Does one have the right to be selfish?

reply to post by ottobot


Well since killing yourself can be considered selfish, I don't think we have found the best summary of complete selflessness.

To judge someone's actions as selfish or selfless we of course have to know their intent. For all we know Mother Teresa said she acted on her own behalf as a guise to keep people from stopping her acts of selflessness.

I think that, logically, the most selfless act would be to help others flourish as much as possible but I could be wrong.

reply to post by Bleeeeep

By helping others others flourish, you are increasing their chance of survival, and your own.

Let's try this one. You are young and healthy, and your grandmother is near the end of her life. You love her very dearly. Now a mugger shoots at her. Do you push her out of the way and take the bullet? And, would you consider your choice to be a selfless/selfish act?

Highlight for spoiler: [color=414141]I would not take the bullet, and I would consider it a selfish act.

reply to post by socialist


If I'm ever lucky enough to be a Grandma, I would want my Grandchild to live before myself...

reply to post by WWu777


If and when we don't take proper care of number one, then we can't be helpful or as helpful to others. Self love and selfishness is essential to eventually being of great service, because then you know the immense value of the other person. To be selfish doesn't automatically mean we are uncaring or uncompassionate towards others. It's a good thing to care for one's self. Selflessness, if at the expense of self is never wise or just. We also deserve as much as we give of ourself to others, to give equally and liberally to ourselves, which further improves our capacity to be helpful to others in turn. It's selfish selflessness. They go hand in hand, because of our deep and largely unmet desire to love and be loved. It's when people go inward with it at the expense of being giving of themselves in relation to others that "selfishness" is a problem, in which case it's really nothing more than infanitle insecurity complex that must have the bigger Tonka Toy.

reply to post by socialist


Is that a loaded question?

If I do nothing I'm selfish and if I save her then I'm still selfish cause I acted on behalf of my selfish desire to save the one I love?

If you make granny the shooter would I be selfish or selfless by stopping granny from killing the robber?

Both questions are irrelevant. To know the answer you must know the intent.

I had a bad day. I wish more people were what you are considering to be selfish, because they are a lot more fun to hang out with and be friends with. They still have the drive of youth in them.

reply to post by darkbake


LOL...yeah those "pesky" kids, families and friends that reguire us to be "unselfish" and give up the follies of our youth, can lead to a "bad" day now and then.......:

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by socialist

 

If I'm ever lucky enough to be a Grandma, I would want my Grandchild to live before myself...

Ditto, I'd totally knock the kid down and cover him/her with my own body. There's no question about this. I'd do this for any loved one, though.

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by ottobot

 

Well since killing yourself can be considered selfish, I don't think we have found the best summary of complete selflessness.

There is no such thing as complete selflessness in human nature. To be selfless, one must also be selfish to some degree (helping others helps oneself just as helping self can help others).

However, it does work the opposite way: To be completely selfish, one cannot be at all selfless.

To judge someone's actions as selfish or selfless we of course have to know their intent. For all we know Mother Teresa said she acted on her own behalf as a guise to keep people from stopping her acts of selflessness.

What's the point in judging anyone else's actions? Realistically, we all need to be worried about our own actions and their potential effects in the world around us.

I was just using Mother Teresa as an example. I don't think she was being selfish in a negative way. She was using her selfishness ("I want") as a tool to aid others ("I want to help them"). I think that is perfectly fine.

I think that, logically, the most selfless act would be to help others flourish as much as possible but I could be wrong.

Again, though, are you helping others flourish because "you want" to help them flourish? Or, because "you want" to feel good about helping them flourish? Or, because "you want" other people to think you are a good person?

It really doesn't matter in the long run. What matters is that you've helped others.

It really all fits together.

As I've said - one must be both selfish and selfless to survive and flourish.

Originally posted by darkbake
I had a bad day. I wish more people were what you are considering to be selfish, because they are a lot more fun to hang out with and be friends with. They still have the drive of youth in them.

edit on 22-5-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

If you want your friends to be youthful, you should help them to be youthful. Take them out to do something fun and make a point not to talk about anything worrisome.

reply to post by WWu777


Dear WWu777,
I do hope you get help for your girlfriends son asap.. I fear if not he could ruin her like my brother has ruined my parents. He's actually been that way from little until now past his 20s. He is the example of a child abusing a parent, and its not a joke, its a real thing. People just always hear it the other way around and act as if a kid can not 'abuse' the parents but Oh boy can they. My parents have lost everything to their son acting that way, jobs, house, cars, their damn minds! They are depressed and I have never seen them this way and I would do anything for them to smile again. For them to be going through this when their child is 20, 21 next month, it is sad and I press you to get help for him asap and teach him better soon, because if he keeps on he seems like the perfect and exact precursor to my brothers situation dictating every aspect of my parents lifes. Stop it now before you get where we are.

Originally posted by ottobot

Originally posted by darkbake
I had a bad day. I wish more people were what you are considering to be selfish, because they are a lot more fun to hang out with and be friends with. They still have the drive of youth in them.

edit on 22-5-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

If you want your friends to be youthful, you should help them to be youthful. Take them out to do something fun and make a point not to talk about anything worrisome.

That's some good advice, thanks. I really appreciate it.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by darkbake

 

LOL...yeah those "pesky" kids, families and friends that reguire us to be "unselfish" and give up the follies of our youth, can lead to a "bad" day now and then.......

:

I know, right? Lolz I was having an off day. Someone picked up on the youthful part of this, though and gave me some good advice.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by darkbake

 

LOL...yeah those "pesky" kids, families and friends that reguire us to be "unselfish" and give up the follies of our youth, can lead to a "bad" day now and then.......

:

I know, right? Lolz I was having an off day. Someone picked up on the youthful part of this, though and gave me some good advice.

Originally posted by KurdishKing
When people ask for favours or anything, you would feel obligated to help and when you have helped them out.......going out of your way to help then that person turns his/her back on your when they reach the top.
I have had this happened to me on number of occasions and i can tell you its not satisfying.

When does someone that helps knows he has done a good deed or he was stupid enough to be played?

What I hear you saying is that when helping others, there is an unspoken contract that they will help you in your time of need. And I agree 100%. Too many times I've helped the same person over and over and over, but when I needed help, that person was not there for me.

There's a difference between helping people out and being an enabler. If they know that someone's always there for them, they won't grow up.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


i think to be selfish is to cut yourself off in a way, you may get wealth you may think you are happy but your heart is not true to your self being if you are like this! but if the lights go out all of a sudden im sure there will be allot more silfish people out there!

reply to post by darkbake


Remember how FUN Summer Vacation used to be as a kid? All you had to do everyday is wake up and decide what cool thing you were going to do that day. lol, hmmmm, should I go ride my bike, go swimming, play with other kids, read, draw, watch t.v....soo many cool things and "I" could do what ever "I" wanted....weeeee

But then.....what would happen? By the end of Summer we were ready to go back to school in our spiffy new school clothes and "conform" and cooperate with others...lol...most of us anyways....I liked school for the most part.

For a vast variety of reasons many people feel overwelmed with responsibilities they have as "grown-ups" , and without enough "fun" in our lives it takes it toll......so I agree you were given good advice. LOL, as much as I can be capable of "giving" to others , I am also capable of having outright temper tantrums...so it's a balancing act....

Originally posted by WWu777
Question:

Does one have the right to be selfish? Why does society act as though one were obligated to be unselfish? It's not possible to force someone to care about others if he doesn't right? Isn't this an unrealistic expectation?

Besides, isn't it wrong to force someone to compromise or sacrifice his interests, life, freedom, resources, needs, etc. for the benefit of others? What if he doesn't want to? Why should he force himself to do something he doesn't want to do? Especially if these "others" don't include his friends or family.

Isn't is self-destructive to be too selfless and only care about others but not about yourself? If so, why doesn't society consider that a bad thing too?

Key point: If everyone wants you to do something that you don't, should you give in, or should you listen to yourself and be selfish? Is one obligated to do something one doesn't want to do, just because everyone else says so?

IM(humble)O ~ we have the free-will to choose selfishness ...it doesn't make it right or wrong. it's an experience that perhaps some souls need to experience, while others may not.

reply to post by ottobot


The point in judging others is to learn about ourselves and to know if we should intervene or not. I think that judging someone can only be justifiably done so by understanding their intent. e.g. Imprisoning someone is wrong but if our intent is to imprison them to prevent them from killing others then our intent justifies our action and should be considered to be a selfless act because we do it not for ourselves but for those who would die if we did nothing.

Originally posted by ottobot
"one must be both selfish and selfless to survive and flourish".

I think that you come to this conclusion based on what man has shown to be and not what they can be. I gave examples of how someone could be selfless or selfish and still flourish, but since I don't see any way that we can come to an agreement on this premise, I am going to have to retire from debating it.

Yes that is the ONLY natural right you have is to be selfish. Being selfish leads to your survival, and to reproduction.

One of the most selfish acts a human can commit is having sex. You have sex solely for your own pleasure. Coincidentally, this selfish act also leads to babies.

So I would argue you are SUPPOSED to be selfish. Anyone who tries to tell you they aren't selfish are either full of crap, or they've never gotten laid.