An Open Letter To B'nai Brith Canada

Recently demonstrators in Montréal have been giving the raised armed, "fascist salute" to the police, to protest the methods used by police in street confrontations with the demonstrators.

B'nai Brith Canada, www.bnaibrith.ca... , has issued an offical statement condemning the demonstrators for doing so.

www.sunnewsnetwork.ca...

A major Jewish organization says Nazi salutes at student protests "defile the memory of the Holocaust."

B'nai Brith Canada says the one-armed salutes have caused "shock and outrage amongst the Jewish community."

Several young demonstrators gave the salute as they stood in front of the World Trade Centre Montreal in the heart of the city's financial district on Monday evening.

Protesters, including some who were masked, also gave the Nazi salute at a Montreal protest on Sunday.

B'nai Brith is demanding protest organizers apologize immediately.

"We condemn, in the strongest of terms, this inexcusable display by Quebec student protesters that has outraged the Jewish community," B'nai Brith Canada CEO Frank Diamant said in a statement from Toronto.

"The actions of these protesters, whether for the purposes of deriding Montreal police or drawing attention to their cause, defile the memory of the Holocaust and remind us just how quickly the manifestations of hate can venture their way into our public discourse."

This to me is an over-reaction by the Jewish community and an indication of a degree of self absorption which is detrimental to the greater good of society as a whole.

Organizations like B'nai Brith have spent decades alerting our society to the dangers of anti-semitism and have succeeded in great measure in making ordinary Canadians sensitive to the issue. For this we should be grateful. I, personally, am grateful for this. I appreciate the latent terror that must exist in the hearts of many of my Jewish friends.

I, to the best of my ability, commiserate with them.

I have done my utmost to battle the currents of neo-Nazism in the forums here on ATS. I have posted numerous times, exposing the myth of Hitler, The Economic Saviour of Germany, and the attempts to confuse people about the extent of the holocaust or about the intentions of the Nazis with regard to not only the Jews but many other ethnic and social groups lumped together as untermenschen.

However, in this case, I think that B'nai Brith is confusing cause and result. The holocaust was not caused by anti-semitism. Anti-semitism has been with humanity for well over a thousand years.

The holocaust was the result of fascist totalitarianism and police and military forces in the service of fascist totalitarianism.

Demonstrators in Montréal see fascist totalitarianism when they look at the police and their methods, just as demonstrators at the Toronto G-20 demonstrations experienced fascist totalitarian methods in their own confrontations with the police in this city.

Of course, the feelings and thoughts of the Jews must be respected and must be heard in matters concerning the holocaust. They were targeted in the most capricious and grievous way. A political movement attempted to murder them all.

But Jews must allow anti-fascists the liberty to invoke comparisons with the Nazis in the fight against the neo-Nazis and the fascist tendencies of our own police forces.

Jews suffered most from the activities of the Nazis but non-Jews suffered most in taking up the battle against the Nazis, and crushing them. We were in it together then.

My hope is that Jews would not hinder us now, when we rise against the new fascism. If you will not help us, please do not hinder us.

reply to post by ipsedixit


B'nai Brith Canada has been a royal in the arse for years now. They even influence Canadian policy in various ways with their over reactions and constant complaining. Their agenda is obvious and has no place in Canada and I would like to see them banned as a terrorist organization who promotes hate.

B'nai Brith, if you don't like Canada, then get out.

My hat goes off to the protesters in Montreal and they get my respect, minus the few rotten apples who I believe may be agent provacateurs.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Honestly I don't care what some Jewish group has to say about protests in Montreal. And those students would probably say the same.

It's a political statement as far as I'm concerned those Jewish advocacy groups can go back to Israel from where they care, instead of influencing Canadian Policy abroad and at home.

This whole country has been hijacked by special interests lately, and they dare complain when Canadians attempt to use their rights to protest?

It won't stand.

~Tenth

Originally posted by ipsedixit

This to me is an over-reaction by the Jewish community.

Wow, this so rarely happens.

/sarc off.

I don't know what the motivation is, but there has been a concerted effort in recent times by elements in the Jewish community and elements in the main stream media to take ownership of issues connected with Nazism/Hitlerism. There are numerous ways in which our society emulates Nazism, but the moment someone makes the connection to the ways of the Nazis, they are called offside by people who believe they own the Nazi experience.

My father flew in a cramped bomber over Germany to smash fascism. He and his friends endured a 50% casualty rate to get those bastards and nobody is taking the Nazi issue away from me.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

It's a political statement as far as I'm concerned those Jewish advocacy groups can go back to Israel from where they care, instead of influencing Canadian Policy abroad and at home.

This whole country has been hijacked by special interests lately, and they dare complain when Canadians attempt to use their rights to protest?

It won't stand.

~Tenth

I am of european origin and my uncle was killed in the concentration camp during the NAZI times. - I am not Jewish. I come from a catholic family, and so was he. He was not a socialist nor a communist either. Nor was he a gypsy or a homosexual. His "Crime" was that in the "Fake" refferendum in 1938 in Austria held by the NAZIs to make the annexation of Austria "Legal", - he dared to vote NO.
I have always opposed totalitarian regimes, no matter their colur, language and believes, Naturally the NAZI regieme is on my top list of "bad guys". But I dont give a flying "F***" if 600,000 or 6,000,000 jews dies in this. I want finally the "crybabies to stand up when they talk about the hoocaust and ADD with every reminder: "6,000,000 jews dies PLUS 5,000,000 Socialists, communists, gypsies, homosexuals, union leaders, student activists, pacifists, mentally challenged .... etc."
ONLY once ALL the numbers and victims are daily remembered when ever the word "holocaust" is said, will I begin to care about the jews.

I agree. The gesture was in protest of fascism, not in favor of it... I would think that B'nai Birth would agree with that.

I believe that this touches on a recurring problem, how minority voices are often greatly over-represented in the media. I'm sure that the vast majority understand exactly what the protesters' message was, only the very small group who are behind this letter are given overwhelming coverage.

Another (much more trivial example, I'll admit) was when Paul McCartney came to perform in Quebec. There was a letter of protest by a so-called "separatist" group complaining because he was British and would be performing in english. (I know, I know... don't get me started on that whole thing.)

Well, that letter made it on all the "news' networks around the world and became somewhat of a scandal. Guess what? It was signed by 13 people... and over 250 000 people attended the concert! Misrepresentation by the media much?

the Billmeister

What is this hogwosh now???

The Jewish community is trying to suggest that those of us who recognize truly the FOURTH REICHT RUNNING THIS SHOW, are not entitled to express that we know and mock them.

Well I would have to do the same and simply speak up, if anyone of that community needed some information about Project Paperclip, The Fourth Reicht, NWO, the state of affairs, the fasicsm and police corruption. I consider it an honor to educate others, the Bush's, Kissingers, Rockefellers, Windsors. Why even the Pope is/was a Nazi. NASA???? Sounds like this group needs a huge input of info.

I suggest these students make a public statement and hand out some informative flyers and really eduate their community and their awarness.

I think some education on Bayers, Monsanto, the NAZI behind Codex Alimentarius, and Big Pharma, would really benefit them a little as well. They need to do a bit more research before they twist something that is exposing real Fascism and Fourth Reicht agenda, with anti Jewish behavior.

I suggest these students post this and send to them ASAP:

www4.dr-rath-foundation.org...

Its something they need to understand about the world in general. Who got a UN ear, and started codex alimentairus, and who is behind big pharma, who owns Bayers and what relationship these corporations have with one another, ie. Bayers and Monsanto?

www.theecologist.org...

And oh look, amongst the Rockefeller, Kissinger, Bush, and Winsor crew of NAZI's, I left out Rothchild's, suddenly another famous minion name: DU PONT.

Originally posted by Guenter
"6,000,000 jews dies PLUS 5,000,000 Socialists, communists, gypsies, homosexuals, union leaders, student activists, pacifists, mentally challenged .... etc."

Guenter is quite right, and if the Nazis had not been stopped when they were, the death toll would have been many times the numbers he quotes.

The word holocaust has a specific meaning to Jews, but the word has acquired a broader meaning in the community as a whole. It is used to refer to wholesale slaughter in whatever context, wherever it occurs. It is a terrible thing and we can thank the Jews for giving a name to this most horrible of crimes.

The Nazis cut a swath of death across the political landscape of Europe starting even before they took power. The largest numbers of victims, fell to their racialist policies, but other pretexts led to the murder of many more who were political enemies, social "enemies", the mentally ill or simply people who got in the way of someone in the Nazi thug hierarchy.

Personally, I think it unlikely that there will ever again be another focused attempt to "rid the world of the Jews". The Jews have been around for a long time. They are a resilient people. The holocaust was the unlucky meeting of a crackpot's fantasy with the power of a fascist totalitarian dictatorship.

Unfortunately, B'nai Brith is focusing on crackpots, when the real and present danger is the rise of fascist totalitarianism.

Were Jews in the streets fighting the Nazis, alongside students like Konrad Heiden, in the 1920's when they were trying to stop Hitler before he got started? Undoubtedly there were some.

In Montréal the 1920s are now.

It has to do with Zionism and it's death grip hold on the Right-Wing in the Western world and they really are nothing short of Fascist as ironic as that is. Their strongest defense and it is scary how effective it is, is that if you are anti-zionist you are antisemitic. This is not true as many Jewish people are anti-zionists. They never talk about that though. I'm not the least bit surprised they have an issue with protesting Fascism.

reply to post by Kali74

Anyone, Jewish or otherwise, who is at the top of the economic ladder in our society, is not going to be demonstrating against fascism. If not fascists themselves, they earn their bread and butter in the current corporatist environment.

I understand that.

My point, leaving the complex history of the Jews and their relations with non-Jewish communities to the side, is that the Jews do not own anti-nazism and have no right to tell other anti-nazis that they must not refer to the original Nazis when they fight against the new nazis.

Flash Udate: I was outside on the balcony, enjoying a cigarette and a beverage when I heared this approaching roar that kept getting louder. I craned my head over the railing and two big prop-driven WW2 vintage airplanes flew directly over the house. One was a Lancaster bomber for sure. (Like Dad flew.) and the other one looked like maybe a B29 (It had no tail turret. I don't think it was a B-17. It looked pointy at the tail.) Is that an omen. I'll take it that way. Smash fascism!

reply to post by tothetenthpower

This whole country has been hijacked by special interests lately, and they dare complain when Canadians attempt to use their rights to protest?

It won't stand.

Well said!

They feel free to protest anything they want while they support one of the biggest terrorist organizations in the world (the IDF). Hypocrites like that have no place voicing their opinion in Canada.

Meanwhile great minds like George Galloway are not allowed into Canada, due to influence from groups like B'nai Brith.

George Galloway banned from Canada

To say we have been hijacked by special interests is an understatement.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
The Nazis cut a swath of death across the political landscape of Europe starting even before they took power. The largest numbers of victims, fell to their racialist policies, but other pretexts led to the murder of many more who were political enemies, social "enemies", the mentally ill or simply people who got in the way of someone in the Nazi thug hierarchy.

Were Jews in the streets fighting the Nazis, alongside students like Konrad Heiden, in the 1920's when they were trying to stop Hitler before he got started? Undoubtedly there were some.

In Montréal the 1920s are now.

edit on 14-6-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

You hit the nail on the head there!
I oppose totalitarian regimes no matter their colour, language, religion or party affiliation. There is a soft, (Consumer) totalitarism and a (Hard) one, i.e. Nazi style. Over the many decades that have passed since the end of WWII, the cry for "Never Again!" has unfortunatly become an "Over and Over Again!" Be it Cambodia, be it Sierre Leone, Uganda, Congo and so forth. It is not the question of the "Numbers"! It really dont matter if 11,000,000 died in WWII, or 11,000. The fact is that these people died for ulterior political motives! Even ONE dead is one too many! And this is what I try to hammer into people's heads since I was a teen.
When it comes to election for examplem, the common phrase is that's "the economy, stupid!' Sure, Nazi Germany had a great economy! Even Henry Ford and Lindberg were impressed! And YES, I would even try to copy parts of the German recovery into today's world incountries that are economicaly on the downwards spiral. However what really matters is what is "behind the scene". What personal freedoms does one have? What subjects can one freely debate over a beer without being cauhgt and thrown into a KZ?
In a nutshell, the "Nazi economical miracle" was a simple one! There was hardly any "money" involved. Hitler simply reasoned that depression or not, the agricultural fields of Germany still grow grains and potatos. And pigs and cows still went to the slaughter hosues. So give 1,000,000 people a shovel in their hands and let them build an Autobahn and ensure that the podatos and porkchops end up on their dinner plates. This is how one recovers without hard cash from a depression. And this model can be copied to any country to revive its infrastructure and so forth. But for this "miracle" one does not have to compromise ones natural freedoms and rights as well dignety as a human being and begin to goosestep and bark slogans!
And for our students in Montreal: Why should education not be free? Just with the warcrimes that Canada comitted in Libya and the cost of implementing them alone could pay a lot of PHD for our kids in the universities!
But returning to the Nazi salute and the pissed of Bnai Brith.
Maybe we should remind them about the Nueremberg War crimes tribunal, where the defense: "I just followed orders" were deemed not to be an excuse. Maybe this would also be applicable for our police force or army or what ever other government force. Maybe before they march up in rank and file to control students, they shopuld think about the MEANING of their orders. Do I really want to go against my OWN SON/Daughter? Also the same might not be physically present in these groups of students, they neverless are our OWN sons and daughters!
And there maybe we should remind all those who have sworn an oath to "Serve and protect" that about the MEANING of this oath, MY Conciense shall decide.

There are people, who, having read this thread, will say to themselves, "This guy, ipsedixit, is nuts. Nazis? Canada? The rise of fascism? What has this guy been smoking?"

Perhaps a word or two of explanation will make things clear to those unfamiliar with my thought processes on this question.

1. It is important, in the first place to understand that what I am talking about is fascism in the classic, oft quoted, definition given by Mussolini.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."

One sees this quotation over and over again, but try as I might, I couldn't find the original source, the writing or speech or occasion when Mussolini delivered this definition.

Historians will know that Mussolini's definition hardly covers all aspects of fascism. In fact the exact explication of his statement is the subject of disagreement. What exactly did he mean by "corporate power"? Did he mean corporations as we think of them or did he mean sub-units of the state representing different aspect of national productive capacities of every sort?

In Nazi Germany there was a distinct hand in glove relationship between corporations as we know them and the State, in the person of Hitler and the Nazi Party.

In our time, this Nazi manifestation has been linked to Mussolini's definition and put forward as a classic paradigm of fascism. Academics might very well roll their eyes at all of this and denounce it as a horrendous oversimiplification and falsification of the actual historical development of fascism.

Yet for all its simplicity, the definition, when viewed in the light of developments since WW2 and as a description of trends in goverment policy in the United States and elsewhere, has a relevance that is frightening.

In fascism, individual rights are subordinate to the rights of the State. State and corporate power are merged to secure and uphold the domination of the state over the individual.

I believe that is what is going on in the United States and other countries around the world, including Canada.

2. In the popular conception of fascism in Canada and elsewhere, fascists are uniform wearing racists who follow a demagogic leader, like Hitler. The average American or Canadian or Briton, failing to see uniforms, racism or a demagogue, goes back to TV, secure in the thought that fascism is not something that they should be worried about.

In emphasizing the superficial appearances of fascism and completely neglecting its structure and dynamics as a working political system, the media have done society an immense disservice.

Thanks to the media ordinary Americans and Canadians and Britons are not able to make the connections between what is happening in their own societies and fascism.

Thanks to organizations like B'nai Brith, Canadians have been led to equate Nazism and fascism with social atrocities and military agression only. They largely ignore the corporations that helped make those atrocities and that aggression possible.

Many of those very corporations are still around and doing business in America, Canada and the UK.

In looking at the fascism of today, I am alert to the signs of corporate influence on national policy. I'm not looking for bullies in the street wearing snappy uniforms, beating up Jewish businessmen.

That particular way of creating a fascist state has been tried. It didn't become a lasting proposition. A new approach is now being tried. The external trappings and nutty racial ideas have been dropped. The prime movers are not political as in the case of Nazi Germany.

This time fascism is coming like a fungal growth, emanating out of the boardrooms of transnational corporations.

Corporations that produce the scanners for airports, the cameras for streetcorners, the audio equipment for surveillance, the military hardware, the ammunition, the drones, in short all the hardware and services that are part and parcel of the foreign policy postures and activities of NATO countries, and the national security policies of those same countries.

Corporate agendas have been driving international aggression and outright war for generations. There is nothing new about that.

What is new is the degree to which, in the service of corporate agendas, the screws are being tightened on ORDINARY CITIZENS!!!

I am going to state a very important concept. Pay attention, Canada, America and Great Britain. It is going to be on the exam. If you don't know this fact, you will flunk the future.

"Fascism in the 21st century is the transformation of the corporation into a fungal growth." - attrib. ipsedixit, occasion unknown.

It is very important to understand this concept because it makes a lot of the bizarre manifestations of 21st century fascism understandable. Otherwise, everything seems like madness and everyone seems to be crazy.

3. Far be it from me, in a discussion of fascism, to refer to anyone as subhuman. However, even in the age of the new paganism, the living earth, Gaia, the new eco-totalitarianism, I think I am safe in referring to fungi as subhuman.

A.J.P. Taylor, the British historian, once referred to the nation state as a sort of giant worm, moving like a shapeless, sightless blob, driven by impulses that were very difficult to determine precisely and in directions that were hard to rationalize.

He discounted the importance of even a dictator like Hitler in determining the movements of Germany leading up to WW2.

Fungi grow in the directions favorable to growth.

Nothing else is of importance to them. And so it is with twenty-first century fascism. The modalities of this latest form of corporatism have one end and one end only as object and goal. Growth.

I am not going to expand on this because one would have to be an imbecile to miss this as the single most important characteristic of the activities of trans-national corporations in the time since WW2.

Almost sixty years later, we have run into resource shortages and fascism has had to shift much of the effort into growing the military and security apparatus, in order to maintain growth.

This is like blight on the mold. The hitherto benign seeming fascism that made America rich is turning into a kind of fascism with which Hitler would be only too familiar, the fascism of the militaristic, agressive surveillance state.

And it happened in a kind of mindless way. No evil Hitlerian genius planned it from the beginning. It just turned out that way. Fungus is like that. Eventually it just becomes a slimy mess over everything.

Look at what America is becoming.

4. Here is an example from the fungus-like growth of fascism in Canada, a classic example of fungus driven fascism.

www.thestar.com...

The Harper government has backed off on plans to install listening devices at Canadian airports and border crossings amid serious concerns about privacy.

The decision by Public Safety Minister Vic Toews on Tuesday to halt the practice of eavesdropping on travellers’ conversation follows a backlash from both federal and provincial privacy officials.

The Department of Public Safety in Canada had decided to install high definition cameras and sophisticated listening devices at all border crossings to the United States and in all airports.

Many, including governemnt officials themselves, regarded this development as potentially sinister and a distinct threat to citizens' reasonable expectations of privacy in personal conversations. 1984 all over again.

Well and good. Even the Public Safety Minister, Vic Toews, reacted by backing down almost immediately on beginning the surveillance.

We are in the realm of the irrational here. What could possibly have motivated this inane development in the national security regime?

Most obviously this is an outgrowth of fungal fascism creeping in from the United States. I believe that, like many of the national security measures taken or about to be taken in the US, the airport scanners and frisking of everyone getting on airplanes, the deployment of surveillance drones, etc., that this development, audio visual surveillance installations in canada have substantially nothing to with security.

They are examples of corporate fungal fascism. They are attempts to maintain growth in the state security industry, a very important, high tech wing of the military industrial complex.

In fascism, the rights of individuals are subordinated to the interests of the State, the fascist or corporatist State.

This initiative by the State, here in Canada, and their quick retreat from implementation, reveals that there is no security issue of importance involved with this equipment. None.

This is being done to sell technical security stuff because that is the business that the world's dwindling energy resources have put the fascists in.

Julie Carmichael, a spokesperson for Toews, said Canadians made it clear they weren’t happy with the idea of having their conversations monitored.

Carmichael said Toews directed the CBSA to halt audio monitoring until a Privacy Impact Assessment can be submitted, and recommendations from the privacy commissioner can be reviewed by the government.

I have no doubt that the government will do everything in its power to retain the equipment already installed and to complete the program of purchases and installation of this equipment.

Do I think the government really cares what you talk about in line at the airport? No. They couldn't care less.

They could not care less what you talk about. In fact they would love it if you would blow up a departure lounge just so they could increase sales of security surveillance equipment and increase industrial activity in this sector generally.

That is why there are provocateurs among the police at demonstrations. That is why the arrival of Luca Magnotta in Montreal became a photo-op for the police and military, "the good guys", "we need more of them", fifty or so heavily armed cops and soldiers doing something that used to be done by one RCMP officer with a mean disposition.

That is how nutty things have gotten.

Listen up Canada. 9/11 is the origination of all of this insanity and 9/11 was an inside job

Look at WTC 7.

Its collapse was a controlled demolition. 9/11 was the day that the fungus slipped out of the petrie dish.

Now it is sliming up everybody, everywhere. It has got to stop. Support the students of Montreal. Smash fungal fascism!!