You asked for it

For all the partisan political gladiators and those paid by various organizations to come here (and elsewhere) to disrupt honest debate…

Somewhere between Nixon and Reagan, the US electoral process was hijacked. Exactly when is subject to endless argument but… it did happen and as a result, the American electorate, over a period of several decades, has been dumbed down and led by the nose to this arena.

Oh yes, a nation divided against itself shall certainly fall and since the middle class has been eliminated by sending their jobs to China, and the lesser economic classes challenged by opening the door to illegal labor, there’s just not much left for us to do but blame the ‘other guy’.

We do it well, too.

Now we have gay marriage to substitute for unemployment and a complete lack of representation by a government that was founded specifically for that purpose.

Bicker, argue, name-call… everyone who disagrees with you is a hater or a phobic. It really works well because the media, depending on which brand you choose, fully endorses your anger!

Woo hoo! Lets attack the 50% of this nation who are out to destroy it!

If we were to pull back for only a moment, we’d realize that neither Obama or Romney were what this nation needs. We’d see… plainly and clearly that both are the products of political machines that work for the same boss.

But… we will continue to call our opposites racists and homophobes and commies and all manner of other names. And once our country has been properly disabled and rendered useless for anything… then you may finally see your predicted martial law and camps come to life.

Then you may find yourself in one of them because you wouldn’t shut up when you were told… and it won’t matter who you voted for. Not a whit.

If I dare close this with God Bless America... I know there is a risk but... isn't the concept of wishing this nation well worth more than how it was phrased?

No. Of course not.

Pshh...
Useless thread

I want to hear about Zimmerman, Obama's front page cover of Rolling Stone, him singing on late tv shows & what he thinks about Kanye West.

Reality and logic is so passe
Get with the times bro

American Idol >>>>>>> The Economy and our kids's future!

reply to post by redoubt


Was there a question in there somewhere?

You had me all fired up ready to go!!!

reply to post by redoubt


We have to be the change we want.
(nod to Ghandi)

Expecting hope and change from any candidate is a fools promise.

Ever watch the movie Brewster's Millions? I stand behind the idea of everyone writing in "none of the above" on their ballots. See what happens then.

reply to post by QuietInsanity


If "none of the above actually happened" the powers would say that Americans are finally completely satisfied with the status quo, sad to say.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by redoubt

 

We have to be the change we want.
(nod to Ghandi)


Expecting hope and change from any candidate is a fools promise.

Well then, thank you Ron Paul for invigorating the American population, especially the young. I am excited to see the change happening in front of my own eyes. We the people are waking up!!!

When I, the People, learn to remember, when I, the
People, use the lessons of yesterday and no longer
forget who robbed me last year, who played me for
a fool--then there will be no speaker in all the world
say the name: "The People," with any fleck of a
sneer in his voice or any far-off smile of derision.
The mob--the crowd--the mass--will arrive then.

reply to post by redoubt


www.americanthinker.com...

Text

The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.
Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven were two lifelong members of Democratic Socialists of America who taught sociology at Columbia University (Piven later went on to City University of New York). In a May 1966 Nation magazine article titled "The Weight of the Poor," they outlined their strategy, proposing to use grassroots radical organizations to push ever more strident demands for public services at all levels of government.
The result, they predicted, would be "a profound financial and political crisis" that would unleash "powerful forces ... for major economic reform at the national level."
They implemented the strategy by creating a succession of radical organizations, most notable among them the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), with the help of veteran organizer Wade Rathke. Their crowning achievement was the "Motor Voter" act, signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993 with Cloward and Piven standing behind him.

As we now know, ACORN was one of the chief drivers of high-risk mortgage lending that eventually led to the financial crisis. But the Motor Voter law was another component of the strategy. It created vast vulnerabilities in our electoral system, which ACORN then exploited.

ACORN's vote registration scandals throughout the U.S. are predictable fallout.
The Motor Voter law has also been used to open another vulnerability in the system: the registration of vast numbers of illegal aliens, who then reliably vote Democrat. Herein lies the real reason Democrats are so anxious for open borders, security be damned.
It should be clear to anyone with a mind and two eyes that this president and this Congress do not have our interests at heart. They are implementing this strategy on an unprecedented scale by flooding America with a tidal wave of poisonous initiatives, orders, regulations, and laws. As Rahm Emmanuel said, "A crisis is a terrible thing to waste."
The real goal of "health care" legislation, the real goal of "cap-and-trade," and the real goal of the "stimulus" is to rip the guts out of our private economy and transfer wide swaths of it over to the government to control. Do not be deluded by the propaganda. These initiatives are vehicles for change. They are not goals in and of themselves except in their ability to deliver power. They and will make matters much worse, for that is their design.
This time, in addition to overwhelming the government with demands for services, Obama and the Democrats are overwhelming political opposition to their plans with a flood of apocalyptic legislation. Their ultimate goal is to leave us so discouraged, demoralized, and exhausted that we throw our hands up in defeat. As Charles Rangel* said, "the middle class will be too distracted to fight."
These people are our enemies. They don't use guns, yet, but they are just as dangerous, determined, and duplicitous as the communists we faced in the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam, and bush wars across the globe, and the Nazis we faced in World War II.


It is time we fully internalized and digested this fact, with all its ugly ramifications. These people have violated countless laws and could be prosecuted, had we the political power. Not only are their policies unconstitutional, but deliberately so -- the goal being to make the Constitution irrelevant. Their spending is off the charts and will drive us into hyperinflation, but it could be rescinded, had we the political power. These policies are toxic, but they could be stopped and reversed, had we the political power. Their ideologies are poisonous, but they could be exposed for what they are, with long jail sentences as an object lesson, had we the political power.


Every single citizen who cares about this country should be spending every minute of his or her spare time lobbying, organizing, writing, and planning. Fight every initiative they launch. It is all destructive. If we are to root out this evil, it is critical that in 2010 we elect competent, principled leaders willing to defend our Constitution and our country. Otherwise, the malevolent cabal that occupies the government today will become too entrenched.

After that, all bets are off.

The way I see it, my choices are one of two things: theocracy or fascism.

A lot of the people who want to dismantle the things allowing the root of the fascism are also extremely Bible happy. Also, in the absence of a clear fascist government, that seems like the most immediately ready system to take over.

Frankly, I'll take the theocracy. At least I'll understand the rules.

Originally posted by QuietInsanity
Ever watch the movie Brewster's Millions? I stand behind the idea of everyone writing in "none of the above" on their ballots. See what happens then.

edit on 12-5-2012 by QuietInsanity because: spelling

Oh come on, it would be 51:49 in favor of Mitt Romney. The phantom support base is strong.

Originally posted by redoubt
Somewhere between Nixon and Reagan, the US electoral process was hijacked.

The US electoral process was hijacked November 22, 1963.

....enter Lyndon B. Johnson.

Thanks to all who have (and may yet) respond.

This thread... rant, whatever, was inspired by reading the news on the web and then coming here and watching the gladiatorial games between members of opposite political polarity. It just seemed so clear that we've been led to this place and purposely divided on such pointless positions to then be corralled into camps supporting people who take their orders from the same place.

No, I don't expect any of this to change. I don't think that would be allowed to happen. To save this nation (US) and the rest of what is oft (and somewhat incorrectly) referred to as 'democracy', there would have to be such a groundswell of unity that both political parties would fall away and disintegrate.

So again, no, I don't think there is any salvation in our immediate future. It just wouldn't hurt if we made-believe that we cared more for our future than painting our neighbors to be monsters...

Thanks again to all who have responded

reply to post by redoubt

This thread... rant, whatever, was inspired by reading the news on the web and then coming here and watching the gladiatorial games between members of opposite political polarity. It just seemed so clear that we've been led to this place and purposely divided on such pointless positions to then be corralled into camps supporting people who take their orders from the same place.

Love ya, man, and we're usually on the same page, but I disagree with the premise of this thread. People aren’t arguing about “pointless issues” as you call them. The issues most of us care deeply about are not pointless! There is a fundamental difference of opinion about the way this country should be run; it’s always been that way and will always be that way.

As far as all of us being “led to this place,” I believe that’s completely false. There have always been deep political divisions in this country (and every other country). Beginning in 1789 we had the Federalists and the Antifederalists, which later became the Federalist and the Republicans, etc. The political parties have evolved into what we have today but the fundamental differences about how this country should run have ALWAYS been present.

Please don’t dismiss partisans as blind morons being led by TPTB because that is false. Maybe because you are a self-proclaimed “centrist” you can’t see the relevance of hotly contested issues? Your inability to understand partisans and our deeply held beliefs isn’t our fault.

Just saying!

reply to post by seabag


Actually, the term 'centrist' is the only definition that really works but, not because I walk the fence on every issue, lol. I think of myself more as a slightly left Libertarian... if you can imagine how that translates.

Nope, the point was (and is) that most of the issues being argued in 2012 are not going to lead to a solution to the nation's woes. I mean, whether homosexuals can marry will never produce a single job or bring back a single industry from red China. But still and all, that is what the hot button topic is right now because that is where the MSM has led us.

Then there's what is incorrectly termed 'entitlement' programs. These are huge issues but those dependent upon them, after paying into them their entire working lives, are played out to be leeches... when they're not. But, this takes the heat off the politicals who continue to fund pork barrel pet projects that never make headlines, lol.

It's all very convenient.

My personal wish would be for just this election, for the kool aid warriors to put aside their reds and blues and focus on the real issues as one nation. That would do mare than 10 years of bickering...

... in my humble opinion, that is. But hey... maybe I'm wrong. maybe all the fighting is good for us... and in good time, we'll get the results, whatever they may be.

Thanks for the reply. Always good to hear from you!

reply to post by redoubt

Actually, the term 'centrist' is the only definition that really works but, not because I walk the fence on every issue, lol. I think of myself more as a slightly left Libertarian... if you can imagine how that translates.

I get it. Gov. Ventura used to call that “Libertarian-Light.”

Nope, the point was (and is) that most of the issues being argued in 2012 are not going to lead to a solution to the nation's woes. I mean, whether homosexuals can marry will never produce a single job or bring back a single industry from red China. But still and all, that is what the hot button topic is right now because that is where the MSM has led us.

You are right that many issues are being brought up simply as a distraction…I agree 100%. I don’t think most people will be distracted from the economy though because its affects are too widespread to ignore at this point. Obama sure is trying though. Do you blame him? Look at his record!!

Then there's what is incorrectly termed 'entitlement' programs. These are huge issues but those dependent upon them, after paying into them their entire working lives, are played out to be leeches... when they're not. But, this takes the heat off the politicals who continue to fund pork barrel pet projects that never make headlines, lol.

Come on!! You know that the amount of people milking the system has dramatically increased. We’re not talking about retirees on Social Security who earned it! We’re talking about douche bags like the lady in Michigan who won the lotto and continued to collect food stamps. We’re talking about people who collect unemployment because they won’t take a job that is “beneath” them, like flipping burgers.

It's all very convenient.

My personal wish would be for just this election, for the kool aid warriors to put aside their reds and blues and focus on the real issues as one nation. That would do mare than 10 years of bickering...

... in my humble opinion, that is. But hey... maybe I'm wrong. maybe all the fighting is good for us... and in good time, we'll get the results, whatever they may be.

Thanks for the reply. Always good to hear from you!

Issues that are important to someone aren’t kool aid; drinking kool aid is allowing someone to tell you what’s important, but I understand your frustration! I think we all want to address the fundamental issues facing the country right now. We need not be distracted by the less important issues but rather we should be focused on what’s destroying our country. We can go back to bickering about less significant (though still important issues – i.e. gay marriage) once we have our country back.

reply to post by seabag


My dear friend... our country is, at this point, either already lost or beyond the point which most people would act to regain it.

Imagine that for one moment... the comfy guy with a wife and two kids, a riding mower and three cars in the garage. His nation is going down the drain but, for the moment, he isn't really being touched. he can see clearly how our industrial base was sold down the tubes to China and that with it, so too went what was once called the 'great middle class'. He can see also that politicians are all but own by special interest and that his vote... that one single moment when he speaks his voice to who will run this country, has also been sold out.

Now at night, as he looks out over his freshly manicured lawn and his children sleeping peacefully and his wonderful wife next to him... what does he do? Does he ruin it all by taking a stand against those who have slowly cesspooled our country or does he hold on and hope... hope for the best?

It is from this point that the right and the left go their separate ways because both see the obvious but both choose to rely on that hope based on various political gimmickry.

More taxes?
-Division-
Less Taxes?

More government control?
-Division-
Less government control?

But... wait a minute. Those subjects mean something. We can't let these guys make hard choices like that!

Gay marriage?
-Division-
No gay marriage?

It's a media barnburner and we are all riding the hay wagons to the bonfire, lol!!!

Yeah. I am a cynic and I distrust damned near every single politician of every single party for danged near every reason you can imagine. But, I don't have any regrets... everyday when I get up and look out at what was once this great land of a people united under a beautiful flag... I see purposeful division that has no good ending.

The house divided... click it or ticket... wear those seatbelts because, the traffic just gets worse at rush hour 2012.

Cheers

reply to post by redoubt

Imagine that for one moment... the comfy guy with a wife and two kids, a riding mower and three cars in the garage. His nation is going down the drain but, for the moment, he isn't really being touched. he can see clearly how our industrial base was sold down the tubes to China and that with it, so too went what was once called the 'great middle class'. He can see also that politicians are all but own by special interest and that his vote... that one single moment when he speaks his voice to who will run this country, has also been sold out.

Now at night, as he looks out over his freshly manicured lawn and his children sleeping peacefully and his wonderful wife next to him... what does he do? Does he ruin it all by taking a stand against those who have slowly cesspooled our country or does he hold on and hope... hope for the best?

Are you spying on me??

You must remember that every generation believes theirs is the last. I think ‘if’ and ‘when’ the time comes to “do something” we’ll know it. Some people feel we’re there now and are calling for revolution. I don’t think we’re at that point yet. Though I’m not ready to ‘ruin it all by taking a stand’ just yet I am active politically. I think the whole ‘2012’ thing may very well become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah. I am a cynic and I distrust damned near every single politician of every single party for danged near every reason you can imagine. But, I don't have any regrets... everyday when I get up and look out at what was once this great land of a people united under a beautiful flag... I see purposeful division that has no good ending.

Although I understand where you’re coming from I guess I’m just not as cynical!

I think we’ll see some movement in the coming months. Something may happen that changes the minds of those who are less cynical.

Cheers

reply to post by redoubt


America was born to have an enemy, hell we were born OF an enemy at the time. We haven't had a real threat to us or a real enemy to the point where we are manufacturing them. The enemy is now ourselves, a new barrier in the continued expansion of the human race. It just has to be broken that's all, happened all through history. It's just going to suck for us because we're going to be the ones who have to do it.