we christians/creationists must spread the word we believe in

reply to post by tmw93


Problem with christians preachin all this love, forgiving, equality, peace and wellbeing, is that it only counts if your a fellow christian or considered good enough to be a convert.

Right now here in Australia, there's somwhat of a S%#tstorm brewing over a incident on a local TV show, where the presenter of a street talk segment was making fun of a handicapped person and getting a laugh from the crowed around them.

A few church groups have come out swinging in defence of the Improvished, handicapped & homeless being bullied in a Mob type menta,ity within out community.

If this person had not been handicapped and had been, say "gay", for instance, would these church groups still be campaigning for a fair go for all..??

I say not..!!

Before christians start preaching the word of god and love to all mankind and before I will ever consider listening, they need to become truly neutral and fair to all mankind and not just a selective bunch of hypocrits..!!

There is no one standing between you and Jesus
The church should except all people
Are you saying being gay is like being handicapped?

reply to post by Luminaught

i often wonder if you self righteous holier than thou read any thing else other than passages of scripture that seem to fit,in your mind, your way of thinking. manipulating and twisting it,like a spin doctor,making all of the 'good book'
sound like it was written for your interpretation! get off the damn cross,we need the wood!!!

reply to post by Daemondoll

Out of context, it sounds like they are just talking about rape, doesn't it?

So, what goes on before it?

23 "If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

The Israelites were to teach their girls to cry out against someone who raped them--especially in the city, where people would hear it.

Outside of town, where the girl wouldn't be heard, and to cry out was to take a beating at the hands of a rapist without hope of being found?

25 "But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 "When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.

Rape is the same as murder. Hrm.

28 "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

This is the value that was placed on virginity in a marriage--that if you took the value that men were looking for (chastity, proving lineage) then you were forced to pay for what you "stole". And don't for a moment think that some girl out there, knowing that she can have the husband she wants, wouldn't instigate this. But yeah, this is still squeamish to modern thinking, because rape could still be covered by this. Deuteronomy 22:13-30 is whole context.

So, are there any other verses about this law? Exodus 22:16-17

16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. 17 "If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.

Same set-up, but more explanation on the part of the father in charge of the girl. You pay the fine, and the father doesn't have to make the girl marry you.

So, killing people for rape had to do with violating marriage, but other types of rape (if it is), where the woman is not bound, were paid by fee, and you may not get to keep her, if the father is sane. Knowing my own father? He'd take them money, refuse the marriage, then find the guy in private.

There is a chance that a father could force the daughter to marry a man who raped her. But then, just like it was until modern times, you could be forced to marry any man, by your father. Laws do not cover every single angle out there--think, there were less laws in the first 5 books than most TOWNS have today--and a good bit of them were on mold abatement, of all things. No way in the world something that simplified could cover every contingency. (Which is why the Jews were in the habit of looking to the Rabbis to expound on the gaps. We'd have to look at old texts outside the Bible or Torah to see if fathers were in the habit of keeping provably raped daughters from this type of marriage. Until then, all is conjecture.)

~~~~
Oh, and not all betrothals were talked about publicly, so a guy couldn't guarantee that he did not take an unbetrothed virgin.

Looking at Joseph and Mary, Joseph was going to "privately divorce his betrothed" so that he did not have to take her to the town's elders for being pregnant, but not by him. It would have given his father-in-law time to press charges against the "man who raped Mary". He didn't want her stoned, although he could have taken her to the Elders for that--and he was called a righteous man for this. (This is about the verses that I didn't quote.)

reply to post by luciddream

Simple. If you believe the house is on fire, and you don't wake the others who are in the house to get them out, what does this make you? "oh, I'm just going to mosey out side and sit here, watching the house burn! I hope they sleep through it all!" ~ We'd think they were nuts.

But what if the house wasn't on fire? We'd still think they were nuts, but I'd be pretty pissed if I found them on the lawn, waiting for the house to burn down while I slept inside. At the very least it would be," Why didn't you wake me? At the very least, I could have taken you through the house to show you that it wasn't on fire."

In context, you have a group of people who think that there's something bad at the end of the tunnel, and if they love humanity, they're going to do everything in their power to make sure that people don't go to find out what it is. And because not everyone sees this fire (irrelevant of right/wrong), they're not going to be thanked for it. Some people prefer to "sleep".

we christians/creationists must spread the word we believe in

It would appear that many people don’t know much about Christianity. The funny thing about the Jewish and Islamic faith does not believe that Jesus was one with God, a prophet not a Christ. Those two religions have more in common with each other than Christianity when it comes to Christ. Christians believe that Jesus came with the update so when you see many of the old archaic laws of the Old Testament they don’t necessarily apply when compared against the teachings of Christ.However, some Old Testament laws are set in stone. If you don’t know much about it, look at the first part of the New Testament first and see how the teachings of Jesus applies to your problems in life. The Old Testament is a record of our history, but as a slowly advancing species, we need updated and points clarified as we continue our journeys.

Originally posted by redneck13
There is no one standing between you and Jesus
The church should except all people
Are you saying being gay is like being handicapped?

No I am not saying being gay is like being handicapped.

What I am saying is that the gay community is often persecuted by the curch.

Church groups will rush to defend the handicapped on an issue such as socially accepted bullying on a local tv show, but they would never jump to the defence of a gay person undergoing the same treatment. In their eyes, a gay person is a sinner and going to hell, not deserving of help, even shunned..

Unfortunately, as well meaning as the church often is, there are areas where they themselves are just as guilty of being intolerant.

Before the church can truly claim to be doing the work of god, before they can claim to be truly loving towards all, they need to look at everyone (with no acceptions), in the same light. Weather it is a handicapped person, a gay person, a murderer, a rapist, communist, muslim, black, white, yellow, red, etc, etc..

Equality can not be for just one, it must be for all..!!

In a truly benoviolent and equel sociaty, there should be no discrimination. In a truly benoviolent and equel religion, there can also be no persecution.

You cannot rush to the aid of one group, only to ingore the needs of another.

reply to post by Ironclad


I absolutely agree with that statement. If a church thinks it’s bad to be gay, they should want gay people in the church. Reluctance to do so is a human condition not spiritual. The travesty and consequence is that alternative lifestyle people are pushed away from religion at the hands of those that are supposed to be professing faith, its just wrong. In all fairness there are churches out there that except people for who they are

While you all are spreading the word be sure to talk about the times of Abraham when he lived in the City of Ur and made his compact with the Creator god, who happened to live there too and was named Anu.

Explain how Abraham's god in Ur was the top god for a panteon of other gods, making him the supreme god. The start of the monotheistic god.

Then tell us why Moses came to chose a wife in Midian that links all the way back to Ur.

Abraham's god happens to be Islam's god also.

And they explain why you think Jesus suddenly became Anu.


After you words crumble before your lips, then you find what you believe misleads the world.

reply to post by Luminaught


cool poem. i like!
but what i liked most was your link to be an instant 'minister'!!!
i'm going for it!!!
soon i will be an ordained a$$h07e!!!!
soon i will have the authority to speak of this man made religion called christianity!
one of the courses they offer is to be a prophet!!! i like the sound of that!
so, watch out ATS members! i WILL be ordained!!!

reply to post by My_Reality

By all means...continue in your quest to save people. I will be there to rebuff your attempts because people don't need to be saved. They need to be set free.

Right


I'm going to ask all the prisons to let their rapists, murderers, child molesters who feel no need to be remorseful for their actions to be freed, into your neighborhood.

yes, live and let live, and you better stick by that motto.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Do not confuse Islam with Christianity
The Qumran created by Muhammad was created out of his own mind by what he remembered from the time he spent with the Jewish tribes in Medina.
At the time Mohammed was an idolater, he worshiped various deities one of which was the moon god Allah
Later parts of the Qumran were made up as Mohammed went across the land pillaging, plundering, raping, and murdering all by the commands of God via the lips of Mohammed. They may lay claim to being descended of Abraham as there were a number of Arabic Jews scattered across the Arabian peninsula at the time, but if you study Islam they in no way serve the same God that Christians do.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sbaden

 

There are times in history where paintings of Christ are loving and forgiving and other times where he is depicted as condemning and damning

What point about Jesus being God did you not understand? Did you buy into all that sh*t about him being a hippy with no judgements and no laws?