Did Early Egyptians Base There Gods On What They Saw?

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
The reed on the left of the image is a number, hundreds or thousands i think (don't remember, and can't find my textbook this morning.) [//quote]
There's a bee in front of it. It's 'nsr bty' (King of upper and lower Egypt)

You can see the rows of vertical hashmarks next to it, that show horizontal streaks of erosion, indicating that the whole panel has serious horizontal cracking going on.
Badly faded symbol for "foreign lands"

The egyptians, when they carved symbols, didn't do that. They didn't carve grooves or ridges down inside each symbol. Look at the better preserved symbols on the left, and you'll see what I'm saying. So it's safe to conclude that the "antigrav" images are either seriously eroded or defaced. Sometimes a pharaoh would deface the name of the previous guy, in order to steal his glory.

Got it in one! The son decided to replace his father's titles with his name and titles.

If they saw these objects in the sky, how come there's no glyph for sky on this panel? If I'm right about the number and the symbol for opening, it looks like this panel is counting something that belongs to the pharaoh whose name appears in the cartouche to the left of the symbols in question.

It's an inscription on the top of a doorway.

indeed the only image in that link that raises my interest is the helicopter.. fairly unmistakable.. and off the top of my head i can't think of anything else that looks even remotely close to that, the other symbols could indeed be anything.. but as previously stated if you did see something that amazing why hide it up the top of some doorway? surely it would be more heavily documented.

Originally posted by GoldEagle
I read a few years ago and I just recently revisited the topic on Ancient Egypitian gods.

It is thought that these early gods might actually be from extraterrestrials creating beings which could be viewed as gods. These "gods" might have been experiments by aliens, ex. dog-human hybrids.

The reason I'm posting this is because we are having a debate very soon about this and i need as much information as you people can dig up.

I think you should probably take the stance of debunking the idea.

The original Egyptian gods are actually tribal deities. As people gathered in groups, and then settled into cities and developed governments and religious institutions, the larger areas' gods took over other tribes' gods. Usually they'd end up in a friendly assimilation, though sometimes they'd just combine the attributes of both and combine their names. The deity considered the oldest is Horus (actually, there were two gods named Horus) in his form as a hawk. Horus was a fairly important god for quite awhile.

(by the way, jackals aren't dogs. They are canines, yes, but not dogs)

Anubis (Wepauet) is not the oldest and certainly not the youngest. Bast (incorrectly called Bastet) is older than he is, as are a number of other gods. They also change their shapes over time as they merge with other gods... Anubis originally was just a jackal (and the symbol for the name 'Wepauet' is a jackal lying on a monument.)

I think he doesn't become important as the god of the embalmers until later in the Old Kingdom (about 400-800 years after the founding of the Egyptian dynasties.)

Originally posted by perverse
indeed the only image in that link that raises my interest is the helicopter.. fairly unmistakable.. and off the top of my head i can't think of anything else that looks even remotely close to that, the other symbols could indeed be anything.. but as previously stated if you did see something that amazing why hide it up the top of some doorway? surely it would be more heavily documented.

The "helicopter" is actually the shape of a mummy lying down (part of the old title) that's been defaced.

And remember, the image you see has been HEAVILY Photoshopped. When you see the original, it looks a whole lot less like a helicopter.

We don't need photoshoped images to show there were indeed ancient air craft
There are frescos throughout Europe which reveal the appearance of space ships in the skies including one from the 14th century showing a small human looking man looking over his shoulder as he flies across the sky in what is clearly a space ship. He is actually being pursued by a similar craft.



Childs Toy found in a Tomb
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by perverse
indeed the only image in that link that raises my interest is the helicopter.. fairly unmistakable.. and off the top of my head i can't think of anything else that looks even remotely close to that, the other symbols could indeed be anything.. but as previously stated if you did see something that amazing why hide it up the top of some doorway? surely it would be more heavily documented.

The "helicopter" is actually the shape of a mummy lying down (part of the old title) that's been defaced.

And remember, the image you see has been HEAVILY Photoshopped. When you see the original, it looks a whole lot less like a helicopter.

Oh I wasn't aware of that. Could you please hyperlink to the original pre-photoshopped image.

[edit on 8-10-2004 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy


Oh I wasn't aware of that. Could you please hyperlink to the original pre-photoshopped image.

[edit on 8-10-2004 by Lucid Lunacy]

I'm not completely convinced it is a photoshoped version. I have search extensively for an "original" photo but there seems to be none other than the one shown.....I also have not found anything stating that there is proof positive that is a photoshoped version. However, I remember seeing that when I was younger, well before there was Photo Shop and the computer generation!

LadyV.

Without knowing the context of the two "aircraft" images you posted (and context is everything in art history) my first guess is that if there is text accompanying either of those pictures, they will describe the "genius" of the comets shown, which brought death and plague in their wake.

Medieval people believed that each celestial body had an intelligent spirit (look in a dictionary at the original meaning of "genius"). Comets were usually seen as prophets of doom, causing sickness and the deaths of kings.

The first image shows a comet with a spike coming out the front of it, just like comet Hyakutake displayed in 1996; in fact, Hyakutake went in a retrograde (apparently reversed) motion through part of its visible trajectory in the sky. So perhaps the genius looking over his own shoulder is a way of showing the retrograde movement of an early view of Hyakutake or a similar comet.


Then we have the famous golden moth from a sumerian tomb. Of course to us, it looks like a french mirage Jet. In order to see that, we must ignore the curly-ques on the wings and the antenna on the moth's head, as well as the deep groove for the moth's segmented body where the cockpit should be. It helps if we don't connect the imagery of the moth as a symbol of corruption, and the fact that golden moths were kept in tombs in the hope that they would magically ward off "moth and rust" in the tomb. It also helps if we magnify the object about 15 times and call it a child's toy, when it is actually about the size of a human thumb. (the size of an actual moth.)

Am I wrong? Quite possibly. But the burden of proof is not on me. Perhaps one or more of these images actually IS of an ET encounter. But if so, it was unimportant. Because it has had no lasting impact on our religion, or our science or politics.

I DID go to the crystal links website, and was horrified by the absolute RAPING of the truth and history so that the author could claim that a reptilian race pestered the ancient Assyrians.

The single worst is an image labeled "DOGON GODS." This is about three layers of misinformation/lie. First, the image is of a panel showing the Assyrian consquest of Canaanite and Judean tribes. ( Notice that it looks so similar to the Assyrian Bas-relief posted above it on the website. The reason is that it's part of the SAME bas-relief!) There is a little glyph of a winged sun, similar to the Egyptian cneph. The image has nothing to do with the Dogon. The Dogon are a tribe in Africa, 2700 years later, who had no beliefs in Assyrian deities. But the author says they believed in reptilids who came from the star Sirius. Which is a misquote of a forged anthropology report from 1947. You can read more about it here:

www.bbc.co.uk...

It bothers me that people who make these sites are so intellectually dishonest. They really could care less about what the photos they post actually come from, or what they represent, or what ancient people were trying to communicate with the images. And if modern new-agers must post a few lies in order to "prove" that reptiles from nibiru came here 3000 years ago, then that's just fine with them.

It is also the opposite of "Deny Ignorance."

I found a good site on this
www.alien-ufo-pictures.com...
It has a lot of pictures on aliens and info on how they may have built the pyramids

I believe the Egyptians based their Pantheon of Gods on the Mesopotamian, Sumer Model. The Sumer city states of the fertile cresent all shared a common religion that included a Pantheon of 12 main gods, These gods all had an official name; a name epithet; a numerical rank; and (usually) a planetary association, that included all the planets, even the ones supposedly discovered in modern day, this tradition continued thiughout Greek and Roman culture, having come through Egypt.
The sumers believed gods came here from another planet, Nibiru, later in Babaylon the name was updated to reflect the city states ruling diety, "Marduk". The Babaylonian creation epic, " The Enuma Elish ", is based on these older Sumer written records.
The Sumers said: " all that we know we learned from the gods." they called these starpeople the Annunaki.

Another history, comes to us from the oral tradition in the Dogon tribe of North Africa. The Dogon pocessed advanced knowlege of astronomy.
when visited in the 1930's the teachers of that tribe told the visiting cultural tnthropologists Siruis was a tri-star system.
The first Western scientists to visit and study the Dogon people were French anthropologists Drs Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who initially made contact with them in 1931, and continued to research them for the next three decades, culminating in a detailed study conducted between 1946-1950. During their work, these anthropologists documented the traditional mythology and sacred beliefs of the Dogon, which included an extraordinary body of ancient lore regarding Sirius the brilliant, far-distant Dog Star.

Their priests told them of a secret Dogon myth about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the Earth. The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis.
Sirius which we now call Sirius A - was not seen through a telescope until 1862 and was not photographed until 1970.
The Dogon name for Sirius B (Po Tolo) consists of the word for star (tolo) and "po," the name of the smallest seed known to them. By this name they describe the star's smallness -- it is, they say, "the smallest thing there is."

They also claim that it is "the heaviest star," and white.

The tribe claims that Po is composed of a mysterious, super-dense metal called sagala which, they declare, is heavier than all the iron on Earth. Not until 1926 did Western science discover that this tiny star is a white dwarf a category of star characterised by very great density. In the case of Sirius B, astronomers have estimated that a single cubic metre of its matter weighs about 20,000 tonnes.

Many artifacts were found describing the star system, including a statue examined by Dieterlen that is at least 400 years old.
hope this helps with your debate.

Originally posted by LadyVOh I wasn't aware of that. Could you please hyperlink to the original pre-photoshopped image.
[edit on 8-10-2004 by Lucid Lunacy]

No hay problemo! Here ya go:
from www.catchpenny.org...



And here is a diagram of the symbols (newer stuff is in cyan, older in red):
www.catchpenny.org...

i dont think they got their gods were dog-human hybrids and that they were alien experiments,they simply saw certain animals as gods because of their strengths,look,etc.anubis,a dog,dogs are protective animals to their masters,the egyptians possibly deeply appreciated that and saw dogs fitted as a god and crowned it anubis,other gods such as the human with a cocodile head,possibly simply showing the power and wrath of the gods.

Originally posted by LadyV

LadyV, these images are part of a fresco showing the Crucifixion. The two humans represent the sun and the moon and not a UFO chase.

Originally posted by RedHerring
I believe the Egyptians based their Pantheon of Gods on the Mesopotamian, Sumer Model. The Sumer city states of the fertile cresent all shared a common religion that included a Pantheon of 12 main gods, These gods all had an official name; a name epithet; a numerical rank; and (usually) a planetary association, that included all the planets, even the ones supposedly discovered in modern day, this tradition continued thiughout Greek and Roman culture, having come through Egypt.

Can you give a source for this information? It's definitely news to me. The Egyptian religion, at least to my knowledge, was quite different from that of Sumer. The Sumerians were much more interested in Cosmology (how the universe is put together) and astronomy/astrology than the Egyptians ever were. Most Egyptian deities were simply local gods that were 'melded' into 'national' deities as Upper and Lower Egypt became an Empire. I don't know of any planetary associations for the Egyptian gods, except those assigned to them in the 19th century by Aliester Crowley & the Golden Dawn.

The primary Sumerian gods WERE the planets. To the Egyptians, the movement of the "wandering stars" had no cosmic significance. The Greeks got their interest in astrology from Babylon rather than Thebes.

You mention that the Sumer gods had " (usually) a planetary association, that included all the planets, even the ones supposedly discovered in modern day."

How could that be? What names did they give for Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto? Those names were invented in the 17th - 20th centuries, because there were no names for the planets, precisely because the ancients were IGNORANT of them! Do you know of primary references in cunieform to the outer planets????

Originally posted by RedHerring
Another history, comes to us from the oral tradition in the Dogon tribe of North Africa. The Dogon pocessed advanced knowlege of astronomy.
when visited in the 1930's the teachers of that tribe told the visiting cultural tnthropologists Siruis was a tri-star system.
The first Western scientists to visit and study the Dogon people were French anthropologists Drs Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who initially made contact with them in 1931, and continued to research them for the next three decades, culminating in a detailed study conducted between 1946-1950. During their work, these anthropologists documented the traditional mythology and sacred beliefs of the Dogon, which included an extraordinary body of ancient lore regarding Sirius the brilliant, far-distant Dog Star.

If you will take the time to look at the site I referenced before:
www.bbc.co.uk...

you will see the following quote:

The strongest challenge to that study did not come until 1991, when Walter Van Beek led a team of anthropologists to Mali. He declared that, in the decade he spent with the Dogon, he found no trace of detailed knowledge about Sirius. Griaule claimed that 15% of the tribe possessed such knowledge. Van Beek was fortunate enough to speak to some of the same Dogon as Griaule, but he reports:

'though they do speak about sigu tolo8 they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule'

Notice that last sentence.

They learned about Sirius from the Anthropologist!

Deny Ignorance, and check up on some of the facts quoted by "ancient astronaut" websites. Much of their content is fictional. It's too bad that so many people are misled by them, when the truth is so much more interesting.

If belief in ancient astronauts is based on such a shoddy foundation of half-truths, it is no wonder more people don't take it seriously

would you by any chance have more info on the ancient battery
of Iraq:

news.bbc.co.uk...

and info of the ancient plane artifacts found in the pyramids of Mexico?

I haven't got any direct links on the web for you.

My belief that the batteries of Baghdad were used for electroplating is merely that: my personal belief. The article you linked to certainly makes it sound like that idea is less that plausible. Personally, the lack of any kind of wires, and the presence of wine/vinegar makes it sound like the most probable hypothesis. I personally subscribe to it based not on someone else's findings, but on my own researches into the history of alchemy.

As for the mexican airplane.
Obviously, I was mistaken about that artefact's provenance, and am not knowledgeable enough to comment on it in any case. I was confusing it with other artefacts from Sumer. (I have been reading up on moth and bee imagery in antiquity, for a lecture I was preparing.)

I don't work as an archaeologist now, and have not taught professionally in that field in a decade. My information is obviously to anecdotal and dated for this kind of discussion, even on the net.

I certainly have my own conclusions that I've reached, and am comfortable with. I didn't just pick 'em because that's what I was taught, or because I don't believe in ancient astronauts.

I think that, for the most part, other posters ignore my comments. Looking back on my posts, I DO notice a lot of things I've written where I needed to google a bit more before replying, to get facts and conclusions right. Honestly, that would take more effort that I'm willing to invest, if the only 'payoff' is being ignored or having my replies picked apart.

This is my last post on this thread, and probably on ATS for a while. The political threads are too negative, the conspiracy threads are passe, and the rest is people who really just want to hear their own views. Guess I'm growing out of that phase.

Affirm Honest Inquiry.
Deny Ignorance.

I thank you for both your reply as well as the information on the
"Batteries of Baghdad".
If you should ever run across, or come upon any information/links on the ancient
plane artifacts of Mexico, I would certainly love to read it.
Start a thread on it.

As for people reading the information that you post, believe me they
read it.
They my not respond, but they are reading...