US Planes Are Almost Defensless From Chinese Suprise Missile Attack

Originally posted by KilrathiLG
not to informed on chinese missiles so i apologize if this is a well known thing but its called a anti ship BALLISTIC missile implying that on radar it would look and appear as if china has launched a possible icbm? is that not the same problem we are running into with our new hypersonic missile that is supposed to be able to strike any where on the globe but with non nuclear war heads but the problem again being russia and china might mistake it for a icbm launch so we would have to inform them beforehand and then they would have to trust us that it isnt an icbm? so i may be wrong here but would not launching what looks like a nuke in a tense situation possibly have far worse outcomes then launching say a standard anti ship missile?

You are correct.

One of the many possible faults of the DF-21d is what happens when U.S. Air Force Space Command identifies a ballistic missile launch and plot its trajectory towards a U.S. carrier group?

Regardless, I will believe China has the capability when I see a practical demonstration.

There are tremendous technological and logistical challenges to overcome, when the current, proven and deployed, USN anti-ballistic missile and counter measure capabilities are considered this system is not the insurmountable carrier denial game-changer some have been lead to believe.

I think if US planes stay out of Chinese airspace unless they have explicit permission to be there, then they shouldn't have anything to worry about.

reply to post by yourmaker


China is focusing on Asym warfare with its anti carrier and anti satellite missiles. That is their new future direction and doctrine dude. US will be stomped out.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


Here is a paper from the U.S. Naval War College discussing the DF-21d in some detail. Anybody with a real interest in the topic should read what the author has to say...

CHINA’S ANTISHIP BALLISTIC MISSILE/Developments and Missing Links

China’s pursuit of an antiship ballistic missile (ASBM) has been called a potential “game changer,” a weapon that could single-handedly shift the strategic balance with the United States.

A retired U.S. Navy rear admiral asserted as early as 2005 that an ASBM capability could represent “the strategic equivalent of China’s acquiring nuclear weapons in 1964.”

Whether or not this is accurate,an effective ASBM capability would undoubtedly constitute a formidable antiaccess weapon against the U.S. Navy in the western Pacific, particularly during a conflict over Taiwan.

However, as the Chinese literature demonstrates, it would mean more than that.

Fully operational ASBM capability along with essential C4ISR (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance) support would be a barometer of China’s greater military modernization effort, a potential instrument for regional strategic ambitions,and perhaps an important element in tipping the long-term maritime strategic balance with respect to the United States.

Some other comments on the topic..
How to Kill China’s ‘Carrier-Killer’ Missile: Jam, Spoof and Shoot

China has developed a missile that would turn an aircraft carrier into a two-billion-dollar hulk of twisted metal, flame, and dead sailors. Publicly, the U.S. Navy downplays its importance. Privately, the sailors are working out several different options to kill it before it kills them.

Adm. Jonathan Greenert, the Navy’s top officer, explained to reporters during a Friday breakfast meeting that the Navy has ways of exploiting some of the DF-21D missile’s formidable technical capabilities, even before opening fire and praying.

As Greenert sees it, there’s a menu of options. Some involve convincing the DF-21D that the carrier is in a different place. Others involve masking the electronic emissions of the carrier. Still others are more traditional — like blasting the missile out of the salty air....

..The Navy conceded in December 2010 that the DF-21D had reached “initial operating capability.” But its intelligence chief quickly added that blowing up a carrier is still past China’s means. Hitting a moving object is difficult. Testing the thing at sea is too. Then China needs to integrate the missile into its general surface warfare plans. And after all that come the countermeasures Greenert outlined. Solving all that takes time.

And while China works on that, the Navy will continue its own development. If Greenert is freaked out by a weapon that can punch through one of the most potent symbols of American power, he’s doing a good job of hiding it in public.
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DF-21 Delta: Some Early Thoughts

The so-called DF-21D is much in the news recently, mostly because it hasn’t shown up yet. It is reputed to be the anti-ship version of China’s short-range workhorse, the DF-21. (China uses some version or other of the DF-21 for short-range ballistic missiles, anti-satellite weapons, and ballistic missile defense.) I thought I’d start the analytical discussion of this virtual missile by making some simple calculations about what sort of transverse accelerations its terminal phase guidance and control systems are going to need...

...These rather simple calculations have shown that both types of guidance and control for an anti-ship ballistic missile are possible. But both would be pushing China’s technology considerably. For instance, China can most likely build mid-infrared detectors for military space applications. These might be used for their missile defense interceptor, even though they are barely applicable for anti-satellite weapons. Could they be used for an anti-ship application? Possibly. They could certainly see through most clouds so cloud cover is not an issue. But it would take more thought than I have given it to know that it could discriminate between a ship and the ocean. Radars, which with their limited range would require aerodynamic maneuvering, seem even more problematic because of the need to control large accelerations.

So, while I cannot rule out the DF-21D on first principles, it would need a sustained test and evaluation program no matter what technology it used. I, for one, am unaware of China undertaking such an extensive test program.

If the Americans go to war with China, they're going to have a lot more support than ATS seems to think. First off there's India, who have been itching to kick China around lately. The Chinese know that India is the only nation that can stand up to them on pure population terms. Russia is another major player. Everyone seems to think China and Russia are all friendly all of a sudden, but that's quite wrong. After the Sino-Soviet Split, they've been eying each other across the borders.

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
If the Americans go to war with China, they're going to have a lot more support than ATS seems to think. First off there's India, who have been itching to kick China around lately. The Chinese know that India is the only nation that can stand up to them on pure population terms. Russia is another major player. Everyone seems to think China and Russia are all friendly all of a sudden, but that's quite wrong. After the Sino-Soviet Split, they've been eying each other across the borders.

You think india would attack china facing the possibility that pakistan would take that as a green light to, literally, sodomize them?

reply to post by Outofcontrol


India and China have a very strained relationship for over 50 years now. Perhaps doing some research to educate yourself on the topic will help to allay your sense of incredulity?

The Coming China-India Conflict: Is War Inevitable?

Indian Army preparing for limited conflict with China: US intel chief

Conflict in the South China Sea and India’s interests

Sino-Indian War

I think China is vastly better prepaired at fending off an invasion than say during WW II. But when it comes to force projection beyond their borders China has nothing going for them and wont for a while.

Originally posted by travis911
On this forum and all over the net, most of China's missile forces are known by the famous, although untested, carrier killer DF-21D. China though has many missiles at its command that could do major damage to US or allied forces if a conflict occurred. One scary note, almost all US Air Bases have very little protection from a Chinese missile attack:

"The problem is, there are hardly any shelters at all at most bases in the Asia-Pacific. Kadena Air Base, for example, has a grand total of 15 shelters, enough for at most 30 fighter aircraft if you squeeze two into each. Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, also on Okinawa, has no aircraft shelters. There are also no shelters at MCAS Iwakuni and Yokota Air Base on Honshu, or Andersen Air Force Base."


the-diplomat.com...

The chinese did one thing and one thing only that represented the end of any war ever happening with them.



The so called super power is nothing with out its satelites...nothing.

Originally posted by Cassius666
I think China is vastly better prepaired at fending off an invasion than say during WW II. But when it comes to force projection beyond their borders China has nothing going for them and wont for a while.

it's inconceivable that China could bring about a land invasion of the U.S., while India and Pakistan, presumably with our logistic support, could seriously pressure China on land. so any prospective conflict could be determined by our attempts to supply our allies and Chinese efforts to interdict.
one wonders if the next war will be a grand rehash of Coral Sea, with combatants hurling over-the-horizon missiles and never seeing the targets.
does China have any Atlantic presence? they have been spending a lot of time and $ in Africa here lately.
oh boy, something else to look forward to...

reply to post by travis911


That is yesterday's way of doing war. If they started such an attack, ICBMs would be raining down on their major cities in 30 minutes. Since that would be the case, they would not be attacking our bases in the first place. That thinking is from WWII, not a modern war with ICBMs and space platform weaponry.

I dont think it matters. We all know and hear about ours and other country's "top-secret" weapons...fantastic possibilities of all kinds. We know they exist.

I think if push came to shove, and the missles were flying our way....we would use them to "clear the skies" with some unheard of tech we know nothing about yet...and have only surmised and assumed they must exist.

If we DIDNT use these "top secret" tech weapons we have developed....why would the gov's have developed them?

China Is Said to Be Bolstering Missile Capabilities

"China is moving ahead with the development of a new and more capable generation of intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine-launched missiles, increasing its existing ability to deliver nuclear warheads to the United States and to overwhelm missile defense systems, military analysts said this week."

"American officials have repeatedly said that their main concern is North Korea, which has been testing long-range missiles and developing nuclear weapons. But Chinese officials and experts have been suspicious that American defense systems are aimed at their country’s forces as well."

and whats china going to do when the US sends thousands of drones/cruise missiles their way. not to mention the all the militaries black budget toys that have been developed over the past 10-20 years.

In this day and age with all the satteliles in the sky tracking a buildup long before the first shot is fired, how can a major army carry out an surprise attack?

reply to post by 8fl0z


Very few US air bases have aerial defenses. As for the ballistic missiles, we would have at best, 30 minutes to launch our aircraft. 95% of our aircraft would be destroyed in short order.

This isn't the 50's, you aren't surprising the US with a missle anymore.

I love the ignorance of people that blindly hate the US... keep thinking we will fall.


China we bow to the US as long as we require them too. A big debt doesn't bother us at all and, if China creates an issue, they will be destroyed.