Debunking the Real Delegate Count Website:

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

It's simply the truth. Federal Law trumps state laws when it comes to this issue. So it doesn't matter what states have on the books, if the law states that all delegates are unbound, then they are, and there's no penalty for changing your delegate vote at the convention.

A federal law requiring delegates to not be bound is a big government mandate and you would think Ron Paul would be out flashing this rule all over his conventions if this was interpreted right. I don't even see it on the official Paul website.

And all delegates have to follow state rules too, which are awarded based on the popular vote. Did you even read my thread? Look closely at the calculations. That's how delegates are awarded based on state levels.

Funny how libertarians cannot even see libertarian laws in place; leaves it up to the states!

reply to post by jjf3rd77


There was no insult there. I asked you a question.

I also didn't curse. I left you a nice lil hash mark to describe my level of frustration with how obtuse you are.

You haven't proved anything wrong.

What you have done is wasted entirely too much time trying to prove a moot point.
You debunked your own thread on the 2nd post.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Why are you talking to me like I'm some sort of Ron Paul Supporter?

I'm simply stating, as fact, that all delegates are unbound. I don't care about libertarians in this case or the law, I'm simply stating was is TRUE in the law right here, right now.

The Federal Law trumps the state one. Is that so hard to understand?

The state rules are a moot point, considering the Federal Law listed on the previous page. It superceeds ALL state laws regarding convention delegates.

It's really not that hard to understand.

Do you agree that the Federal Law trumps the state one? Factually speaking I mean, not opinion wise.

~Tenth

Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

You debunked your own thread on the 2nd post.

Have you read the state laws? Have you looked at how each delegate is awarded based on calculations from the popular vote?

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Originally posted by freakjive
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

You debunked your own thread on the 2nd post.

Have you read the state laws? Have you looked at how each delegate is awarded based on calculations from the popular vote?

Are you really carrying on this argument with me at the same time that tenth is schooling you on the facts???

What don't you understand about MOOT POINT???

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

The state rules are a moot point, considering the Federal Law listed on the previous page. It superceeds ALL state laws regarding convention delegates.

So how they have been awarded based on the popular vote doesn't matter? You are essentially telling me, that my vote doesn't matter, the delegates get to pick everyone!

Delegates are awarded on a state to state basis. That is how it works. That is how it has always worked. That is how it will work in tampa. Because the states will and most have already decided what delegates are going to tampa.

When do you think they decide which delegates to send to tampa?

Originally posted by freakjive

Are you really carrying on this argument with me at the same time that tenth is schooling you on the facts???

Yes, because you are not answering my questions!

reply to post by freakjive


It has been pointed out numerous times now that Rule 38 only pertains to the unit rule. Note how is specifies the unit rule right in the rule. The unit rule is where all the delegates of a state vote for the delegate that the majority of the delegates support. In other words they vote as a unit. The delegates are not bound based on who the delegates support. They are bound based on the votes in the primary. So Rule 38 is inconsequential. Furthermore, it is impossible for the unit rule to come into effect since every state has unbound delegates.

While it is indeed true that no delegate is actually bound to vote for any specific person at the convention, Mitt Romney will certainly get more than the 1,191 required in the first round. I have no doubt that Ron Paul will get a few, maybe a couple hundred. To clarify, while they are indeed unbound, the delegates will be chosen to vote a certain way. A Ron Paul delegate will be elected at the state convention to vote for Ron Paul, and that person will do so. Same with Romney. Same with Gingrich. Same with Santorum. Guess who has more delegates. These are not strangers, they are people that are guaranteed to vote the way they are supposed to.

Further, any candidate can barter their delegates for whatever reason, usually a prime speaking spot. These delegates can still vote however they choose, but at that point it does not matter. The candidate has basically chosen to take the speaking time and discontinue their pursuit of the nomination. This is what Ron Paul will do at the National Convention.

In 2008, Ron Paul received 22 delegate votes, beating Mitt Romney, who received 2. McCain, however, received over 2,000 delegate votes.

Personally, there is a twisted part of me that would love to see Ron Paul somehow get the nomination. Not because I would ever want him as President, but just to see how bad he would get pummeled in November. Obama gets 95% of the moderate vote versus Paul, who is way too extreme. The moderate vote decides elections.

For instance California State Law clearly states: Each delegate to the Republican National Convention shall use his or her best efforts at the convention for the party's presidential nominee candidate from California to whom the delegate has pledged support until the person is nominated for the office of President of the United States by the convention, receives less than 10 percent of the votes for nomination by the convention, releases the delegate from his or her obligation, or until two convention nominating ballots have been taken. Thereafter, each delegate shall be free to vote as he or she chooses.... [
California Elections Code Section 6461.(c) www.thegreenpapers.com...

IDK maybe you'll believe something linked to the daily paul.
www.dailypaul.com...

So, Ron Paul will not ever get delegates from MItt Romney in CA! If Paul had won any delegates in CA, he would almost had to have unbound them because he barely made 10% of the popular vote.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by freakjive

 

So Rule 38 is inconsequential. Furthermore, it is impossible for the unit rule to come into effect since every state has unbound delegates.

YES! every state has just the number of unbound delegates to fall under the limitations of Rule 38!

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

The state rules are a moot point, considering the Federal Law listed on the previous page. It superceeds ALL state laws regarding convention delegates.

So how they have been awarded based on the popular vote doesn't matter? You are essentially telling me, that my vote doesn't matter, the delegates get to pick everyone!

Delegates are awarded on a state to state basis. That is how it works. That is how it has always worked. That is how it will work in tampa. Because the states will and most have already decided what delegates are going to tampa.

When do you think they decide which delegates to send to tampa?

YES I am saying your vote does not count, cause the popular vote NEVER mattered in the general election.

It's always been the electoral college, ie the delegates that choose who becomes president.

Did you honestly think that the popular vote mattered? Just because the guy who gets the popular vote just happens to be the one that also receives the most delegates does not mean the two are fundementally connected.

~Tenth

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy

In 2008, Ron Paul received 22 delegate votes, beating Mitt Romney, who received 2. McCain, however, received over 2,000 delegate votes.

, but just to see how bad he would get pummeled in November. Obama gets 95% of the moderate vote versus Paul, who is way too extreme. The moderate vote decides elections.

Actually, the reason Romney is doing so well this time around is because of name recognition which is exactly why, Ron Paul did so well in 2008. He joined the republicans! He also helped empower the tea party after he dropped out.

Right now, Mitt Romney is enjoying similar name recognition. Your analysis on a Paul Obama battle is correct. I know plenty of republicans who would never vote for Paul!

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Did you honestly think that the popular vote mattered? Just because the guy who gets the popular vote just happens to be the one that also receives the most delegates does not mean the two are fundementally connected.

~Tenth

Yes they are! What reason would the Greenpapers an independent organization have for lying?

Who do you think elects the delegates? When do you think the states decide to send these delegates to tampa?

Your conspiracy theory makes no sense and its a shame people are so easily misguided.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Your conspiracy theory makes no sense and its a shame people are so easily misguided.

Tenth is citing facts and schooling you on the process. You are the misguided one.

The only conspiracy here is your ridiculous contention that you know what you're talking about.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


You keep thinking that the popular vote matters and that the electoral college system isn't a big giant scam that is used to elect however will keep the status quo.

That's just fine.

In the meantime, those who have been around long enough, and seen enough elections know the difference.

In the end; the electoral college makes the decision during the general election. The nomination process via delegates at the national conventions an entirely different process that IMO isn't nearly as corrupt.

Just look at super delegates during the general election, you consider that fair and balanced that some people have more votes than others?

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Just look at super delegates during the general election, you consider that fair and balanced that some people have more votes than others?

~Tenth

Since when are elections fair? There are losers and winners. You don't get equal votes! Facepalm!


Do you know why superdelegates have more votes than others? It depends on how and when the state conventions are. It depends on how many people voted in the state and how many delegates were awarded based on the popular vote.

For Republicans, in 2012, there are potentially 3 superdelegates in each state, consisting of the state chairman and two RNC committee members. However, certain states either have no superdelegates or have them but their votes are bound by the results of the state vote. In 2012, there are 126 Republican superdelegates. en.wikipedia.org...

Your conspiracy theory about the superdelegate fails! Next

reply to post by jjf3rd77


You whole argument is moot.
The facts are:
1.The GOP rules for the 2012 national convention over rule state rules.
2. Ever state had state GOP representives vote, to accept and adopt those rules IN 2008.
3. Rules 25 through 42 were accepted and adopted IN 2008 by every states GOP representive, and will be according to rule 42 , in full affect in the 2012 GOP national convention, regardless of what the MSM says or anti Paul supporters claim.

And as far as superdelegates, you better check who the delegates selected for those positions.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Just look at super delegates during the general election, you consider that fair and balanced that some people have more votes than others?

~Tenth

Since when are elections fair? There are losers and winners. You don't get equal votes! Facepalm!


Do you know why superdelegates have more votes than others? It depends on how and when the state conventions are. It depends on how many people voted in the state and how many delegates were awarded based on the popular vote.

For Republicans, in 2012, there are potentially 3 superdelegates in each state, consisting of the state chairman and two RNC committee members. However, certain states either have no superdelegates or have them but their votes are bound by the results of the state vote. In 2012, there are 126 Republican superdelegates. en.wikipedia.org...

Your conspiracy theory about the superdelegate fails! Next

edit on 6-6-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no
reason given)

Actually what you wrote proves my point in the sense that the votes are not by popular vote they are delegates, some of which have more votes than others.

And yes silly, elections are supposed to be fair and everybody should have their say, not just the 1000 people who brown nosed the RNC Chair and DNC Chairs into getting spots.

You should really look into what you are saying, because the data you are gathering is really proving that the whole election process in the US is a sham as there are no consistent rules for Federal VS State elections, there are no balances or checks in place to make sure that not more votes are being awarded for silly reasons.

The general election should be based entirely on the popular vote, not by delegates, super delegates and the electoral college, which was a system devised way back in the day to prevent having everybody and their sister come to washington to choose the next president.

In this day and age, it's an obsolete system. Still in use ONLY to benefit those who want your country to remain the cesspool of slavery it has become.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Actually what you wrote proves my point in the sense that the votes are not by popular vote they are delegates, some of which have more votes than others.

~Tenth

No it doesn't! It just says that there are 126 superdelegates which may or may not be awarded by using the winner take all format. 126 votes do not control the election!

How do you think the state chooses these delegates then, if it is not by popular vote?