how to live free, can we do it?

HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE : i am proposing an idea and see how it would work or not. doesnt matter you are in business or employment or unemployed, we all face the same thing. which is money. with money there is issue with having enough or not, rich and poor, healthcare, education, welfrare, benefits, etc etc.. thats all what the gov and politician keeps talking about but yet not interested to solve anything.

suppose everyone is given a choice, what would you propose in order to solve the problem? heres what i will do, whats important in life is actually a few things, it is electricity, water, food, shelter, healthcare and education

i know everyone hates paying electricity bill, what we actually need to do is identify several criteria that generate electricity to the people, im not talking about green energy it doesnt matter. suppose, in a country we are dependent on coal to generate electricity, what actually need to identify so that everyone gets free electricity is we need to own the land which has coal, the next is own the coal mining factory, own the coal processing, own the construction company that build the power plant, own supplier that builds the national grid, etc.. all from top to bottom of the chain.

if the case i mentioned everything is owned by single entity why it would make sense we need to pay for electricity again? i know there are people always say company needs profit and have maintainence, the actual problem is not money, but the infrastructure design from top to bottom either is most efficient or not, and the quality of material used either last for a long time etc, then if it indeed requires human labour, we implement automation to get rid of manpower.

what we see here is we'll get entire electricity infrastructure in a country fully automated and maintainence less. we owned the whole thing and it will no need require any customer or people to pay for electricity. repeat the same thing on water, food, shelter, healthcare, and education sector, could we have live free? can we do it?


frequently asked question

Question : What happen to humans if all the productions can get rid of manpower? The world will be run by automatic systems and we will be kicked out. This doesn't sound like freedom.

Answer : you & everyone else is owner of this automated production, who is kicking you out? last time ive checked its not freedom when everybody needs to foot their bills..



Question : No..... for example someone will have to pay for the upkeep of this infrastructure therefore it's never 'free'. Nice idea but the devil is in the detail and it's totally unrealistic imo. People don't do things for nothing in this world, the human mindset is evolved to think of #1 first and there's very few people (if any) in the world that are 100% selfless.....therefore someone somewhere will always lose out with ideas reliant on community participation.


Answer : i already said, need of maintainence or upkeep is matter of infrastructure design & engineering method. we need to remove those inefficiency and the goal is maintanence less and full automation, nobody needs to bother with this infrastructure later because it is self running and nobody needs to pay for it later. and why people wont participate in this kind of idea? werent theres plenty of people hate about keep doing the same job/thing over and over again? the real job suppose to get it done so that we dont have to do it again not otherwise

reply to post by korgmeister

if the case i mentioned everything is owned by single entity why it would make sense we need to pay for electricity again?

Sounds like Communism to me...that didn't work out so well....

Could also describe Socialism, they have a lot of it in Europe, with things like Utilities, etc. Thing is, SOMEONE has to pay for it, and that someone is the common taxpayer. So, takes are much higher with Socialism, because there isn't a private competitor trying to do it faster, smarter, cheaper, etc.

That's why Capitalism works. Unlike other systems, there is motivation for change and innovation.

Until we have unlimited resources (i.e. interplanetary travel), there will be competition for existing resources, and differences between the haves and have nots. Simple as that. With interplanetary travel, we could tap a whole world for anything we need, and likely robots to do menial tasks, etc. But until we get there, we're going to find ways to decide who gets what, and currently, that deciding factor is money and power.

I hate to break it to you all but we're screwed. You would need 2 generations of educated people (actual education not public school daycare and gen-pop). The republic/delegates/representatives could then be removed and most of the corruption would cease. With uneducated people though, it would quickly descend in to war and famine.

reply to post by korgmeister


I think the answer lies in robotics. If someone is able to make a robot that can perform every movement that a human can and said robot ran on a sustainable portable energy source then a free society is possible.

I do not believe the powers that be would actually allow that to happen though.

Ill simplify it for you all!

What do you want?

here are your options:
1. More power to the government let them make the choices for you and let them decide how your money should be sent by. More rules and regulations (Democrats)
2. More power to the people. More power to local and state government, where the individual has more voice. Less taxes and government programs. Less oversight and regulation. (Republicans)


Its really that simple. Thats it.

Let the mud throwing begin.

Originally posted by kellynap43
Ill simplify it for you all!

What do you want?

here are your options:
1. More power to the government let them make the choices for you and let them decide how your money should be sent by. More rules and regulations (Democrats)
2. More power to the people. More power to local and state government, where the individual has more voice. Less taxes and government programs. Less oversight and regulation. (Republicans)


Its really that simple. Thats it.

Let the mud throwing begin.

unfortunatly the OP did not state what part of our world he or she calls home. By the broken english used to bring their thoughts to light I am going to guess it is outside of the United States. Therefore your Democrat vs. Republican analogy, as lame as it is, will be lost on the OP. If he or she is lucky

Personally what I gleaned from the OPs premise is a positive message. It shows someone who wants to live in a world of cooperation and mutual sharing. As simplistic as the OPs ideas may seem to you all they show someone who has a good heart and optimism for the future. It is by and large a positive thought provoking message. The type of message that should be built up and not torn down.

Thumbs up to you OP!

reply to post by grubblesnert


Sharing? Of course. You and him would love to take from other people what you havent earned. One word for that. Pathetic.

And "Lame"? I think is how you described my last post. Of course you could not use facts and figures, that is above you isnt it?

Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by grubblesnert

 

Sharing? Of course. You and him would love to take from other people what you havent earned. One word for that. Pathetic.

And "Lame"? I think is how you described my last post. Of course you could not use facts and figures, that is above you isnt it?

why, and more to the point, how does one go about presenting "facts and figures" to debate your obvious prejudiced opinion which contains neither "fact" or "figure"?

Why do you get so upset over the OP sharing his/her altruistic, albiet, simplistic desire for equity and equality among human beings?

Why do you so zealously toe the party line, for either of the corrupt political parties be it democrat or republican?
Have you ever questioned your own beliefs, or felt like you might be prejudiced against a better world?
(God knows the present system ain't workin' to well!)
Have you ever considered that you, more than likely, may have a prejudice based on fear and MSM brainwashing?
Are you a Fox CNN or MSNBC man ?
(I'm guessing Fox)
Do you realize there are different places with different people who have different perspectives than just you & me in the "good ole' US of A"? and that some of these people have better perspectives and ideas and live better lives than you probably comprehend.
Please take some time to consider these questions as valid and not just an argumentive rebuttal. An opening of your mind would help everyone in our shared world.

Peace and light to you my brother

reply to post by grubblesnert



Republican = Less Government
Democrat = More Government
These are facts. That most anybody will verify. Well skip that for now.

The solution is not within parties or within the government. It’s within each one of us. We need to start to look inward and see what we can do on our own to help ourselves and contribute. Stop making excuses, stop expecting handouts, stop complaining. Get off our butts and work. Every man/woman is in charge of their own destiny. Maybe a little cliché, but very true.

This system works when people work with it. When people work within and stay with it.
Only when you start to reward apathy and laziness, the system fails. Wonder why you think its not working..... there you go. Only 48% of americans actually pay taxes.(FACT) it might be 49%. Instead of making the other 48% pay more out, why not have the over 52% pay in?

Is the system perfect, heck no. But what is the alternative. Socialism? Communism? Totalitarianism? A dictatorship? If you have even remotely studied history or current events, you will notice this systems of government have failed miserably. I guess China is successful, but ask the people there if they are happy or the human rights are something to brag about. Lol
My source of information is my Masters degree and my ability to learn and find answers. Where does your sources come from?


Think this country is so awful? I have had the luxury of traveling to several countries in my life time. Mostly for missionary work but sometimes for business and leisure. Bet you cant guess the number one country everybody else is envious of and wants to go to? Give you a hint, its south of Canada

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reply to post by kellynap43
Well I must say your latest response seems a bit more thought out. However your need to trot out your master's degree and missionary credentials tells something about where your perspective comes from.
You are a product of institutional learning and religious indoctrination.
I am going to venture a guess you are an american college grad and were involved in christian missionary work. Being a product of those two dogmas does not foster open and free thought. Group think comes to mind.
I am self tought and cotinually self teaching. My highest level of education will, hopefully, never be attained. My spiritual journey will ,likewise, hopefuly never cease. I condemn any religion that teaches intolerance or the "only through me/us" restriction on talking with god or attaining enlightenment. I am an avid historian and at this point in my life getting old enough to actually be a walking history book, having been alive and paying attention during many important events in modern world history.
I do not think the US is "awful" I think our corrupt goverment is. I think all corrupt goverments are.
People are good. My part of the world is good. but neither the democratic or republican party is good. As a matter of fact I think, by and large along with other more powerful entities, they are the root of our misery and suffering.
you and I are slaves to the "industrial military complex" and the world banking system. Our children are their soldiers and consumers.
You are their willing spokesperson. A self regulating wage slave,( if you are not a wage slave then you are among the rich and possibly elite and part of the enslavement, either way) you are expounding a false philosophy. Educated and endoctrinated via TV, main stream religion, and political brainwashing. The perfect "Consumer American" You can change, you can become enlightened. you can see past your blinders!
By learning, loving and keeping an open curious mind you will be a benifit to all humankind.
no more "us and them" it's time to evolve my friend!

reply to post by nerbot


Down in the park
Where the Machmen meet
The machines are playing `kill-by-numbers'
Down in the park with a friend called `Five'

^Your post immediately brought this to mind^
lyrics from: Gary Numan "down in the park" from the album "Replicas" ca.1977 (i think?)
* my favorite musician with a Moog*
Of course with the way your brain seems to be working you might know that already

Originally posted by kellynap43

Sharing? Of course. You and him would love to take from other people what you havent earned. One word for that. Pathetic.

And "Lame"? I think is how you described my last post. Of course you could not use facts and figures, that is above you isnt it?

first of all i am proposing liberalizing the essential and needs, it has nothing to do with want. for eg like basic electricity, water, etc..

when you have completely fully automated infrastrucutre we're simply taking from the robots, and thats precisely robot dont need our money.

if you think taking something which you havent earned is pathetic, consider this. a big corporation dig up all those oil/resource from underground and do they pay the money to earth after extract those oil for profit? do fisherman dump the money under the sea after they caught fish? its all given by nature and we as human taking it for free. and if human is so intelligence and brilliant, do we sign a contract with earth and then proceed to create property law to define this land belong to who? we take all the land & resource from earth for granted and its free, yet the "educated" people create papers, proclamation & laws to prevent others from access it, who is more pathetic?