Adam Kokesh Accuses ATS of 'Consensus Cracking'

So I had seen a couple of videos this guy put out, and thought that they were pretty good. Seems to be in line with the message that Ron Paul delivers.

So to learn a little more about him, I went to his site, and then to his forums. I was surprised to see, just browsing around, a post he made about the control of forums. And I was pretty startled to see this:

This came to me without attribution, but anyone who spends any time on any forums that are challenging the status quo of anything should read this first:

COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum..

There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a 'uncontrolled forum.'

Technique #1 - 'FORUM SLIDING'

If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum - it can be quickly removed from public view by 'forum sliding.' In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to 'age.' Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a 'forum slide.' The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a 'forum slide' and 'flush' the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then 'replying' to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting 'slides' down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.

Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING'

A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at www.abovetopsecret.com) is 'consensus cracking.' To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger 'evidence' or disinformation in your favour is slowly 'seeded in.' Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then 'abort' the consensus cracking by initiating a 'forum slide.'

forums.adamvstheman.com...

Bold emphasis mine.

And by proxy, he is also accusing ATS of creating fake accounts to accomplish this. Now I dunno bout you's, but I've been around here a long time, and it would be a pretty big shocker to find out that Mark and Bill, or ANY of the crew for that matter, would be involved in something like this!

says it happens on ATS all the time. not accusing ATS of actually doing it.

but ppl forum members can make multiple fake accounts. by posting to an older thread bumps it above the others. bump enough and a new thread could end up on page 2.

now how many ppl, go to page 2?

i believe this is the forum sliding he speaks of

and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped.

Never have seen this on here ever looks like someone is jealous.

Wait, so Adam has an account on ATS?

Hmm, I wonder who he is...

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
Wait, so Adam has an account on ATS?

Hmm, I wonder who he is...

Probably has several "multiple accounts" sounds like he speaks from expierence.

Well there are threads i am sure we would all like to see "slide" into oblivion.

Usually about 50 nonsense threads a day made by teenage Facebookers..

As for Consensus Cracking, i have seen some teamplay in action, not by Admin but by member groups !!

Cosmic..

reply to post by neo96


It's probably you, PAL!

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I believe it. I am a very new member and already, it seems obvious.

Moved this silliness out of the trash where it resided until senior admin could make a decision. Put it in general chit chat -- I had no idea where else to send it, as it seems too pathetic for Jokes & Puns.

This is not happening.

This has never happened.

I've invested far too much time and energy into creating a member-directed editorial system (flags & stars) that automatically moves highly-flagged threads to the forefront, to ever consider doing the types of things the other person/site mentions.

They are lies. It's false. It would go against every principle on which we stand.

Originally posted by ScatterBrain
I believe it. I am a very new member and already, it seems obvious.

Then you believe lies without doing your own fact-checking.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I'm surprised you moved it back out of the trash bin and reopened the thread... I was totally fine with the trash bin Just ask...well, you know who.

It's nice to have the word from ATS admin that those accusations are baseless. The flag system is a reasonable counter argument against this happening.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Moved this silliness out of the trash where it resided until senior admin could make a decision. Put it in general chit chat -- I had no idea where else to send it, as it seems too pathetic for Jokes & Puns.

This is not happening.

This has never happened.

I've invested far too much time and energy into creating a member-directed editorial system (flags & stars) that automatically moves highly-flagged threads to the forefront, to ever consider doing the types of things the other person/site mentions.

They are lies. It's false. It would go against every principle on which we stand.

actually.. not to downplay your hard work. but what he speaks of is possible.

if i had a team of say 20 friends/shills/trolls whatever u want to call them... and we want to create disinfo for certain topics.. believe me.. it can be done.. manipulate the board using the forum sliding technique pushing topics we dont want to gain public notice down the page or further back to page 2 or 3 where ppl never really look by bumping other topics over it.

just saying.. it's possible. who knows.

the whole consensus cracking thing seems like adam is just misinformed or hasn`t put in enough time to relies that ats'rs are to sharp for that jazz!

Originally posted by 0mage
manipulate the board using the forum sliding technique pushing topics we dont want to gain public notice down the page or further back to page 2 or 3 where ppl never really look by bumping other topics over it.

Except that the core architecture of ATS has been re-imagined to be somewhat different from a standard forum, and those disruption "techniques" have a diminished effect because of the way we aggregate content.

The "article" is misplaced speculation, presented as fact, and nothing more than another sad attempt to fabricate lies about ATS and its members.

It's a well-known fact that forum website admin the world over have their "staff" accounts and also other accounts so that they can post their non-pc or other persona POVs on said site. It keeps stuff ticking over and allows them a little amusement at the same time. Who here really believes that this site is somehow extraordinary in that sense?

I've been here long enough to have witnessed the above methods as well as others happen time and time again. You may claim that it doesn't happen, and you may like to believe that, but I believe my own observations long before I believe anything or anyone else. Whether it happens due to staff involvement or not is something else altogether. It doesn't take a genius to create multiple accounts. Just takes a little IT savvy. It takes a bit more effort to catch that stuff though. Maybe you could consider that it happens even if you aren't the ones doing it, SO.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
It's a well-known fact that forum website admin the world over have their "staff" accounts and also other accounts so that they can post their non-pc or other persona POVs on said site. It keeps stuff ticking over and allows them a little amusement at the same time. Who here really believes that this site is somehow extraordinary in that sense?

I don't believe it for a second. And I don't believe for a second that SO is unaware of this practice either, so I guess that makes him a.... person who is not always quite truthful.

Just my personal opinion.

reply to post by CosmicEgg




I totally agree with you.

I'm not saying I believe the article but you are correct about staff and puppet accounts on websites.... pretty sure it's standard practice.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
It's a well-known fact that forum website admin the world over have their "staff" accounts and also other accounts so that they can post their non-pc or other persona POVs on said site. It keeps stuff ticking over and allows them a little amusement at the same time. Who here really believes that this site is somehow extraordinary in that sense?

You're referring to the typical techniques unethical forum operators use to create the appearance of a vibrant and active forum in the effort to attain new levels of traffic.

1) ATS has been "vibrant and active" since 2005, and more so every year.

2) ATS has a great deal of traffic

3) ATS has more than 14 million posts.

We've long passed the point where those techniques might be necessary/considered... and also well past the point where it would make any difference.

I've been here long enough to have witnessed the above methods as well as others happen time and time again. You may claim that it doesn't happen, and you may like to believe that, but I believe my own observations long before I believe anything or anyone else.

You're not being truthful, because it's not happening.

Do some research on an old staff member (Super Moderator) named "netchicken." He was banned for "stirring the pot" using the techniques you've outlined.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


That was probably a long time ago. It's unethical if you say so. It's more like being one person at work and one at home. I consider that to be blatant lying but it's expected in today's world as it stands currently. Hopefully that will change very, very soon. For now though, it's the way things are done.

As for your traffic, that really makes the claim of this sort of thing happening even more compelling. You all really do a lot of thoughtpolicing here. Sooo much we can't talk about, and yet out in the real world there are whole forums about those "illicit" topics. Absurd! It's like daycare here sometimes and at other times it's an Orwellian outpost. You can't say that tptb have no influence here. You can smell it. I know how that smell on a very intimate level.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


Man! Talk about paranoid!

Geez dude, I can't understand why you even visit this site if that's the kind of mistrust you have acquired for the owners/staff of ATS. :shk: If I EVER felt that way I would have been out of here long ago. I agree it might be possible on a small scale that outside users might be doing bad things trying to sway opinions on a particular issue, but if I've ever seen it, users like that eventually don't survive and get banned anyway- and their effects are pretty minimal, if any.