Something for Protestants to Consider

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
I didn't mean it like that at all. I was a Protestant myself and these cold facts hit me like that so I sometimes say them in a shorter way than I probably should. Please don't think I'm calling anyone less Christian or right or wrong, I'm just saying that from a perfectly easy to follow historical perspective that Orthodoxy is the only true Christian Church in the sense that any other Christian churches HAD to somehow break away from it or take from it in some way.

...or maybe neither are correct?

Like anything else, it's all a matter of faith.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


Mirriam-Webster for vicar - one serving as a substitute or agent; specifically : an administrative deputy.

Catholics believe that the Pope acts exactly as described above, shepherding the terrestrial Church until the return of the Lord, the King of Kings. He is emphatically not considered a substitute for God or an alternative for Jesus. He is a servant of the Lord.

The Pope's infallibility is extremely limited and basically means that he is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching authoritatively an error when it comes to faith and morality. I'm not sure of the exact number, but I believe that the Pope has taught as such about 6 times in the history of the Church.

I have no idea where you got the unquestionable part. The Pope, his Papacy, his policies, his writings, his outreach and almost every facet of the man are questioned constantly by both Catholics and non-Catholics.

Eric

reply to post by EricD

Thank you. I am still a recovering Protestant and remain very weary of the RCC because of its atrocious history.

reply to post by TruthSeekerMike


I admire your search for truth.

You may eventually find that much of what you were wary of was what you were taught as opposed to what actually is.

Eric

I don't mean to offend, but:
Luke 17:20-21 One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, "When will the Kingdom of God come?"
Jesus replied, "The Kingdom of God can't be detected by visible signs.
You won't be able to say, 'Here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For the Kingdom of God is already among you."

There is a Mother of Harlots. ("Mother" of those unfaithful to God.)
And there are children of the Mother of Harlots.
I have a general idea about who these may be.
But I know that God loves us all and wants us to stop sinning,
to humble ourselves and turn to God, it's not about church buildings.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Like anything else, it's all a matter of faith.

IMO, faith is never a good reason to base your life on something. If it were, all belief systems would be justified.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
You make a good point. However, can we be sure that the EO church is not corrupted? In your favor, I have not heard of any pedophilia in the EO church, either.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church existed on this Earth that was started by Jesus?

There is plenty of corruption in the Orthodox churches - probably more than other denominations. I read a few Orthodox books while I was attending Orthodox church. There are stories of priests raping nuns - in the church.

I actually think the Catholic Church due to its experience and bureaucracy might be the least corrupt church. Orthodox Churches are more like the wild west.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Jim Scott
You make a good point. However, can we be sure that the EO church is not corrupted? In your favor, I have not heard of any pedophilia in the EO church, either.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church existed on this Earth that was started by Jesus?

There is plenty of corruption in the Orthodox churches - probably more than other denominations. I read a few Orthodox books while I was attending Orthodox church. There are stories of priests raping nuns - in the church.

I actually think the Catholic Church due to its experience and bureaucracy might be the least corrupt church. Orthodox Churches are more like the wild west.

In individual parishes, humans have sometimes acted accordingly and done bad things, but it doesn't alter the faith or effect the Church because each parish is basically autonomous. There is no central authority in Orthodoxy except the Bible, the Icons and the first 7 Councils.

Originally posted by EricD
reply to post by TruthSeekerMike

 

I admire your search for truth.

You may eventually find that much of what you were wary of was what you were taught as opposed to what actually is.

Eric

Thanks. I can see that there are probably more similarities than differences in the two churches. The differences are primarily theological and structural and are worth discussing because they can be addressed unlike the 4th Crusade.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Jim Scott
You make a good point. However, can we be sure that the EO church is not corrupted? In your favor, I have not heard of any pedophilia in the EO church, either.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church existed on this Earth that was started by Jesus?

There is plenty of corruption in the Orthodox churches - probably more than other denominations. I read a few Orthodox books while I was attending Orthodox church. There are stories of priests raping nuns - in the church.

I actually think the Catholic Church due to its experience and bureaucracy might be the least corrupt church. Orthodox Churches are more like the wild west.

In individual parishes, humans have sometimes acted accordingly and done bad things, but it doesn't alter the faith or effect the Church because each parish is basically autonomous. There is no central authority in Orthodoxy except the Bible, the Icons and the first 7 Councils.

So if we acknowledge that on a practical level there is not a dime's worth of difference between an Orthodox a Catholic a Baptist and a Pagan, what's the point of trying to promote Orthodoxy?

How has converting to Orthodoxy changed you? Why did you convert?

Originally posted by borntowatch
Christ called Peter possessed, satan even, and your church is built on satanism
, “But when He had turned about and looked on His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, Get you behind Me, Satan: for you savor not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.” Christ was not implying that Peter was Satan.

and you question protestants.

I posted that very quote to a Christian in here a few days ago, and he informed me I was taking it out of context. I didn't think so at all.

Originally posted by windword
I'm not Catholic. I was raised in a Pentecostal, Assembly of God Church. I know nothing at all about Orthodoxy. Can you please list some of the differences between the Protestant and Catholic forms of worship as it compares the Orthodox Christian Church?

I was raised in the same church, windword, and my Mom, a very fundamental Church of God follower, disowned me, after hating me for years, and calling me everything from Satan's child to the Anti-Christ. Is this the way of your church, or have they changed since then? Just asking.

reply to post by autowrench


Hey Autowrench!

My mom used to take me to the preacher to have "the devil cast out of me" because I displayed psychic abilities and spoke of my past lives.

Heck, I was disowned from the church and by my mother for NOT having an abortion, when I became pregnant by a man that wasn't a Christian. My sister never let me meet or talk on the phone with my two nephews, because I might contaminate them or something. I've never met their children either.

Before her death, my sister, myself and my 34 year old daughter visited my mom. Her and my sister were in full proselytization mode. I asked:

"If you were in heaven, and St Peter asked you to watch the pearly gates while he took a break, and by providence, I showed up, would you let me in?"

My mom: "No."

Me: "What about your lovely granddaughter, would you let her in?"

Mom: "No."

I went into a rant about a mother's love and how I would fight God, Satan and all their angels for my daughter and I didn't understand how she could hold a god that wouldn't in such reverence.

Church think is mass hysteria, IMO.

These are kind of bad memories, but what you posted made me think of it again. So here goes, and I am not attempting to derail the thread.
As a child we had a 40 acre woods to play in. Viet Nam was raging then, and many people I knew personally either were drafted, or had sons why were drafted. I played war. I had these playmates out there, there were always six, dressed in ragged clothing, and all carried muskets. Mine, of course, was made of wood, I had fashioned it myself. I thought nothing of this, to me it was completely normal. These men were real as can be, I could touch them, and we talked all the time. They all called me "Capitan."

There came an evening when I was late to supper. In our house, this was akin to a crime. When questioned as to what I had been doing, I blurted out I had been "with my men." Of course I had to give her a complete description of everything. She became utterly convinced that I was possessed by Demons. For three days in August the preacher, deacon, and two church ladies prayed over me most of the day, Jesus this, Jesus that, casting out these "demons" in "The Name of Jesus." I could not even talk to them, they would not let me. Today, this would be labeled child abuse.

Those men have always been with me. Two times I am convinced they saved my life...once when a car on a hydraulic lift almost fell on me, and another time when I hit a tree real hard, and was pushed over into the floor. Members of my family have seen them, friends have seen them. Why they hang around me I have no idea. I have tried on many occasions to send them home, but they will not go. Now days, they only show up when danger is near. True story.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Jim Scott
You make a good point. However, can we be sure that the EO church is not corrupted? In your favor, I have not heard of any pedophilia in the EO church, either.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the church existed on this Earth that was started by Jesus?

There is plenty of corruption in the Orthodox churches - probably more than other denominations. I read a few Orthodox books while I was attending Orthodox church. There are stories of priests raping nuns - in the church.

I actually think the Catholic Church due to its experience and bureaucracy might be the least corrupt church. Orthodox Churches are more like the wild west.

In individual parishes, humans have sometimes acted accordingly and done bad things, but it doesn't alter the faith or effect the Church because each parish is basically autonomous. There is no central authority in Orthodoxy except the Bible, the Icons and the first 7 Councils.

So if we acknowledge that on a practical level there is not a dime's worth of difference between an Orthodox a Catholic a Baptist and a Pagan, what's the point of trying to promote Orthodoxy?

How has converting to Orthodoxy changed you? Why did you convert?

Converting to Orthodoxy has changed me in many ways. Most importantly with how I interact with the world. But in several other ways too. I used to think believe in Jesus and the Bible but thought Christianity was full of contradictions because protestantism is full of them. I found the answers to the deeper questions I had and found that the contradictions were never actually part of the faith. Then I went to an Orthodox service and remember calling my wife saying, "I just worshiped God in Church for the first time!". Not because I had never been to church before, but because no matter how hard I tried in life I could never understand how listening to Earl and Jane sing "Jesus Loves Me" or a guy giving an impassioned speech was actually worshiping God or just admiring his creation. Orthodoxy is God-centered, while others always seemed man-centered.
In my historical and theological research it became clear that Orthodoxy is beyond a shadow of a doubt the church Christ left on Earth and the church of the New Testament. And let me be really clear, I don't mean that I had a revelation or vision or heard a voice, I did dispassionate research and found tons of documented proof that the traditions of Orthodoxy are the same as the Apostles.
The reason I converted was simple, I love Jesus Christ and like the paralytic or the blind beggar, I want to be healed.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike...
Converting to Orthodoxy has changed me in many ways. Most importantly with how I interact with the world. But in several other ways too. I used to think believe in Jesus and the Bible but thought Christianity was full of contradictions because protestantism is full of them. I found the answers to the deeper questions I had and found that the contradictions were never actually part of the faith.
...

So what were the contradictions that Orthodoxy helped resolve? What distinguishes Orthodoxy from Catholicism and Protestantism in your opinion?

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike...
Converting to Orthodoxy has changed me in many ways. Most importantly with how I interact with the world. But in several other ways too. I used to think believe in Jesus and the Bible but thought Christianity was full of contradictions because protestantism is full of them. I found the answers to the deeper questions I had and found that the contradictions were never actually part of the faith.
...

So what were the contradictions that Orthodoxy helped resolve? What distinguishes Orthodoxy from Catholicism and Protestantism in your opinion?

There were lots of contradictions that were resolved for me when I found Orthodoxy, I'll just list a few in no particular order or importance:
1) My old pastor used to tell us that Mary was a "nobody" and she deserves no thought or honor. I used to ask what does it mean when it says "all generations shall call me blessed"? and the answer was, "you should". "But you just said not to". "Well, she's nothing to really worry about." In Orthodoxy, we call Mary into remembrance very often and honor her for being the one person on earth that God chose to bear himself in human form.
2) I used to also ask why we considered jewish people God's chosen people when the Bible is quite clear that those who didn't accept Jesus lost that status. Of course I'd hear long drawn out explanations about the end days and battles and prophecies but never a suitable answer that actually jived with the Bible. In Orthodoxy, it's exactly Biblical; the Jewish faith was fulfilled in Christianity and no longer exists.
3) In my protestant history, I had learned that communion was just a thing to do every now and then but only to remember Jesus (as if we sometimes forgot or something) even though Jesus himself said to do it often and the epistles speak of people receiving it unworthily and getting very sick or dying. I was told that back then God did things but he has since stopped. I don't know about you but that sounds plain silly to me. In Orthodoxy we receive communion weekly and respect its power.
4) I had always been taught that as soon as someone says the believe in Jesus, they're going to heaven no matter what. It seemed odd to me because again the Bible is so clear that God calls on us to actually change our lives and "work out [our] own salvation". Orthodoxy doesn't believe you can trick God into letting you into heaven.

That's just a few conflicts that were resolved for me.

As far as what distinguishes it from Protestantism and Catholicism, it's like comparing The Palm to Burger King and Wendy's. You still get meat from BK and Wendy's and it even tastes pretty good but when you bite into a burger from The Palm, you know you are eating the real deal.

Also, no one in Orthodoxy has ever or will ever tell anyone they're going to Hell. We don't care what you eat. We don't care how you dress. We don't seek to impose our views on others or force them to be good.

There are entire books written that better answer your questions, but I hope this helps.