School is PRISON. A must see for all parents.

reply to post by BubbaJoe


In a local home education group the HEAD of the local public school brings his childen along to the meetings. That realy says something!!!

reply to post by VoidHawk


I didn't watch the video but want to inject my 2-cents anyway


Everything we need to know is learned in kindergarten.

Share
Play well with others
Tell the truth
Be kind
Mind your manners
Don't run with scissors
Finger painting is fun
Cookies are best enjoyed when dipped in milk

~End of story~

The educational system is a joke! The ONLY things worth learning are math and music (and trade schools). Most everything else is brainwashing and grooming you to become a full fledged member of the flock!

I'm a public education teacher, so recognize my bias.

I've watched this video. This man has a LOT of excellent points he makes.

Our school system is designed and run like a factory. Why? Long story, but this factory model was deemed the most efficient for teaching to the masses.

The problem with this approach is that children are individuals. They don't fit very well in a stagnant, controlled environment. Students learn differently and at different times. Some may learn best visually, others are auditory learners, still others need tactile and kinesthetic learning. The factory model doesn't really take these differences into consideration.

The solution? First of all, lower class size. Its very difficult to reach individuals when you have 30 students in a class, all needing individual attention. In smaller classes, teachers can focus more on individual students.

Next, we've got to give our students time to be chidlren. I get so angry when I see a first grade classroom where the kids are forced to sit for an hour at a time. That's not natural, no wonder the kids have behavior problems. There should be multiple "breaks" built into the day that allows students a chance to physically burn off energy. Recess is great, but these breaks need to be in addition to recess.

Students should have more say in what they want to learn. This doesn't mean they get to decide the curriculum; that needs to be left to the professionals. However, students are quite capable of choosing the focus of the lesson. For example, we teach transportation in first grade. That's a very broad subject. So I asked my students what they wanted to learn about transportation. Their answer? Airplanes and the Titanic. So that was our focus. The kids were a lot more alert b/c they chose what to study. Great experience.

More to come...

reply to post by smyleegrl


HI.
Nice to have some input from someone working within the system

children are individuals.

Thats hitting the nail square on the head.

More to come...

School is meant to keep the children of the peasants dumbed down, break up the strong family unit, extend childhood until their creative spark is extinguished they never never want you to question or critically think about anything.
It has also turned into a heck of a moneymaker. We are spending more than ever per child to educate and look how unprepared for the world the graduates are. Life is not multiple choice.


Do you really think it takes 12 (16 with no child left behind) years to teach someone to read, write, understand mathematics or follow the sciences? No they want to keep you from making the world a better place and most inovations are created by people under 30.

Originally posted by nvprose1
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

Ever hear of Dr. Robert Titzer, he developed the "Your Baby Can Read" early learning system,
he started his daughter on it, smart girl, she was a junior in College at age 16, or something like
that...

my son is two now and can read plenty of words...
its a real trip...

I want to post this in case anyone is wondering.. I have a baby right now and she is like 3 months old.. so I searched this on google and the 4th or 5th link on the search is this..

Complaint filed to FTC over ‘Your Baby Can Read’

Apparently this isn't exactly as they state.. a bit from the link above..

Last year, an NBC News investigation that aired on TODAY found that child development experts from coast to coast were of the collective opinion that while young children can be made to recognize or memorize words, the brains of most infants and toddlers are just not developed enough to actually learn to read at the level the way the enticing television ads claim they can.

It's deceptive, and it's really harmful. Parents are shelling out all this money for something that is basically snakeoil,” said Susan Linn, executive director of the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood. "We were just so pleased that the TODAY show took this on. It's the first expose we've seen about this product."

I was kinda curious about this so i searched it.. Nothing else but I want to bring this to peoples attention..

And the best way to teach a kids is be involved in their lives and let read to them and count.. You don't need fancy prgms like this to help you..

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Do you really think it takes 12 (16 with no child left behind) years to teach someone to read, write, understand mathematics or follow the sciences? No they want to keep you from making the world a better place and most inovations are created by people under 30.]

I'm sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine and I have to address it. It's a misconception a lot of people have about the teaching profession, and I would like to explain this further.

I dont want this to turn into a college syllabus, so I'll be brief

Let's start with the basics, educational, social, and physical development. Teachers need to know how learning occurs, how the brain develops, and the different stages of learning. Otherwise you expose students to complex concepts before the child is ready. This can cause problems.

Next, teachers have to understand pedagogy for the different subject areas. In other words, how do you teach someone to read? To comprehend that passage and apply it to real life. Or how to manipulate the base ten system in math. There's more but you get the point.

So now that you've learned the above, it's time to write lesson plans. Each plan must include at least three different learning styles, consist of higher-order thinking skills (Bloom's Taxonomy), and differentiate between the skill levels of the students.

Now add to all of that the home life of your students. Some are abused or neglected. Some are homeless. Some have learning problems, language delays, sensory processing issues, etc.

Put all this together in one classroom, thirty kids.

That's the reality of the teaching profession. So, yes. It does require a college degree, preferably s master's.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Do you really think it takes 12 (16 with no child left behind) years to teach someone to read, write, understand mathematics or follow the sciences? No they want to keep you from making the world a better place and most inovations are created by people under 30.]

I'm sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine and I have to address it.

Put all this together in one classroom, thirty kids.

smyleegrl. Have you considered TPTB know how difficult it is when you have a class of thirty kids?
If they realy want this world to be a better place then good quality education is the place to start imo and you cant get that with a ratio of 1/30.

I think you and VforVendettea are both correct. You are right to say how dificult it is with thirty kids but I think VforVendettea is correct to say it doesnt take that long to teach a child. I know several families who home school and their kids are miles ahead of those in the public school system. I know a three year old who can read & count, he knows all about the solar system and can name all the planets, he knows the names of all the sea shells he finds on the sea shore and he can log on to the internet. When his mother cooks he weighs the ingredients for her, etc etc. These things are quite normal for home schooled children where its 1/1.

Whats your own view on home schooling?

reply to post by VoidHawk


If the parents are truly committed, then home schooling is the way to go. Absolutely.

I understand the idea that all the obstacles in public education are there on purpose. True or not? I don't know. It would have to be a small group of people and absolutely secret. I've been part of county, district, and state meetings where we address the issues and attempt to solve them. I can assure you the people in those meetings are sincere in their desire to improve education.

Charter schools are another idea for parents to consider. Research is rather vague at the moment, but personally I think charter schools are something to consider.

Another integral part of education is the parents. If the parents could care less about education, that attitude hinders their child. I've worked with lots of parents who simply didn't value education. They would not help the child with homework, attend parent teacher conferences, etc.
Lots of possible reasons for this, but I think apathy is a huge part of it.

Gotta stop my lecture now.... time to get ready for a workshop on math pedagogy.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Whats your own view on home schooling?

My views i can give you are as follows..

My wife's kid is 20 he was home/cyber schooled and he is fine.. I can read white and so on.. Not much street smarts but meh...

Prior to this I have heard in some instances where home schooled kids have been winning spelling bee's and so on.. Plus as I said above I think the most important thing is to be there for the kid and make sure it is doing the work its supposed to.. Don't let it slack and screw off because its just the same thing as reg school.. Just because they goto school doesn't mean they learn anything... There are kids in public school who cant read and write.. So it has the same thing as homeschooling...

But we are thinking about homeschooling our kid because the school system where we live is the worst in the state for test scores...

@ smyleegrl

I gave you a star cause you said the same thing I did..

Originally posted by ThichHeaded

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Whats your own view on home schooling?

My views i can give you are as follows..

My wife's kid is 20 he was home/cyber schooled and he is fine.. I can read white and so on.. Not much street smarts but meh...

Prior to this I have heard in some instances where home schooled kids have been winning spelling bee's and so on.. Plus as I said above I think the most important thing is to be there for the kid and make sure it is doing the work its supposed to.. Don't let it slack and screw off because its just the same thing as reg school.. Just because they goto school doesn't mean they learn anything... There are kids in public school who cant read and write.. So it has the same thing as homeschooling...

But we are thinking about homeschooling our kid because the school system where we live is the worst in the state for test scores...

@ smyleegrl

I gave you a star cause you said the same thing I did..

edit on 6/1/2012 by ThichHeaded because: (no reason given)

If you are truly dedicated to your child's education (and it sounds like you most definetly are) then home schooling is an excellent option.

In public schools, lessons are pitched to the "middle" or average student. Which means the above average student isn't really challenged. Now this is a broad generalization, but we're speaking in generalities.

If possible, check and see if your county offers home school meetings for parents and students. Our county does; its a chance for parents to ask questions and a chance for the students to intermingle. This is kinda new, so may not be available in every area.

Good luck on your venture, and much success to you! If I can help in anyway, please just let me know.

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
I used to run my own machine shop at one time, I hired a home schooled kid. His parents were super religious zealots. The kid was an idiot, couldn't do math, couldn't do spelling, and damn sure couldn't do thinking. What an f,'ing joke, uneducated parents homeschooling their kids.

You dno't see educated people homeschooling their kids, you see stay at home moms doing it. Serious WTF?

edit on 5/30/2012 by BubbaJoe because: (no reason given)

LOL what a broad sweeping statement.
In these parts, metro-Detroit, most of the hs families I know have college educated parents and many who are teachers who know the system first hand.
I know a University teacher and her husband, the vp of the same Uni, homeschooling their kids. Oh and wait for it, said couple Unschools Their Kids.

YES.

i started skipping school around 7th grade (i wanted to study the occult and meditate in the woods), and got charged with truancy many times.
Of course, me being a free spirit, i still kept doing it throughout 8th,9th,10th,11th grade.

i cant even remember how many times i was locked up for not going to school. (they put me in a cold, white room in the juvenile center from 7am-5pm)
I found it funny how other kids used drugs and vandalized everything and no one cared, yet me, the kid who didn't bother anyone was locked up in a cell for not going to school.

and its not like i fell behind, i was in the honor roll and managed to keep all my A's in every class, yet i was still frowned upon by the system.

They sent me into a group home for about 2 months to try to punish me because they thought my mom wasn't doing her job.(amazing experience btw, met alot of eccentric characters)

of course by the time i was in 12th grade, i had alot of issues, i was extremely insecure, had horrible self-esteem and was really stressed. I was diagnosed with depression and had to take meds, (though i didnt because i disliked the "forced happiness") i honestly hated living in this world and wanted to leave, so i dropped out of school and locked myself in my room for a few months. I didnt talk to anyone and i didnt do anything but think.

Recently, i've started to come out of my shell again now that i realize that im stuck here, whether i like it or not, and also i now know that im the one in control, maybe not in control of everything that happens in my life, but i dont have to do anything if i dont want to and i can do anything if i want to (but of course, i have to deal with he consequences of my actions )

so anyway thats my little story, school (in my opinion) is basically programming you to be obedient to TPTB
they'll reward you if you do what they say and they will punish you if you dont

reply to post by TheGrandWarlock


Thats me in a nutshell but luckily back then (40 years ago) they didnt lock us up for truancy in the uk, just got wacked with the cane

reply to post by VoidHawk

I can't say that I agree with the OP's example on the video, but I understand the concepts.
I am a product of Catholic and public schools, and became a father while I was still finishing my education.
I was not satisfied with my own progress, even though I did very well (Merit Scholar), and started looking into alternatives even before my first-born was able to walk.

Much of what I've read so far in this thread seems to focus on the balance between individuality and structure, and there are scattered references to homelife.

From my experience, the most critical part of the process is parental support and encouragement of learning and exploration. I've known parents at the extremes: some who used reading and homework as punishment; others who demanded rote memorization and submission to authority.

What my wife and I settled on was a program that provides children the encouragement and freedom to learn at their own pace combined with instruction, direction and support. Of course, we read, sang songs and explored at home, away from the school setting.

Our children have each excelled in their own ways. Rebellion (it's natural), but not a lack of discipline. Achievers, but not Machiavellians. Deep thinkers, but not obsessives. Other parents and my chidren's classmates have enjoyed similar results.

Yet, no one here has even mentioned the program I've briefly described. It was developed over 100 years ago for children from ages 2 to 18, and has become widely recognized for its excellence. It depends upon a child's preparedness for learning (the supportive home) and values the individual needs of each child.

Although almost all of you have described it in your idealized descriptions, none of you have recognized that the learning paradigm you've sought is The Montessori Method.
Click the link, see what you've missed.

jw

I've had a couple nightmares where I'm back in school again and the teachers/aides/etc are like prison guards. They have no emotions and no flexibility and no patience. In one of them that I still remember even now, I can't find my car and one of the aides comes out to get me. She says lunch period is over and it's time for class. I tell her that my car is gone. She grabs my arm with an evil look and says something like "Get to class or I'll write you up." I know this must give the impression that I'm exaggerating something, but I can honestly say that my feeling in the dream was astonishment and anger. When I woke up, I became suddenly afraid that the future of school will be ruled by people like her - people obsessed with rules and doing the "right" thing. Fortunately, most of my dreams in school are ok, except that I never get the work done because I always fail to understand the work. Sometimes I actually learn something from it. And sometimes it's just plain fun.

What's funny is it has been 15 years since I last was in HS and yet I'm still having dreams where I'm either in the HS or the gradeschool. And I'm always my older self, a 30-something.

I think all of the school shootings have inflamed the paranoids out there and if good honest and fair people don't strive to preserve the freedoms of students the paranoids will attain complete control. This is no different than other structure-obsessed fanatical fascists or dictators controlling a company or nation. All it requires is that the normally passive free-flowing people fail to act.

sorry, but this is just more of the "spoil the kids rotten" attitude. When you spoil kids, they grow up to be self entitled adults who thinks they own the world.

Not a world I want to live in.

Plus letting the kids vote for teachers is a bad idea. All it'll be is a popularity contest, nothing more.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Plus letting the kids vote for teachers is a bad idea. All it'll be is a popularity contest, nothing more.

Did you watch the vid I posted? If you had you'd know your wrong.