space. Pretty sure no pharaoh or emperor has ever been able to do that previously (no matter how rich)

Does anyone have an explanation for this part below?

Here's a case in point: For as long as I can remember, the news has been portraying America as having high unemployment and not enough jobs. It's an issue in every Presidential election campaign, and news programs always talk about it as if it's a major problem to worry about. However, if you look in the newspaper classifieds or your local job bulletin board, you will always see many job openings in the help wanted section, of all types. And every time I have gone down to the local employment temp agency, they'd have work for me. So WTF?

Even today, with everyone saying that there are no more good jobs left in America, still, you can open any help wanted section in the paper, and see plenty of job openings to apply for, of all types in every category. Even more, many websites on the internet list countless thousands of job openings in every country, including America, all the time everyday. So why is there this constant talk of rising unemployment and no jobs left? WTF? Am I missing something here? (confused look)

reply to post by WWu777


I love this post. This is the way I feel, as well. No, we are not 100% free to do whatever we want, whenever we want to. Yes, we "have to" go to work to earn money to live. But when have people NOT worked to meet their needs? When have people EVER been as free as we are now, to do what we want, say what we want, BE what we want?

Our times are imperfect, but I would STILL rather be alive now than any other time in history.