NASA : the realism and outlook of LENR

While the believers and naysayers assembled themselves into their respective camps, more and more information on the phenomenon of LENR keeps popping up. I recommend reading the weekly updates on Sterling Allen's LENR-to-Market page.

LENR-to-market Weekly - 24 May

This thread is basically a continuation of a previous thread ( NASA admits Blacklight and LENR real!! ) but this is such an exciting technology that we can't afford to keep it buried in the ATS crypts, and the important threads tend to die alone in the dark

NASA recently released some new information on their involvement:



All gather round and listen to Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center:

Although there is a quite long history of "anomalous" observations, including transmutations, the "recent" consideration of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) began in the late 80's with the Pons/Fleishman observations and assertions regarding what they termed "Cold Fusion." However, subsequent difficulties with experimental replication and an utter lack of convincing theoretical explication forced research in this arena "underground" with minimal financial support.

The current situation is that we now have over two decades of hundreds of experiments worldwide indicating heat and transmutations with minimal radiation and low energy input. By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR "Real?" Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental evidence. And, yes - with effects occurring from using diverse materials, methods of energy addition etc. This is far from a "Narrow Band" set of physical phenomena.

The next consideration is "What is real? What is happening?" For NASA Langley, the epiphany moment on LENR was the publication of the Widom-Larsen Weak Interaction LENR Theory....

...The Strong Force Particle physicists have evidently been correct all along. "Cold Fusion" is not possible. However, via collective effects/ condensed matter quantum nuclear physics, LENR is allowable without any "miracles." The theory states that once some energy is added to load surfaces with hydrogen/protons, if the surface morphology enables high localized voltage gradients, then heavy electrons leading to ultra low energy neutrons will form-- neutrons that never leave the surface. The neutrons set up isotope cascades which result in beta decay, heat and transmutations with the heavy electrons converting the beta decay gamma into heat....

...Therefore, the LENR situation and outlook is the following:

Something real is happening.
The weak interaction theories suggest what the physics might be.
There are efforts ongoing to explore the validity of the theories.
There are continuing Edisonian efforts to produce "devices" mainly for heat or in some cases transmutations.
There are efforts to "certify" such devices.
NASA LaRC has begun LENR design studies guided by the Weak Interaction Theory

LENR - The realism and outlook

Any naysayers out there? Debunk away. So far criticism has mostly centered around the eccentric character of Mr. Rossi, the mad "scientist" conducting evil experiments in his warehouse cave in Italy.

When you are one step ahead, you're a genius. Two steps, crackpot.

The reality is that a real nuclear phenomenon has been observed since 1989 by Pons and Fleishman. Is there ANY justification for this technology to be subverted and not being reported on, when the stakes for the sustainable survival of the human race are so high? This is not just the work of one mad scientist, and should we as a human race accept the ramifications of a new understanding of (nuclear - in this case) reality, the future is very bright indeed.

In his book “The Singularity is Near”, Ray Kurzweil discusses how just about everybody tends to underestimate short term targets and badly overestimate long term targets, especially when talking about technology which improves exponentially. This comes about because everyone instinctively extrapolates in a linear fashion. In your case your history tells you it took you 25 years to get where you are now so in another 25 years you should have advanced twice as far. What you forget is the tendency of information based technologies to follow Moore’s Law (en.wikipedia.org...) which generally states that integrated circuits halve in size and double in power every 18 to 24 months.

The ecat is not an integrated circuit but its advancement is directly related to scientific research which makes it an exponentially improving information technology. If the ecat were to roughly follow Moore’s law as other science based technologies do then it could reasonably be expected to halve in size and double in power approximately every two years. In 10 years that would be 5 halvings in size and 5 doublings in power. The current inefficiency in thermoelectric conversion, which is about 70% waste heat could also halve every two years. If these figures are anywhere close to true then your 10 KW home ecat in 10 years will be 3% of its current size, generate 300 KW of power which will be converted to electricity at about 97% efficiency. The ecat would effectively evolve into a nuclear battery about the size of a “D” flashlight battery, generate about 300 KW of electricity and produce waste heat at about 10 KW. Now we be flying.

It may sound like science fiction but imagine the resources that this invention will free up and the scale of the financial and human resources that will be brought to bear on this technology once it’s proven and accepted. It could well create a renaissance in science.

Larry's Perspective

Resistance to the proliferation of this information, is resistance to the evolution of mankind.

2012 might yet be a turning point.

Reality changes as we accept new beliefs : LENR, quantum mechanics, quasi crystals, and superconducting. This leads to real products, real changes, and new opportunities. Suppression can only work until the idea's time has come. LENR is nothing more than the acceptance of the quantum states of matter and how the atom really works. The reason it is changing slowly is the magnitude of the lie we have all been told since Standard Oil monopolized the oil markets, JP Morgan took over GE, Electrical energy, and the auto companies. With Fukishima and the end of Cheap Oil, most are being forced to accept the truth. As this paradigm begins, the fight for power and control of banking and energy engages..

reply to post by PadawanGandalf

By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR "Real?" Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental evidence

The next consideration is "What is real? What is happening?" For NASA Langley, the epiphany moment on LENR was the publication of the Widom-Larsen Weak Interaction LENR Theory....

...Therefore, the LENR situation and outlook is the following:

Something real is happening.
The weak interaction theories suggest what the physics might be.

I can't wait to see how Boncho tries to spin this into something it's not...

BUMPETY BUMP BUMP!!!!!!!

Come on folks, here we have an article by Chief Scientist of NASA Langley Research Center essentially admitting LENR is real, yet this thread has only 3 flags an hour. I mean is this an old article or something? Because I've never seen it before... where is the interest this thread deserves? No wonder this stuff is so easy for them to sweep under the carpet, no one really pays attention to the important stuff... :shk:

Nobody likes to be wrong and given that most scientist are paid to both work and think towards certain goals expecting any kind of 'correction' in the main stream press normally takes about this long! As i have understood from books i have read in the past science writers, mostly non scientist, are often the worse of the bunch and will defend scientific thought or scientific conventions long after they are no longer seen as such by those who work at the forefront in any given field.

Obviously you then come to forums such as these where lay individuals such as myself are either throwing around the newest, and perhaps worse, theories out there or on the other side defending the most contrived& oldest versions of whatever theories were one believed laws...

I have spent a bit of time over the years looking at LENR 'stuff' and i have always thought that they had to have been on to something major to fall from grace so fast; one step ahead makes you a genius but two steps ahead means ridicule and banishment as you just made everyone else look rather dull witted, or worse, part of a conspiracy of feigned ignorance.

Now we get to wait twenty years till this notion filters trough to street level.

Stellar

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by PadawanGandalf

 

By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR "Real?" Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental evidence

The next consideration is "What is real? What is happening?" For NASA Langley, the epiphany moment on LENR was the publication of the Widom-Larsen Weak Interaction LENR Theory....

...Therefore, the LENR situation and outlook is the following:

Something real is happening.
The weak interaction theories suggest what the physics might be.

I can't wait to see how Boncho tries to spin this into something it's not...

edit on 25-5-2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

I'm supportive of LENR research as it has clearly been shown that the process is not fully understood and needs more research. There is also a clear indication that something is happening.

But...

I don't support people that claim to have invented working machines off the idea of LENR without validating or providing sufficient proof of such, while taking in investor money.

This is a very interesting endorsement especially coming from NASA. I hope to see this technology come very far very fast now that it's starting to gain recognition. Maybe Brillouin energy will be at the forefront they seem to have a device that's working and are quietly doing what they can to get it ready for market.

Let's get behind this technology in a big way considering the war on coal is going to jump prices by 8x by 2015.

edit to add: Hopefully this technology makes my current project a fools errand I'd hate to have to go back to generating power with wood but it's looking likely if we don't make a breakthrough somewhere soon.

reply to post by PadawanGandalf


There is a difference between saying there might be something to LENR, and sayin you have created it, wont allow anyone to verify, won't get patents, and continue to engage in shady behavior.

The mistake people make here, and you made, is tying Rossi to LENR. LENR has something to it, Rossi screams fraud every time he opens his mouth. How about we focus on LENR and leave the frauds like Rossi out.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by PadawanGandalf

 

There is a difference between saying there might be something to LENR, and sayin you have created it, wont allow anyone to verify, won't get patents, and continue to engage in shady behavior.

The mistake people make here, and you made, is tying Rossi to LENR. LENR has something to it, Rossi screams fraud every time he opens his mouth. How about we focus on LENR and leave the frauds like Rossi out.

Exactly.

When people mention Rossi and LENR in the same sentence I always cringe .... Hopefully Rossi's reputation isnt't he death of LENR as a useful technology... Then again if humans were the type to give up on something because of one silly person trying it first and failing miserably we'd have never flown an airplane. The fits and starts of the flight industry and the amazing failures it has sometimes produced give me hope that LENR can overcome a bad apple like Rossi and still make it to market.