I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

I noticed that my ultrasonic unit (the smaller of Harborfreight models) imparts a bit of moldy-metallic smell and taste to the brew. Tried airing the unit by leaving it open for several hours on the central air vent, but it doesn't help much if any. It may be that the metal from the bowl is leaching into the liquid. Or maybe it is growing some mold inside.

In either case, it seems it would be desirable if one could use some thin glass bowl or something similar in the tub of the cleaner to isolate the metal and the rest of unit from the liquid. Has anyone experimented with that? Even if it didn't work, it would be useful to hear about it to help others avoid dead ends.

I have their bigger (2.5 liter) unit on order, hoping that the larger tub size and the higher power ultrasonic transceiver will make some solution to the above problem feasible.

Tarasco
reply to post by goeasy

 

Hi, goeasy....

Welcome....

I'm in Canada, too....Victoria, BC....

I bought this Ultrasonic Cleaner thru Amazon.ca and am quite happy with it....I live alone so the size is just right for me....

www.amazon.ca...=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1387764502&sr=8-4&keywords=optima+unisex- adult

At first I thought I overpaid for it but after watching other cheaper units in the thread fail quickly I decided it was quite ok....

I baby it by cooling it down for at least 1/2 hour after each 480 second (8 minute) cycle until the foam disappears....

I've been purchasing my Ascorbic Acid and non-GMO Soy Lecithin from Swanson....they have exemplary Quality Control but their Canadian shipping costs are rising with their courier service....

I tried their Non-GMO Sunflower Lecithin but had an allergic reaction to it....

www.swansonvitamins.com...

PureBulk in Oregon uses USPS/Canada Post thus avoiding the courier associated cross border fees....
And they have frequent sales....

I've been buying Ascorbic Acid and Glutathione from them with but one border issue which I attribute to the holiday rush....

purebulk.com...-9KSM

A Bulk Barn franchise has recently opened locally selling bulk Soy Lecithin Granules....I need to go back and check whether it's Non-GMO and compare prices....

Being as it's a franchise the focus will be more on the bottom line than quality control....so, watch out Tarasco....

Both Swanson and PureBulk depend on outspoken savvy clients so they are very quality conscious....

I have been re-reading the Brooks Bradley Protocol and am transitioning from Liposomal Ascorbic Acid to Liposomal Sodium Ascorbate....more bang for my buck it seems....

michaelmooney.net...

I now recover very quickly from ambient chemical exposures....much faster than ever before....I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Syndrome....

My Type 2 Diabetes is not all affected by this protocol....the latest (2 days ago) HbA1C blood test is as damn near close to normal as it was three months ago....(7.2)

My doctors are quite impressed....

The Hepatitis C enzymes are still quite high....even with the Liposomal Glutathione...I will be doing another blood test tomorrow for the enzymes....

(By the way....Glutathione is Sulphur based like garlic and frequently smells like it...the old country (Ukraine) folk ate raw garlic for health and they smelled like this stuff...I love the irony....full circle....)

Hope this helps....

Tarasco

PS...if you can, wait until the new year to do your cross border shopping....this holiday rush is complicating everything....

Thx!

reply to post by goeasy


I just read the Lecithin reviews on the Swanson site and with the numerous references to cold storage of lecithin to avoid rancidity and recalling Bulk Barn's open barrel of room temperature lecithin in the store and reminding myself that I'm going to all this trouble and expense to save my life I'm going to live with Swanson's shipping costs to Canada....

After my conversation with Swanson's Quality Control people (when my new shipment of their Non-GMO Soy Lecithin was noticeably different in colour and texture) wherein they told me that the appearance, colour, and texture of the lecithin may vary as they are continually sourcing the best quality Non-GMO Soy (and Sunflower) Lecithins I am confident that I can trust the Lecithin....

On the other hand, The Vitamin Shop here in Victoria

www.canadianvitaminshop.com...

Is now selling GMO Soy Lecithin from Natural Factors (based in Coquitlam, BC)....yes....Genetically Modified Organism...! And there is no indication on the label whether it's GMO or Non-GMO....!

Fortunately the manager told me about the GMO aspect...

naturalfactors.com...


I've used Natural Factors multi vitamin/mineral supplement for years....but now I worry about them quietly changing the formulation....I cannot afford to take these chances with my health....

So I've got to respect Swanson's commitment to Quality Control....and I'm definitely going to get over my kvetching about the shipping costs and go back to quality....

Tarasco

Tarasco
reply to post by goeasy

 

I just read the Lecithin reviews on the Swanson site and with the numerous references to cold storage of lecithin to avoid rancidity and recalling Bulk Barn's open barrel of room temperature lecithin in the store and reminding myself that I'm going to all this trouble and expense to save my life I'm going to live with Swanson's shipping costs to Canada....
Tarasco

I have used several containers of Swanson's non-GMO sunflower lecithin (powder). While it was fine, I then ran into the organic, mechanically extracted (others are chemically extracted via solvents) liquid sunflower lecithin which is even is better (here, 32 oz bottle is the most cost effective). It also has the most tolerable taste of all lecithins tried so far (soy & sunflower), I can drink it with plain water instead with apple cider or OJ others needed to cover unpleasant taste.

nightlight7
I noticed that my ultrasonic unit (the smaller of Harborfreight models) imparts a bit of moldy-metallic smell and taste to the brew. Tried airing the unit by leaving it open for several hours on the central air vent, but it doesn't help much if any. It may be that the metal from the bowl is leaching into the liquid. Or maybe it is growing some mold inside.

In either case, it seems it would be desirable if one could use some thin glass bowl or something similar in the tub of the cleaner to isolate the metal and the rest of unit from the liquid. Has anyone experimented with that? Even if it didn't work, it would be useful to hear about it to help others avoid dead ends.

I have their bigger (2.5 liter) unit on order, hoping that the larger tub size and the higher power ultrasonic transceiver will make some solution to the above problem feasible.

When you get a new ultrasonic cleaner, you have to make sure you run several cycles of water or milk in the cleaner because it will leach the metal into the liquid.

After about 5 runs of 20-30 minutes, then you can use to make the Lipo-C mix

dominicus
When you get a new ultrasonic cleaner, you have to make sure you run several cycles of water or milk in the cleaner because it will leach the metal into the liquid.

After about 5 runs of 20-30 minutes, then you can use to make the Lipo-C mix

I have been using it for several months, with a batch every few days (including experiments with other supplements, that turned to be duds), but still can taste & smell a bit of metallic whiff in the brew. I don't think it stops leaching since there are plenty of metal atoms to go, with each layer of metal atoms exactly the same as the previous one, hence it can't change whether it leaches or not. If it does it once, it will keep doing it until the metal is worn off and the hole created.

Glass would be ideal. I experimented with some thin water glasses and they seem to transmit the ultrasound fairly well (I was looking at specks of spices thrown into the water in and around the glass, they seemed equally active). But the water glass is not shaped right to take much liquid, 1 and 1/2 cups worth, while remaining fully in contact with the surrounding water that transmits the ultrasound into the glass. Some kind of right shaped bowl or flask that is also thin-walled would work, but I can't find the glassware that fits such requirements. Maybe the big unit will open more possibilities.

Ideally, if one can make the optimal liposomal unit, the tub itself should be made out of glass. Plus it should have a slow rotating glass propeller or paddle coming down from the lid to slowly stir it. The whole tub & the propeller assembly should be removable for easy dish-washing.

reply to post by dominicus


I think I solved the problem of avoiding the metal contact with the Liposomal mix using the large ultrasonic unit (2.5 liters). I tested sonification in a clear plastic container (those thin disposable ones of hard plastic with lids, used for nuts, feta cheese, hummus, etc). It is two cups size in in volume. I place it in the middle of the larger (2.5 liter) tub and made sure that the water outside the plastic container is at the same level as that of the lecithin+C mixture inside (the usual 1.5 cups).

The wavelength of ultrasound at 42 KHz in water (1500 m/s speed of sound) is ~35 mm (~1.5 inches), which much larger than the thickness of the container walls, hence the wave should go right through. Indeed, experiments with water around and in the plastic container showed the same standing wave pattern on the respective surfaces and the same degree of warming of the liquids. Hence, the ultrasonic energy is transferring without much loss.

I did notice that the full process took somewhat longer than for bare tub (one more 8 minute cycle, on top of the 4) to create the fully uniform milky liquid with no foam. I think that this process prolongation is due to slower heating of the total liquid, which is in total, inside+outside of the plastic container, more than double in volume compared to the bare tub process.

But the resulting potion was completely free of any metallic or other odd tastes and smells (which I could detect in all bare tub batches). The resulting potion had full energizing & well-being effects of the bare tub process. The pouring didn't require intermediate step of using a larger dish, since the plastic container pours cleanly into the mason jar. The cleanup is also a lot easier since the plastic container goes into dishwasher, while the ultrasonic cleaner doesn't need anything but pouring out the plain water.

I think this is altogether a much nicer, cleaner and perhaps healthier method (no more worry about nickel getting into the brew). With bare tub, there is also a potential problem of Vitamin C losing its electrons to the metal tub (the usual advice for Vitamin C is not to use metal containers for storage or metal spoons for stirring). With plastic container that potential problem is eliminated.

Note that small ultrasonic unit with its 2 cup tub may require hunting for the right kind of plastic container that fills up the tub so that 1.5 cups of the brew will still remain under the high-water mark (in order for the water in the tub surrounding the container can reach near the top of the liquid inside to assure full ultrasound energy transmission). With the big unit, anything of 2 cup size fits easily in the middle.

reply to post by nightlight7


You might want to rethink using plastic with the acidic Vit C and ultrasonic vibrating....for my part I would be leery of plastic molecules migrating into the solution....

I am Multiple Chemical Sensitive and am very aware of chemical contamination in my diet/environment....

As I recall from memory (!) these plastic molecules can play havoc with our endocrine systems....

But...to heck with memory lets Google....This link refers specifically to BPA but I like to give myself the benefit of the doubt....

www.motherearthnews.com...

When it comes to consumables I prefer to use relatively inert materials like glass and ceramic....

Best regards,

And a Happy, Healthy New Year....

Tarasco

(By the way....is it possible that you received a 'Refurbished' unit that had been returned in a contaminated condition from a previous purchaser...?

My Optimus Ultrasonic Cleaner from Amazon.ca purchased six months ago never had any issues with odour or contamination...)

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388628956&sr=8-1&keywords=optima+420+profes sional+ultrasonic+watch+and+jewelry+cleaner

PS...I'd be happy to lend you the propeller from my beanie....

I agree. Food grade plastic certifications are regulated with very poor standards. These plastics can leach out a large part of their volume under the right conditions. It is not just the hydrocarbons you have to worry about. There are also release agents and other additives and since that is all trade secret stuff, you have no idea what you consuming.

Tarasco
You might want to rethink using plastic with the acidic Vit C and ultrasonic vibrating....for my part I would be leery of plastic molecules migrating into the solution....

Good point which prompted additional research. I checked the recycle code which is 1 -- the PET or PETE resin. It can leach estrogenic phtalates at higher temperatures (above Tg=67 C) which is way above the temperatures in the cleaner (which I keep 30-40 C max). I also don't use ascorbic acid but sodium ascorbate which is non-acidic. The PET is apparently "practically insoluble" in water. I didn't notice any degradation in water or extraneous tastes or smells from the resulting liquid, which I do from the metal tubs on both ultrasonic units.

I will try experimenting with glass on my next batch (in couple days). The ultrasound wavelength in water is ~35 mm, so any thin glass should be OK as well. It is mainly the container shape that is trickier with glass, since drinking glasses would raise the liquid level too high (above high water mark on the unit). It would need to be a thin and wider glass container than typical water glasses. Any idea for good source or example of such?

(By the way....is it possible that you received a 'Refurbished' unit that had been returned in a contaminated condition from a previous purchaser...?

I have two units, small and large, both seemed new with clean unscratched surfaces and undamaged packaging materials, but one can't probably tell from that. But both leave metallic taste in the liquid that I can sense. The smaller unit was already used several months, without washing off the metallic taste. The big unit is new, but I did run it several cycles empty runs with water before using it for Liposomal C.

reply to post by nightlight7


I tracked down this post in the lip-c thread...hope it helps....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tarasco

Tarasco
I tracked down this post in the lip-c thread...hope it helps....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Tarasco

Thanks. The only mystery is what kind of glass tub/container was that. It also seemed a bit on the thick side. In the meantime, I researched more plastic containers and surveyed stuff at my home. I found one that seems just right, the hard, clear plastic box for Ferrero Rocher chocolates. It has resin ID 6, which is polystyrene (non-foam form), a highly inert form of plastic for which the main concern is that it doesn't degrade for hundreds of years. Although container walls of the chocolate box are thicker than the earlier ones (nuts container from resin #1, which breaks down into phtalates which are endocrine disruptors), it seems to transmit ultrasound at least as well (judging by the rise in water temperature). As with earlier plastic, I couldn't detect any odd tastes in the resulting brew. With the bare metal tubs, I pick a bit of foreign taste that I didn't like.

Another question, whatever happened to those pioneers here? Any of them still alive after a year+ of self-experimentation I would be curious to hear comments from someone using it for a bit longer than few months I have been so far.

reply to post by nightlight7


The container looks like my Glasslock tempered glass kitchen storage container....I very much like the thickness of the tempered glass....it's functional and long lasting and INERT

www.glasslockusa.com...

I just don't get why you want plastic so bad....especially when you are taking this Liposomal Vitamin C for health purposes....

Ultrasonic agitation of plastic molecules would be more appropriate in a test lab than in my diet....

I have been taking Liposomal Vit-C for six months and Liposomal Glutathione for about three months and the major thing is that my debilitating reactions to ambient chemical exposures has gone from weeks and months to hours and days....and my high glucose levels (Diabetes II) are slowly, steadily decreasing....

I'm taking the Glutathione on faith mostly as the results are pretty well invisible....it is a major anti-oxidant and especially helpful for diabetes related oxidative stress....

Tarasco
reply to post by nightlight7

 

The container looks like my Glasslock tempered glass kitchen storage container....I very much like the thickness of the tempered glass....it's functional and long lasting and INERT www.glasslockusa.com...

They have right shape and size, but the glass seems as thick as typical glass oven pans. The encapsulation efficiency and size of lipo-spheres is quite dependent on the power of ultrasonic beam through the mixture, hence diminishing either with that kind thick, heavy glass may not be the right tradeoff.

I just don't get why you want plastic so bad....especially when you are taking this Liposomal Vitamin C for health purposes....

I would prefer glass or porcelain, but can't find a thin walled container of the right size and shape. I have regular water or wine glasses that sonicate through quite well, but they have a wrong shape which doesn't allow 1.5-2 cups of liquid to fit under the water surface of the sonic unit (there is major drop in ultrasound power when transitioning to air).

I also prefer to have a more watery liquid (2 cups instead of 1.5 cups) since from research papers on liposomal techniques, the denser the liposomes (lecithin), the larger the lipo-spheres, and one would want them as small as possible (preferably most spheres at 150 nm or less) for direct cellular delivery. At 200 nm or larger spheres, the liver unpacks the lipo-spheres and then repacks the payload, at its own leisure and whim, into smaller vesicles (natural lipo-spheres) for the final cellular delivery, which reduces efficiency of the process.

The plastic container from resin #6 are currently my best compromise, being the most inert plastic out there. The bare metal tub is out due to detectable metallic taste I can feel (on both units I got so far).

Ideally, some company should start producing ultrasonic units optimized for making liposomal supplements at home, with removable dishwashable glass or porcelain tub, clean pouring spout, measuring lines on the sides of the tub, temperature control, automated stirring, single shot sonification (rather then having to coma back and press button every few minutes), etc. I would buy one like that even if it were several times the cost of the jewelry cleaner units of the same power.

I have been taking Liposomal Vit-C for six months and Liposomal Glutathione for about three months and the major thing is that my debilitating reactions to ambient chemical exposures has gone from weeks and months to hours and days....and my high glucose levels (Diabetes II) are slowly, steadily decreasing....

While that's about twice as long as my experiment, what about those early explorers from the thread, with over a year of experience? Are they still alive and functioning?

I'm taking the Glutathione on faith mostly as the results are pretty well invisible....it is a major anti-oxidant and especially helpful for diabetes related oxidative stress....

edit on 1/3/2014 by Tarasco because: Clarity

I am looking forward to experiment with glutathione (still looking at different powders, which seem pricey). I have tried early on liposomal aloe gel (cut out the gel from the potted aloe at my home), which didn't do anything I could notice. Tried raw cocoa powder few times, and although it did improve taste and seemed to add a bit to the well-being effects, the liquid was quite sticky and developed strange smell after couple days in the fridge, so I gave up on that. Also tried and will keep making Liposomal Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCAR), which is quite energizing and complements Liposomal C very well. Tried also PEA, but abandoned it since it was too stimulating and distracting/intoxicating, plus it gave me hangovers. I plan also to try caffeine, magnesium ascorbate, creatine, L-tyrosine, and few other supplements or nootropics I use.

reply to post by Tarasco


Laboratory beakers...! www.utahbiodieselsupply.com...

Thin-walled borosilicate glassware....

I recall some years ago purchasing some lab gear from the local university chemistry dept....they had a door front little shop to buy stuff...no questions about whether I was a student any longer....

I confess that I will soon be ordering a Cambro (food safe, NSF Approved) 6 litre (6 quart) polycarbonate container for brining and/or marinating meat and chicken....

www.cambro.com...

www.nsf.org...

I feel confident about this....just salt and marinades (vinegar!)

I pay for the glutathione because it's necessary....I get it from PureBulk in Oregon....

I, too, am experimenting with Nootropics....but am having better luck with B Vitamins that are designed to cross the blood-brain barrier....like Picamilon (Niacin and GABA) and Sulbutiamine (Thiamine-disulfide(?)-Thiamine) and hopefully Pyritinol (Piridoxine/B6-disulfide-Pyridoxine) if I can figure out who I bought it from...there have been major issues with a supplier...!

It's a temptation to think about Liposoming these....but if they are crossing the BBB then it may be moot....

I take 1gm ALCAR 2X per day in water...how much do you take and do you notice any difference in the Liposomal version...?

Remember that you want only to liposome water soluble substances....I think chocolate is fat/lipid soluble....you are encapsulating water dissolved substances in lipids (lecithin)....

I believe we may be going against the ATS rules by going off topic in this Liposomal Vit C thread...and all this could very well be removed....hope not, though

Tarasco
Laboratory beakers...! www.utahbiodieselsupply.com...
Thin-walled borosilicate glassware....

Thanks, that's getting closer. I was also going to look for glass jars in the supermarket, pick the shape & thickness, get it then eat, drink or dump whatever is inside (or my wife or kids might like the content) and try the jar. That seems the least expensive, comes in variety of shapes and size plus many seem to have fairly thin glass (to lower the packaging costs I suppose).

I pay for the glutathione because it's necessary....I get it from PureBulk in Oregon....

Do you make it liposomal or just use raw powder?

I, too, am experimenting with Nootropics....but am having better luck with B Vitamins that are designed to cross the blood-brain barrier....like Picamilon (Niacin and GABA) and Sulbutiamine (Thiamine-disulfide(?)-Thiamine) and hopefully Pyritinol (Piridoxine/B6-disulfide-Pyridoxine) if I can figure out who I bought it from...there have been major issues with a supplier...!

Is that all from pure bulk or some other place? I would like to try B vitamins, especially b12 and b6, but can't find pure powders.

I take 1gm ALCAR 2X per day in water...how much do you take and do you notice any difference in the Liposomal version...?

With 1.5 cups (12 oz) I add 15 g of ALCAR (pure powder without fillers) and 30 g (2 scoops) of Swanson's sunflower lecithin powder, so I probably get about ~1 gram of encapsulated ALCAR per oz. Since it is slightly sour, I add 1-2 tablespoons of the liposomal potion (1/2 - 1 oz) into a cup of regular tea to drink couple times a day.

The immediate effect feels like amplified well-being effect of Liposomal C, sometimes even with distracting intensity like ASMR (I sip tea or coffee while I program on computer so I need to focus on my work and distraction even if pleasant isn't welcome). Definite energy boost, like regular ALCAR, plus the unique ASMR-like well being sensations that I never get from the ALCAR capsules.

Tip for experimenters: I don't mix ALCAR in the vitamin C brew, it is its own separate potion. From experiments, I also found out that liquid lecithin I prefer for Liposomal C doesn't work with ALCAR, making the mix completely lump up at some point during sonification. But the Swanson's sunflower lecithin works just fine with ALCAR and the resulting brew looks just like the Liposomal C variant. In summary, the Liposomal ALCAR is a definite keeper for me.

Remember that you want only to liposome water soluble substances....I think chocolate is fat/lipid soluble....you are encapsulating water dissolved substances in lipids (lecithin)....

With cocoa, I first stirred into paste-like mix couple heaping teaspoons of raw cooking cocoa powder in 1/4 cup of boiling water, then added that mix to lecithin into blender with 3/4 cup of cold water, resulting in 1 cup of lukewarm, uniform mix. The final liposomal brew was very dense, more than heavy cream, close to yogurt texture. The cocoa improved taste, made it drinkable all by itself, although I didn't like the texture (it gave me a gag reflex) and I couldn't quite pinpoint the full effects (sometimes it seemed slightly improved, sometimes not). After couple days in the fridge it also developed an odd smell, which was another turnoff. So I dropped that variant after the initial experiments.

I believe we may be going against the ATS rules by going off topic in this Liposomal Vit C thread...and all this could very well be removed....hope not, though

I think we're still within the realm of variations and experiments with the basic recipe.

Can anyone give me info on bowel cancer and liposomal v c ?
I make it myself and have read lots of pages in this thread.

I`ll search through the thread to see if there`s any mention on it but if anyone can share any information on bowel cancer, I`d be grateful as my friend has just been diagnosed.

I just made my first batch of Liposomal C. I'll let you know how it does.

reply to post by lambros56


There is this...

Vitamin C as a Natural Cancer Treatment

Chris Beat Cancer . com

Oral megadoses of vitamin C and cancer

reply to post by toastyr





Thanks.
I'll check through the links !