WTC7, the smoking gun that just will not go away until the traitors are rounded up

reply to post by kidtwist

The lamposts were part of the plan, they were felled to make it seem like a plane hit them, they have been analysed, and from the evidence gathered they look to have been deliberately staged.

Do you have the experience, qualifications and evidence to prove this?
Or is it just another hunch you have?

Originally posted by samkent

Do you have the experience, qualifications and evidence to prove this?
Or is it just another hunch you have?

So I guess if the government tells you how it happened, you don't need experience, qualifications and evidence, just faith eh?

Don't question the government folks, the bastions of truth.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by kidtwist

 

The lamposts were part of the plan, they were felled to make it seem like a plane hit them, they have been analysed, and from the evidence gathered they look to have been deliberately staged.

Do you have the experience, qualifications and evidence to prove this?
Or is it just another hunch you have?

So what experience does one need to know that governments commit false flag terrorism?

Originally posted by Varemia

Well, the plane did hit a bunch of lamp-posts on its way to the pentagon. Smoke might be a result of one of those impacts.

I'm just saying. It's a likely possibility.

The smoke is most likely oil from the engine. Jet engines use oil as both a lubricant and for cooling. It is kept under high pressure to keep it from boiling.




The starboard engine clipped a tree on the way to the pentagon. This would have damaged the fan and compressor blades, unbalanced engine and blown the seals, allowing oil to escape.




Below is a photo of a oil leak after a bird strike. Looks just like the pentagon photo.




UA175 engine cores also left an oil trail. The starboard engine trailed oil all the way to the ground. The oil from the port engine ignited shortly after exiting the building, leaving a trail of black smoke. Oil vapour is white when it boils and black when it burns.



You can also see oil boiling from a very hot engine core exiting the crater made by UA93. Notice how it doesn't really rise, it exits the crater low hugging the ground like a heavy vapour. Lucky there was wind that day or it would have filled the crater like mist on a pond. The Truthers would have gone crazy.



The purpose of the plastic bag was probably not to keep dirt out, It's purpose was more likely to keep the smell in. Over heated oil has a very nasty overpowering smell that gets in your sinuses and stays with you for days. Any one who has worked on an over heated trans axel of a car knows the smell.



If you watch the videos from the crash scene, you'll notice the oil boiled out of the crater for a long time the smell would have overpowering.

So what does over heated oil smell like ? These two reporters nail the description perfectly.

"We (were) literally surrounded by debris, and there's a very strong odor of scorched earth," Parsons reported. "It doesn't smell like jet fuel, it smells like ... How do you describe it? Burned earth. It smells like burned earth."

Nice little gif, makes it a bit clearer to see what hit the pentagon. Still see no plane here?!

A series of five images made by a surveillance camera on Sept. 11 which show American Airlines Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon were released today. Officials could not explain why the date and time in the bottom left corner of the images are incorrect

Source: www.boston.com...

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer

Doesn't the released pentagon video contradict that pic?

If that white smoke is the plane, then it comes in parallel to the ground, and very low.

Edit; but isn't the plane too high for the damage? If the engines were that high off the ground the impact point would have been much higher wouldn't it? Now that you can't use the excuse it was in a dive, what do you say Dr. Fixer?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by Varemia

Well, the plane did hit a bunch of lamp-posts on its way to the pentagon. Smoke might be a result of one of those impacts.

I'm just saying. It's a likely possibility.

The smoke is most likely oil from the engine. Jet engines use oil as both a lubricant and for cooling. It is kept under high pressure to keep it from boiling.

The starboard engine clipped a tree on the way to the pentagon. This would have damaged the fan and compressor blades, unbalanced engine and blown the seals, allowing oil to escape.

Where did you get this garbage? If you came up with this, then truth seekers have been confronted by a gibbering village ijut.

The joke of the day is when you said, "Jet engines use oil as both a lubricant and for cooling. It is kept under high pressure to keep it from boiling. "

How can anyone get so many facts wrong in two grammatically incorrect sentences???? How is that possible? I believe that is the highest density of stupidity I have ever seen in a meme.

If you apply pressure to any liquid, the temperature increases and cannot possibly be used in that state as a coolant. If you remember your 8th grade education, this is known as Gay-Lussac's law. I repeat, Gay-Lussac's law and not gay loser's law.

Furthermore, jet engines are not cooled because the objective is to draw in air, to compress it to raise the temperature and to ignite the fuel for thrust.

You have no idea of elementary physics and you know this yet you pontificate at the rest of us about 9/11 as if we are more ridicules than you! I feel sick dude.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

If you apply pressure to any liquid, the temperature increases and cannot possibly be used in that state as a coolant. .
.
.
.
Furthermore, jet engines are not cooled because the objective is to draw in air, to compress it to raise the temperature and to ignite the fuel for thrust.

Exxon-Mobil thinks otherwise

International air regulations require that each engine be equipped with a self-contained oil system capable of providing continuous oil flow to the engine, under all conditions. The recirculatory oil system stores, carries, cools, and distributes oil needed for lubricating and cooling every bearing, gear, spline, carbon seal, and certain accessories. Oil Flow The de-aerated, filtered fresh oil flow, delivered by a single positive-displacement pump from a tank attached to the engine, is supplied to each component through a piping network and/or internal flow passages. The supply pump delivery pressure can be regulated or unregulated, depending on the engine builder’s practice. An antisiphon system prevents the tank draining due to the siphoning effect that is created upon engine shutdown through the supply network when the tank is located above a supply nozzle. A pressure relief valve protects the supply pump and circuit against abnormal output pressure that can occur during cold starts. The flow distribution is metered through oil nozzles, protected in some applications by last chance filters or dead end pockets. The flow rate to each component is based on lubrication and cooling requirements in the particular area to be lubricated. Scavenged Oil Flow After lubricating and cooling, the components in the bearing sumps (or compartments), the oil flows down by gravity to the bottom of the sumps, carrying heat, air bubbles,wear particles

I'm not sure you really understand Gay's Law anyway. It relates the temperature of a constant volume of gas to pressure such that Pressure/ Temperature = a constant, K (P/T=k). In my schooling we just learned PV = nRT (the ideal gas law for anyone googling at home). Anyway You ought to know that air conditioners work by pressurizing gas (which does heat it up), radiating some of the gained heat, and then depressurizing the gas (which cools it down) finally energy is absorbed on the cool side of the AC unit, and the cycle begins anew.

Anyway, Gay-Lussac's law doesn't prevent anybody from using pressurized liquids as coolants, provided that there is a change in pressure somewhere along the loop.

caveat: I don't know much about jet engines, so I don't know if they work on a similar principle to air conditioners, or if the oil is kept at a constant pressure in the cooling cycle... that's beside the point.

Anyway, MI5, on your quest for truth, you should use google before making pronouncements about things you know little or nothing of. It took me only a few minutes to find persuasive evidence that your statements about jet engines and cooling systems are grossly misleading, or downright false.

Originally posted by ANOK

Doesn't the released pentagon video contradict that pic?

.
.
.

Edit; but isn't the plane too high for the damage? If the engines were that high off the ground the impact point would have been much higher wouldn't it? Now that you can't use the excuse it was in a dive, what do you say Dr. Fixer?

As I mentioned before, the diagram I posted is not to scale, and is intended only to illustrate the fact that the poster's diagram gave a rather incomplete picture of the situation.

In order to know whether the plane should have hit the cable spools, we need to know their precise size and location before the crash, along with the trajectory and attitude of the jet in its approach. What I mean by attitude is the angle of the plane vs the angle of the trajectory.

I'd be happy to learn about this in more depth if somebody else will do the search to find the necessary data to begin a real discussion. The Pentagon is not one of my big interests.

...edit to add this

what I mean by attitude is probably covered in this article better than I ever could.

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The bickering, petty name-calling, off topic videos, trolling free-for-all ENDS NOW!

Members who fail to post withing the Terms and Conditions of Use face the possibility of post removal and temporary Posting Bans.

[temporaily closed to allow members to read this]

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath


I feel sick dude.

You didn't know that that fluids held under pressure have a higher boiling point ?

Why am I not surprised ?

en.wikipedia.org...

This knowledge has been around since 1679.

reply to post by DrEugeneFixer

I'm not sure you really understand Gay's Law anyway.

You are not sure of anything but it seems it does not stop you from opining. I do note that you say "Gay's Law" rather than Gay-Lussac's law perhaps because of your inordinate familiarity?

It relates the temperature of a constant volume of gas to pressure such that Pressure/ Temperature = a constant, K (P/T=k). In my schooling we just learned PV = nRT (the ideal gas law for anyone googling at home). Anyway You ought to know that air conditioners work by pressurizing gas (which does heat it up), radiating some of the gained heat, and then depressurizing the gas (which cools it down) finally energy is absorbed on the cool side of the AC unit, and the cycle begins anew.

Thanks for sharing your "schooling" with us but you forget that the equation is a model that expresses a principle that pressure increases temperature of matter irrespective of its state.

You will have to explain to us how your refrigerator cools your food and drinks by increasing the temperature of the gas/the refrigerant.

In mine, the compressor displaces the gas a little by applying pressure to draw more gas through the heat exchanger to cool the air from the inside of the fridge. This compressed air is then pushed forward through the closed cycle. You see, at -50°C compressed to -45°C the gas still functions as a coolant.

Your fellow acceptor of the Official Story waypastvne, believes that oil in liquid form in room temperature is used to lubricate the mechanical parts of a jet engine then compressed to a higher temperature then used as a coolant hence the white smoke in the crash.

Anyway, Gay-Lussac's law doesn't prevent anybody from using pressurized liquids as coolants, provided that there is a change in pressure somewhere along the loop.

You are the one who introduced refrigerating systems.

I was talking about jet engines. Once again I accuse you of using reductio ad absurdum to ramrod your straw man argument.

To reiterate the point; it is you who has initiated the discussion about refrigerators.

caveat: I don't know much about jet engines, so I don't know if they work on a similar principle to air conditioners, or if the oil is kept at a constant pressure in the cooling cycle... that's beside the point.

You state the obvious and I venture further by stating that you have had little or no formal training in the physical sciences or engineering.

Anyway, MI5, on your quest for truth, you should use google before making pronouncements about things you know little or nothing of. It took me only a few minutes to find persuasive evidence that your statements about jet engines and cooling systems are grossly misleading, or downright false.

Thank you for your ad adhomenim although it is unwelcome. I propose we set aside your pontifications and leave it to others to decide up on the outcome of our chat.

Something to dwell on;



Open system




Closed system



Apples and oranges dude!!!

It is the air entering the jet engine that is used to cool axillary parts. The compressor is for raising air temperature to reduce the amount of fuel needed for combustion.


In a fridge, a compressor is used to move gas and a little change in temperature is irrelevant at -50°C.
In a jet engine. a compressor is used to compress air to heat it from say an air temperature of about -4 to 40°C to conserve combustion fuel.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

That's a long winded way of talking around the fact that you were wrong:

pressurized fluids are indeed used as coolants, and oil is used as a coolant in jet engines.

I don't want to get into an argument with you about refrigerators. anybody who wants to learn about it can google and read the wiki. They all use pressurized fluids as coolant. Talk about open vs closed systems all you want, it's not relevant.

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

That's a long winded way of talking around the fact that you were wrong:

pressurized fluids are indeed used as coolants, and oil is used as a coolant in jet engines.

I don't want to get into an argument with you about refrigerators. anybody who wants to learn about it can google and read the wiki. They all use pressurized fluids as coolant. Talk about open vs closed systems all you want, it's not relevant.

You really can't tread the straight path, can you?

To make my point again, since you fail to understand the courteous and detailed response I gave you, oil is not used as a coolant in refrigerators or in jet aircraft.

The coolant in refrigerators have unique properties that render the Gay Lussac's law incidental.

I also clarified to you that your use of refrigerators in the conversation is inappropriate because;

< jet engines are open systems which means new air is constantly being put into the system to cool non-engine auxiliary systems. The jet engines do not require cooling because of the high temp metal alloys that are used and because high temperatures are needed to create thrust.
< the differentials between compressed and pre-compressed freon type gas is insignificant and that the purpose is to move gas through the system. Both compressed and pre-compressed refrigerant gases are at least -40C


You colleague's arguments are defective and you seem to have trouble understanding elementary science. How can you possibly comment on 9/11 issues when you have this short-coming?

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
You really can't tread the straight line, can you?

I guess we'll see.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
To make my point again, since you fail to understand the courteous and detailed response I gave you, oil is not used as a coolant in refrigerators or in jet aircraft.

Here's another quote from an exxon-mobil publication concerning oil in jet engines.

Key Fact The circulating jet oil has as its important functions: 90 percent to transfer calories, 5–10 percent to reduce friction, 2–3 percent to seal, to circulate contaminates to catchment devices and to protect against corrosion.

link
A calorie is "The energy needed to increase the temperature of a given mass of water by 1 °C at atmospheric pressure." it's a unit of energy... so we can see that according to industry publications, oil in jet engines is used mainly to transfer energy.

Here's another quote from a request for proposals from myninesigma.com

Gas turbine engine lubricants function mainly as heat transfer agents. They remove heat from the engine's bearings and gears...

link



Here's a website for a company that sells oil coolers for jet engines.

So who are we supposed to believe? You, or industry publications that say the exact opposite.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
< the differentials between compressed and pre-compressed freon type gas is insignificant and that the purpose is to move gas through the system. Both compressed and pre-compressed refrigerant gases are at least -40C

You're wrong. There's a coil on most refrigerators, a winding tube visible on the back-- it contains freon, which must be warmer than room temperature, to transfer heat out of the refrigerator. additionally, if it were -40C don't you think it would be covered over with frost all the time? At the very least, it would be covered in condensed water.

It's exactly by compressing gas to heat it that all heat pumps work.

Here's an explanation from how stuff works:

First, a compressor in your air conditioner compresses cold Freon gas. A small amount of oil is combined with the Freon gas to lubricate the compressor. When the Freon gas is compressed, its pressure rises, making it very hot. Next, the hot Freon gas moves through a series of coils, which has the effect of lowering its heat and converting it to liquid. The Freon liquid then flows through an expansion valve, which causes it to cool down until it evaporates. The result is low-pressure Freon gas. The cold gas is then channeled through another set of coils. This allows the gas to absorb heat and lower the air inside the room or building.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
< jet engines are open systems which means new air is constantly being put into the system to cool non-engine auxiliary systems.

Refrigerators are open systems too... the heat is transfered to the room air. What of it. Again this has no relevance to the discussion. Refrigerators are only an obvious example of the use of pressurized fluids in a cooling system.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
you seem to have trouble understanding elementary science. How can you possibly comment on 9/11 issues when you have this short-coming?

I've provided links and quotes from reliable sources which directly support my point, and you've provided irrelevant images, and don't understand heat pumps. Who exactly is the ignorant one here?

reply to post by DrEugeneFixer


I am trying to help you and you throw it back at my face. You are resistant to common sense, science and the truth. This truly saddens me.

Even worse, you have caused a small side matter to become so conflated, you have railroaded the discussion of 9/11 being an inside job.

So sad, too bad

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


so it looks like you have conceded the point, since you have not rebutted any of my arguments or evidence....

Oil is used as a coolant in jet turbine engines.

As for this being a side issue, you are the one who decided to take the time to contest this fact.

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by MI5edtoDeath

 

so it looks like you have conceded the point, since you have not rebutted any of my arguments or evidence....

Oil is used as a coolant in jet turbine engines.

As for this being a side issue, you are the one who decided to take the time to contest this fact.

We both know I am correct. This is all I require. You conceded your arguments a long time ago, before I started commenting on 9/11 threads.

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


Actually, we both know you were just making up stories when you first said that oil is not used to cool jet turbine engines.

Otherwise you would be citing sources or at least rebutting my arguments.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

I am trying to help you and you throw it back at my face. You are resistant to common sense, science and the truth.This truly saddens me.

I too am trying to help you and you throw it back at my face. You are resistant to common sense, science and the truth. This makes me laugh.

The oil is under pressure, it is used as a lubricant and coolant. It is also used to heat the jet fuel. Oil is the most likely source of the vapour trail.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong ?


So what made you decide to pick up the pitchfork and join the witch hunt ?