Prediction - This is how the Empire will Fall

They cannot and will not stop spending because they have to borrow the money they spend. Loans are the main way they create this money from nothing in the current Kaynesian fiat monetary system AND THIS IS WHAT THEY CALL GROWTH OR EXPANSION OF THE ECONOMY. If they cut spending it will all collapse and they know it. it will collapse anyway but continuing to take out loans and spending more they postpone the collapse. However the longer they postpone they worse the collapse will be.

Eventually they debase the currency until it is worthless. In other words you can only create money from nothing for so long until its value is so diluted it is worthless. Its like knowing there is a limit on your credit card and being close to that limit and instead of cutting it off now and living within your means you continue to charge it up and live the good life till you are cut off then everything gets repossessed.

It is clear they have no intention of trying to fix this and soft land the crash they only want to postpone it as long as they can. They are pedal to the metal till the wheels fall off!

Bring it on!

If Obama were to promote the idea of the US bailing out the EU, it would be political suicide for him. We are in enough debt as it is, and we don't need to contribute to the same mess that sank our economy in 2008. Sure, he'd probably make a convincing, and charming statement about why the US should help, and I'm sure some people would be convinced (can you say baa baa?), but that doesn't make up for the fact that those governments are spending way outside of their means.

I say let the EU banks fail, like we should have done in the US. I didn't get a bailout when I lost most of my college tuition in a high-stakes poker game. I rolled with the punches and dealt with it.

I just hope that our brothers and sisters in Europe are more defiant than my counterparts here in the states. Our complacency led to our economic ruin. Don't let yours ruin the EU. Force your collective governments to start ending tax shelters for the wealthiest companies in the world. Make those companies pay what they should have been paying all along.

I say let the whole system collapse on itself and rebuild it better. It's about time that everybody, including world governments learned a thing or two about budgeting, like the people that they supposedly represent. Bring all the troops home, cut defense spending, tax the hell out of corporations that are sending labor overseas with at least a 70% tarriff, and force bankers and investors to take the hit when they lose in their imaginary market. No more bailouts on the already exhausted taxpayers' backs.

It's about time for a global economic revolution.


(oh, and OP, if this turns out to be true, I'll give you a share of my chocolate ration.... )


-TS

reply to post by seabag


I'll start with your mention of "socialism".

This is the problem here, too many people are calling everything an ism because it's easy for them to do.

In the UK we have a conservative government, Cameron has advised spending to bailout Greece (he hasn't said that exactly, but it's obvious what he means when he says that the nations of the Eurozone have to help each other to grow out of this problem). Cameron himself is against government spending to grow out of our own problems. In the UK, government spending is a drop in the ocean compared to the banking debt of this country. That is what they are not telling us.

Lets also remember that Bush, a conservative, started the bailing out in the US. That is socialism for the bankers. Obama is planning Austerity cuts too, that is conservatism.

The labels of socialism, communism, capitalism... none of them means anything anymore. You have socialism when it benefits the wealthy, capitalism for the poor, it makes no difference who is in power or what their political opinions are, they are all owned and follow instruction.

Secondly, on your opinion that spending is not valid...

If the wealth of the people is being extracted from your country, the money is remaining in the upper economy (the banks and corporations), how is a nation supposed to grow through austerity alone? I agree that cuts need to be made, but the fundamental problem of wealth extraction has not been fixed.

People are still shopping at a corporate chain, that money is leaving their community and being hoarded or spent only in the upper economy.

For example...
If you buy from a chain, that money then leaves your state/city for a bank account in the Camen Islands. That money is then shared out in percentages, say 40% goes to paying staff, 10% goes to paying the CEO and senior staff, 20% goes to investors and stock holders, 20% goes to the continuation of business (stock etc), 5% goes into holding, 5% goes into paying taxes.
Only 40% has gone back to the floor in the form of wages and is back in any community, thinned out across a larger area. Now imagine that over the course of decades, with thousands of corporate businesses doing exactly the same.

This is one of the fundamental causes of the economic inequality. Money and wealth is systematically stripped out of the communities and funneled upward. Over a couple of decades, that wealth extraction becomes a major problem for the communities where investment is not present.

So, now you have entire communities where companies will not invest, where banks will not release loans for small business to grow, where people only have their state benefits to live on. Unemployment is rising, homelessness increasing, crime rates going up, policing being cut, education being cut, medical services being cut, charities struggling...

Without spending anything, how do you encourage economic growth in those areas? Do you ask businesses to invest, politely request that bankers start lending again? Well, that's worked remarkably well so far!

In my opinion, we need a good mix of austerity (to include government wages and corporate taxation!) a share of reasonable spending in the right places, and new measures to prevent the ongoing extraction of wealth.

Ultimately, it won't make a lot of difference, because like you I believe that we are heading into the endgame and any fixes we put in place now are nothing more than sticking plasters on a decapitation. There is a massive implosion coming.

As for when that comes, I think it's a little too unpredictable to say. Many of us thought it would have happened by now, but governments keep creating spectacular new ways to keep the game going for a little bit longer. Even if it means just printing more money, that's not beyond the realms of possibility.

We know that another bailout of Greece is plausible, and we know that Spain and Italy are likely to need the same. No one can afford that, unless they start the printing presses to do it. If it means covering up the collapse for another six months I really wouldn't put it past them.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the governments will do whatever it takes to keep the game going. They've basically said that this is the plan. I think it's going to be the people making that decision for them. Greece is now doing that, making demands of their government to end it.

I think we'll see a revolution in Europe, in Spain, Italy, Greece and France. And I think that will cause the implosion of the global banking system, spreading the collapse to the US.

I guess we'll have to wait and see when that happens. It could be this summer, but they could get away with another temporary measure and delay it again.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Thanks for the response....

In the UK we have a conservative government, Cameron has advised spending to bailout Greece (he hasn't said that exactly, but it's obvious what he means when he says that the nations of the Eurozone have to help each other to grow out of this problem).

Cameron isn’t a conservative…

Lets also remember that Bush, a conservative, started the bailing out in the US.

Bush isn’t a conservative…

Maybe you should research conservatism a bit before you draw comparisons.

If the wealth of the people is being extracted from your country, the money is remaining in the upper economy (the banks and corporations), how is a nation supposed to grow through austerity alone? I agree that cuts need to be made, but the fundamental problem of wealth extraction has not been fixed.

As I stated before, austerity comes in many forms. The bottom line is that US wouldn’t be in the situation we’re in if not for the fact that our government spends more than it takes in…hence the problem. The way to fix that is to stop spending so much and live within our means, which includeds cutting subsidies to large corporation.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the governments will do whatever it takes to keep the game going. They've basically said that this is the plan. I think it's going to be the people making that decision for them. Greece is now doing that, making demands of their government to end it.

I think we'll see a revolution in Europe, in Spain, Italy, Greece and France. And I think that will cause the implosion of the global banking system, spreading the collapse to the US.

I think you’re right. If something doesn’t change the course we’re on then the whole house of cards these crooks have built on our backs will come crashing down.

Maybe it needs too.........

reply to post by seabag


David Cameron is the party leader of the conservative party, thus he is a conservative. Even if he doesn't follow the conservative policies, he is still a conservative because he leads the conservative party.

To me, he is typicaly conservative, splitting unions, business minded, loves private sector and plans to increase the private sector, to me this is typical conservatism. Leave it for business to sort out the problems of the country, and if that fails, privatise more to gain quick bucks, in the hope that the (going to use roads as an example) private owners will invest more into maintinance and that all will be perky.....untill they charge the hell out of us (im looking at you, network rail).

Thatcher 2.0

reply to post by Trolloks

David Cameron is the party leader of the conservative party, thus he is a conservative. Even if he doesn't follow the conservative policies, he is still a conservative because he leads the conservative party.

He can call himself whatever he likes but just because he’s able to fool his constituents doesn’t means I’m going to buy it!

He’s the only conservative I see calling for more spending…does that sound conservative to you?

To me, he is typicaly conservative, splitting unions, business minded, loves private sector and plans to increase the private sector, to me this is typical conservatism. Leave it for business to sort out the problems of the country, and if that fails, privatise more to gain quick bucks, in the hope that the (going to use roads as an example) private owners will invest more into maintinance and that all will be perky.....untill they charge the hell out of us (im looking at you, network rail).

That’s sounds a little more conservative but countries can’t SPEND their way out of problems. Conservatives are for smaller government and less interference in the private market. I don’t think anyone would accuse Cameron or Bush of that, do you? They’ve both grown government.

Thanks for the response!

They want the world economy to collapse and are working very hard at bringing that about.Then they will use that as the launching pad to introduce a world currency which they will claim will be more stable.The exchange rate wont be 1:1 it will be more like 100:1 or even 1000:1, that`s why there has been such a rush to make mega profits by the banksters and CEO`s and other 1%ers. These record profits will keep them in the 1% even after exchanging them at a 100:1 exchange ratio (100 U.S. dollars for 1 world currency dollar)
The only way they can introduce a world currency and have people accept it is to first trash all the current currencies being used.

reply to post by seabag

Good post and assessment on the threat of "derivative-timebombs" waiting to blow up TBTFs and the whole global financial system with them. A derivatives market collapse is more dangerous than iranian nukes right now.
And of course proper austerity measures are a question of finding the right balance, just like it always is with governmental regulations.

Originally posted by seabag
Who will pay when they (JPM) lose [...]? AMERICAN TAXPAYER WILL!!!!

HOW and WHY??

That's THE question of our times and the whole crisis I think.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Can we elect Germany's chancellor?

No you can't. We still need her here.

Just FYI:
Our Chancellor Merkel is a double-edged sword for most Germans at the moment.
You have to accredit her overall successful domestic fical results and also parts of her foreign policy, but she tied her fate to the €uro and this is probably going to cost her the 2013 elections.
I absolutely dislike her stance towards the €uro.
After all, the concept of the €uroZone itself is a big part of the current european offshoots of the global financial crisis.