Iraq Prisoners Tried By Occupiers

Originally posted by Gazrok
Uhmm...I never said I believed the account...just that he was remembering accurately...hehe...

It's obvious you think that the US duct taping hands and mouths is far less humane than Saddam slowly dipping them in an acid vat, so can't we just agree to disagree?

Ahahaha, sure. Just like Saddam's Human meat grinder right? I never heard that acid vat, that's a new one to me.

Info, please tell me that you are just trying to piss people off. I find it hard to believe someone can actually be that freaking ignorant.

I feel like a low-life for even responding to your crap.
This will be the last time I respond to you. Have a nice day.

Incredible that "Info" has not responded to my queries.

I will ask you again to respond to my questions and have others.

Do you have any idea what the long term effects are of such treatment?

How can you ignore a social problem which results in people looking to place blame on someone for there lives?

Who are they (the tortured and there families) in general blaming?

Do you feel personally this behavior (as in last question with respect to "they") is permissible?

"Info" do you not care for those people who were killed?

Originally posted by Toltec
Incredible that "Info" has not responded to my queries.

Yes Will, there is a reason for that. I fear you. LOL, I know if I start up with you there will never be a resolve. So, I'm just going to avoid you.

Do you have any idea what the long term effects are of such treatment?

I don't know which treatment you are referring to but in general as with any treatment if it happens enough a person becomes desensitized from whatever it may be. Just like your body gets used to drugs in the body.

How can you ignore a social problem which results in people looking to place blame on someone for there lives?

Everyone has someone or something to blame on their problems on, which are you referring to?

Who are they (the tortured and there families) in general blaming?

The Iraqi people were free to leave the country and cross into Syria or what have you. I don't necessarily like the way everything is done in America but I can't single handedly change it, all I can do is leave. If Saddam was such a horrible man, they should have left. Saddam was an ego maniac that cared more for his self image than his people. I understand it wasn't the best place to live, but it wasn't the worst.

Even though, this war no matter how you roll the dice and try and put a happy face on it had nothing to do with the people of Iraq.

Do you feel personally this behavior (as in last question with respect to "they") is permissible?

I don't think it was as bad as it was made out to be. And if anyone is to place blame on Saddam they should point the finger at America first. He was created by America. He used to be Americas main man in the middle east.

"Info" do you not care for those people who were killed?

Of course I care. You know I do. I think things could have been handled differently than war.

[Edited on 23-4-2003 by Info]

You are afraid of me because of what is clear, my questions with respect to my first post to you were clear. They are in fact still available for your review, repeating them makes little sense.

It is said that what does not kill you will make you stronger, I have no intention of killing you "Info" so keep this in mind.

I understand you seem to feel that things could have been handled differently. But is it your family members that are being tortured, are your sisters and brothers being raped? Are any of your relatives buried in an unmarked grave in Badgered or in any other city of Iraq?

If any of this is true why are you preoccupied with what American soldiers are doing? They have not killed anyone for politics they have not raped anyone and no one has been tortured like what has been clearly done to most Iraqi's every day.

Sure people got away, we have Iraqis in the US who got away. Many of them suffered the same treatment that those who stayed received. Have you ever tried to get away from someone who is harming you? Have you ever tried to get away from someone like that? I will personally say a prayer for you that you are never in such a situation for if you are you will learn fist hand, what it is like.

What exactly is worst, than someone who tortures you to death? Especially when you are innocent and have no answers the Man[b/] wants.


You feel that war is this circumstance is unnecessary but had that been the decision. The torture, rape and murders would have continued (and no one would have known they were happening with exception of those it was happening to, thanks to the UN and by the way as well as).

In this country if you disagree with what your government sees as appropriate, you post your impression on a public forum. In those[b/] Countries you are mutilated tortured and eventually killed for expressing the same basic thoughts.


If you fear me, then to be honest you have no idea what fear is. It apparent that to you fear is something you see in movies and paid with that credit card you got with your summer job. To other people, what you see in the movies is part of there day to day life. The only thing that is missing is the special effects and the fictional story.

The point being this, if you want to meet Freddie Crugar or the guy from the Holoween series, travel to an Arab country and complain about what you see. If you really give them a hard time then perhaps what is apparent in the Hell Raiser series will become a part of your life. Keep this in mind �Info � to me this is not a joke but to be honest the fact you claim you are afraid of me sure is.

What are your thoughts?

Originally posted by Toltec

You are afraid of me because of what is clear, my questions with respect to my first post to you were clear. They are in fact still available for your review, repeating them makes little sense.

It is said that what does not kill you will make you stronger, I have no intention of killing you "Info" so keep this in mind.

I understand you seem to feel that things could have been handled differently. But is it your family members that are being tortured, are your sisters and brothers being raped? Are any of your relatives buried in an unmarked grave in Badgered or in any other city of Iraq?

If any of this is true why are you preoccupied with what American soldiers are doing? They have not killed anyone for politics they have not raped anyone and no one has been tortured like what has been clearly done to most Iraqi's every day.

Sure people got away, we have Iraqis in the US who got away. Many of them suffered the same treatment that those who stayed received. Have you ever tried to get away from someone who is harming you? Have you ever tried to get away from someone like that? I will personally say a prayer for you that you are never in such a situation for if you are you will learn fist hand, what it is like.

What exactly is worst, than someone who tortures you to death? Especially when you are innocent and have no answers the Man[b/] wants.


You feel that war is this circumstance is unnecessary but had that been the decision. The torture, rape and murders would have continued (and no one would have known they were happening with exception of those it was happening to, thanks to the UN and by the way as well as).

In this country if you disagree with what your government sees as appropriate, you post your impression on a public forum. In those[b/] Countries you are mutilated tortured and eventually killed for expressing the same basic thoughts.


If you fear me, then to be honest you have no idea what fear is. It apparent that to you fear is something you see in movies and paid with that credit card you got with your summer job. To other people, what you see in the movies is part of there day to day life. The only thing that is missing is the special effects and the fictional story.

The point being this, if you want to meet Freddie Crugar or the guy from the Holoween series, travel to an Arab country and complain about what you see. If you really give them a hard time then perhaps what is apparent in the Hell Raiser series will become a part of your life. Keep this in mind �Info � to me this is not a joke but to be honest the fact you claim you are afraid of me sure is.

What are your thoughts?

It's apparent you believe everything you've been spoon fed through the media, this is fine.

The fear you was a joke, it's obvious you aren't able to interpret jokes. I think of you as a tic, you just wanna hide in someone's hair and feed off of them.

As for American soldiers not torturing people, this is just false. Maybe you have lost the definition of torture but indeed they are torturing Iraqi's if not directly indirectly by just being there. I will though provide a link cause it seems you believe America doesn't torture people. When in fact US has admitted to torturing people at Camp X-Ray and have admitted men have died because of it.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

They got away? Excuse me, they were free to leave. You act as if they had to make a big escape. What a joke.

This last post you made is so bad I not only dislike your tic style tactics of never going away but I feel you are lacking intellect.

I simply don't like the way you think, there is no reason for us to post to each other. You aren't on the level.

*Edit*

Here are some more links.

www.guardian.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...


[Edited on 23-4-2003 by Info]

"Ahahaha, sure. Just like Saddam's Human meat grinder right? I never heard that acid vat, that's a new one to me."

Well, the acid vat bit goes back to the first Gulf War. When Saddam's cronies left Kuwait, they found legless torsos hanging over acid and chemical vats, etc. Then, during this war, they found another one of Saddam's torture halls, with the same chains over chemical vats used for torture. This was as recent as the past couple weeks (this particular story was the same day they freed the children jailed by Saddam, so it's likely in archives).

Its seems clear you are the one who is being spoon fed "Info" I do not only depend upon information from the press.

So you think I am a tick what an interesting statement I bet you feel that is insulting. Being of American Indian and Oriental decent all animals (even insects) are seen as teachers each having something unique to offer. I take it that your implication is that I am not important or insignificant. Well then would point out that it is the very same implication, which seems to be the problem.

I used your statement that you were afraid as a point to my argument. It was an opportunity to present to you how little you really does care and to be honest I do sincerely appreciate the fact you fell for it.

The two men, both Afghans, died last December at the US forces base in Bagram, north of Kabul, where prisoners have been held for questioning. The autopsies found they had suffered "blunt force injuries" and classified both deaths as homicides.

A spokesman for the Pentagon said yesterday it was not possible to discuss the details of the case because of the proceeding investigation. If the investigation finds that the prisoners had been unlawfully killed during interrogation, it could lead to both civil and military prosecutions. He added that it was not clear whether only US personnel had had access to the men.

There is in fact a murder investigation in process can you say the same thing to the 50,000+ families in Iraq? For all we know some of the flesh of these people were sold as meat at the very same stores there wives frequented.

What is a joke is that you chose to preset an argument, which offers a link to genocidal behavior you have not yet responded to. Clearly and beyond any shadow of doubt it is your tactics which have a basis in
insanity or perhaps, Socio-pathic tendencies.

That was your link "info" not mines, your great Arab press is hypocritical. to the extent today it reports what is happening in Iraq. But when Saddam Hussein was in power it reported how wonderful he was.

Your argument is the stuff we buy diapers for. The meaning of your point falls into an area of irrelevance
to which I can only assign a negative value. The links you provide potentially speak of the actions of
individuals.

This is not about individuals this is about institutions, which consider murder on a grand scale an OK.

Institutions like the very link you initially provided.

Anyone see Osama latest video that was just release?

www.joecartoon.com...

"It's God's responsability to forgive Bin Laden

It's ours to help him get there"

Well, I just happened upon this thread, and I've read through the whole thing. It's been...interesting. I'm kinda curious as to why something on American media must be a lie, while Arab media is obviously telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Info, I think you've been mis-led somewhere. I'd like to address a few points made here, and hopefully will be back to address the rest.

First, the gagging. It seems to be your contention, Info, that there would be no reason to gag the prisoners who are trying to incite a revolt because they had bags over their heads and their arms were tied behind their backs. This could be true, except for one thing, the Iraqi prisoners outnumbered the Americans by about 100 to 1. Their ears weren't covered, so they would be able to hear where the marines were at, I'm sure the marines weren't gagged. It could have been that Saddam had plants in many regular army units whose goal was to do exactly this, revolt against the Americans that captured them, and then kill the regular Iraqi army guys for surrendering. We weren't there, we won't know exactly what these guys may have been saying. 5000 people, bound and blind, could overwhelm 50 marines. The M-16 typically has 30 rounds per clip. The marines were in close proximity to the prisoners. They all charge at once with the intent to trample, a marine may get 5 to 10 shots in before hitting the ground. 10*50 = 500. 1/10th of the prisoners.

As for the bags over their heads, I'm sure if we hadn't put the bags over their heads, you'd be here screaming that America violated the Geneva convention for showboating the prisoners and their identities. So as far as you're conserned, Info, that was a lose lose situation for the Americans. Yeah, we could have brough masks. We could have made the units 55 and had 5 people just carrying masks for Iraqi prisoners. Personally, I'd rather our resources go towards something useful.

As for Lynch...She went through marine training. She was not "fragile". I never heard anything about a lawyer finding her, the only story I heard was it was a doctor's tip that led the troops to her, and I've been following the war pretty closely. Not sure where that info came from, Info, but if you could provide a link to a dated article, I'd be interested to read it.

You have also said, Info, that the execution style deaths of US troops was American propoganda. Would you contend, then, that Al' Jazeera is in the US's pocket? They aired the film, we didn't. They also tend to air film where they just happen to be at a site where a roadside bomb is buried as a US convoy drives past. Sure doesn't seem like they're in the pocket of the US to me.

To everyone else: I'm assuming I'm about to join the ranks of the insulted