Deny your ignorance about Germany

I haven't watched the video yet, but I do want to weigh in on Germany's success. I lived in Germany (in Bavaria to be more specific) for about two years. I was very young then, but old enough to remember a few key parts. Germans have a LOT of pride in their work, craftsmanship, culture and art. This is a generalization about German people (after all, every village has it's idiot as they say), but most of them enjoyed a certain kind of order. They kept their houses and yards clean, there was hardly any crime, they enjoyed their weekends and holidays, and they were fairly welcoming to foreigners. We did experience some anti-immigrant sentiments, but they were few and far between. I think Germans were mainly concerned that they would be over-flooded with immigrants who did not hold their values. However,... as soon as they got to know you and realized you had the same goals as they and you were willing to learn their language (blend into their society), their tune changed and became very friendly. This is partly a truthful observation. Many immigrants from the poorer countries did not value order, cleanliness and aversion to theft like the German natives did. Germans were more disciplined and that is why I feel they have been such a success. Not all of their policies are perfect, but they do try. This is why I feel they are such a success compared to some of the other countries in Europe. O.K.... now I'm off to watch that video.

EDIT: to add that I just watched the video and I pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's that work ethic and pride in their craftsmanship that keep them going so strong! Remember people,.... after WWI and WWII Germany was completely devastated by war. Many places were nothing but rubble. It took them a VERY short time to get back on their feet despite the war debts they incurred and the money they were ordered to pay to other countries for the destruction they caused. They are a model of the diligent worker-bees.

I'm very much German by heritage, and have great pride for that. I think, however, an important point needs to be brought up in this love-fest for Deutschland: the fact that her people and her leaders can be (and are) quite different things. I do not believe the German people would support the wholesale fleecing of Europe that the German leadership may or may not be engaged in at the moment and in the future, but I also do not believe that the German leadership is stupid or new to this game.

Germany did not cause the problems the Euro states now face, but I do very much believe the leadership is now poised to take advantage of it, and that they will do so before this is all said and done. I don't think one could call it "fraud" in the legal sense, because everything is in the open and on the table. But when Germany starts talking about trading more and more increasingly worthless Euros for gold collateral *knowing full well* (just like the rest of us) that many of these states have no hope of actually righting their financial systems under the Euro (or, indeed, under any fiat system), I have to wonder whether they are simply trying to beat the rest of Europe at its own game. It's no secret that the EU was in part designed to keep the newly-reunified Germany in check, and I admit I would feel a little bitter about that slap in the face. It seems to me that the leadership might be rather happy about the idea of holding all of the fiscal (and therefore political) power in Europe, and perhaps the world, so the idea that because Germany's people are great we shouldn't be suspicious and watchful of its government, to me, is unwise. I love my fellow Americans as well, but trust the leadership about as far as I can throw them.

Still, you're right, bringing the Nazi comparisons into this is childish, unproductive and tacky as all hell. It's a thread-killer in the worst sense and totally off the mark.

well its about time someone mentioned it,,
yes Ron Paul is German,,big whoop,,
thats why "they" dont want too elect him,,
i think he needs too say,,

Eiche Biene,
sorry im not German,, but everyone knows what i mean,,

for America,,

And Germany's backing would be cool

reply to post by 00nunya00


I've lived in Germany(as a GI) and traveled and traded there (as a businessman and tourist) and have a great respect for the German people. Their nationalist pride was perverted by the Nazis, and their Prussian character component was manipulated to great malevolence in both World Wars. Their core values of hard work, diligence, respect for family and society, honoring education and order are what has made them a great people and country.
They have been betrayed by those that have taken advantage of their optimistic acceptance of charismatic "leaders" but, I believe, have grown to understand the dangers of their natural tendency to accept leaders' edicts without due diligence. It's astounding how Germany has successfully assimilated and absorbed what was "East Germany" knowing full well the incredible costs(financial, political and social) involved.
However, I also believe the U.S. specifically, and the Allies committed egregious and unconscionable acts after VE day, by allowing Nazi war criminals to not only evade/avoid punishment(e.g., in the case of Albert Speer "Hitler's architect" and Minister of Armaments, who only served 20 years in Spandau), but allowing and aiding them to move to the U.S., become citizens, assume positions of power and influence in the military-industrial complex, and become exceedingly wealthy and powerful, yet retaining their Nazi philosophies, beliefs and associations. If this sounds "paranoid" or "stuck in the past", I'd ask you to research what has become of those we moved here as part of "Operation Paperclip" after WWII. Many of those who came here have been tied to the JFK assassination as well as to the apparent sabotaging of our early space and rocket programs. As they have moved into the upper echelons of the military-industrial-complex, they have become "untouchable", that is immune from government oversight or control. I think we unknowingly seeded a dangerous "second government" inside the security organizations that are beyond the control of Congress or the President. Of course there's much more, but I only mention this to highlight the roots of our current global economic problems.
Vast sums of money/capital have been moved from the global economy to M-I-C coffers, both as direct budget line item expenditures, and as "hidden" ("classified" and thus unaudited) expenses. These sums total trillions of dollars(starting from the 70s). What has happened to the money? How come the world hasn't seen significant technological developments on the scale of the first half of the 20th century, since about 1950-1960? We went from the Wright Brothers to the moon in about 50 years. And since then? You really think 747s and solid fuel rockets are as far as we can go?
Germany has become a convenient scapegoat, a diversion from what's been going on around us. Dithering over relatively mundane financial issues distracts the world's populace from asking the important questions.
Time to act!

reply to post by Alda1981

 

It's funny cause you didn't read my disclaimer.

It's funny cause after all the time passed since first aids for Greece were put into effect, there still hasn't been any improvement or restructuring whatsoever regarding your corrupt fiscal system - up until this very day.

It's funny cause you still point your finger at us, instead of at the traitors you empowered to sell your nation to the Troika and distribute the bailouts into the banksters (and their own) pockets, while the average greek had to suffer ill-considered austerity measures.

Actually it's not funny anymore. I'd suggest you quit the whining and put your own house in order first.

Here is your bailout policy mate.... I wonder why we can't do anything

reply to post by 2manyquestions

Thank you for your personal testimony about Germany, seems like you really hit the nail on the head.
And it's true, we had to rebuild our country from ruins twice after the world wars (we also started them both though, so no reason to complain here). As I mentioned in the opening-post, this thread is not about our past but the present - still a noteworthy remark.

reply to post by 00nunya00

Good to hear that people of German decent are not ashamed but rather proud of their line of ancestry.

I do not believe the German people would support the wholesale fleecing of Europe that the German leadership may or may not be engaged in at the moment [...]

and you're right about that too... just wait and watch the weather change.

reply to post by Slann

Good post and good assessment Slann.
We are still paying for the reintegration of former eastern Germany today though and the process is not yet completed. It takes a huge amount of time (and resources) to close the gap of a former socialist state.

reply to post by Alda1981

Originally posted by Alda1981
Here is your bailout policy mate.... I wonder why we can't do anything

Still off-topic.
The meme you posted (while it is true) has nothing to do with my remark about the necessary structural reforms Greece needs.
Your government wouldn't need any bailouts for those reforms, in fact you would gain money/reduce expenses.
If your government doesn't do their job... kick them out and get a serious government that does.

I didnt read of any of the thread but Germans= NAZIs .... eeeechk!

coming to here from over there -> www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also I hail from germanys pessimistic little brother (aka Austria)

All these things aren't inherent to "german character". There are reasons for it.
Good work ethics?
A number of workers (Depending on the size of the business) do nothing at all, except sitting at board meetings. Does the fact that a worker can go to those guys, and tell them what to tell the board improve morale in the workforce? Erm.... duh?

Clean streets and nice buildings? First of all germany is a bit crummy compared to austria, and austria is pretty crummy compared to switzerland. Switzerland is really crummy compared to Liechtenstein. There seems to be a corellation to tax revenue. Strict building codes propably help too. More wealth skimmed from the top and pushed back in the bottom also makes it easier for people to maintain nice dwellings.

Small businesses? A german SME would be an austrian powerhouse. There is also the legacy of Walter Eucken, an ordoliberal who realized that the "free" in "free market" didn't mean free from regulation but free from overwhelming power on any side of the negotiation table. And it's the task of the government to prevent powercenters from establishing themselves in the market place.

There were some excellent ideas in this area of the world, but they work because they are axcellent ideas, not because of some inherent characterstic in germans (or austrians).

reply to post by narwahl

No need to be pessimistic, little brother

I get your point about ordoliberalism, humane economics and subsequently social market economy (I personally admire Wilhelm Röpke and his ideas alot), but I don't understand your rejection of our cultural characterstics in central europe (not necessarily exclusively german) which clearly enabled us to develop said systems.

Take a look around us... these traits are pretty unique to us in comparison to the rest of the world.