The Rise Of Socialism And How Capitalism Ran Out Of Other Peoples Money.

reply to post by HEYJOSE

The revolution that I am after is a peaceful one where at the end of it there is equity. No one should be homeless or hungry or thirsty or without medical care, these are basic human rights.

That sounds like my kind of revolucion comrade

I think we are on the same side.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by HEYJOSE
Just great, replace one oppressive form of pyramidal thievery with another! "There is NO Government like NO GOVERNMENT"- Socialism is fun until the sociopaths get to run things, then EVERYBODY INTO THE GULAG!

Yes the power pyramid will always fail. It is designed to fail. Parasitism do not work because it destroys what it is parasiting on. That is why you need a socialist unparasitic system where all contibute and everybody get their appropiate share according to contribution and rentparasitism is not allowed. Money should not make people money. If it does then all money go to the top in the end and the whole system collapses. Because money making money gives the people with money the possibility to manipulate the whole system. And monopoly is the most profitable way to make money.

edit on 10-5-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking

I agree with you. As Gandhi stated, "We have enough for everyones need but not for everyones greed".
Peace to you and thank you for your reply.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Germanicus

I dont care what we call it. We will destroy Crony Capitalism,we will destroy State Capitalism,we will destroy Corporatism and destroy Imperialism.

Socialism this way comes.

 

Well then, you are going to have crony socialism, state socialism and corporate socialism. If you don't get that the very system is broken, then you can't fix it with a bandaid of some other guise....

I dont want to fix it. I want to burn it to the ground and salt the earth.

Then rise from the ashes like a socialist pheonix.

Ahn you mean just like Lenin's USSR eh.

Originally posted by HEYJOSE

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by HEYJOSE
Just great, replace one oppressive form of pyramidal thievery with another! "There is NO Government like NO GOVERNMENT"- Socialism is fun until the sociopaths get to run things, then EVERYBODY INTO THE GULAG!

I agree with you. As Gandhi stated, "We have enough for everyones need but not for everyones greed".
Peace to you and thank you for your reply.

Although admirable of Gandhi the idea is highly ignorant. As if humanity would have invented and expanded technology with everyone living in mud huts. Oh but they would all have enough food and water and "enough for everyone's needs." Stupid!!..

Unfortunately Gandhi either doesn't understand how progress ensues or he doesn't care about it. The greatest progress the world has ever seen came from Capitalism and Capitalism's "big winners." Even the poorest people in the industrialized world have many times more than before Capitalism.. Socialism is a sure way to ruin progress.

Originally posted by Germanicus


And do you really think socialists would lock up as many people as the capitalists?

No,They would just make them " disappear ".


Heres National Socialism.......

"Become strong again in spirit, strong in will, strong in endurance, strong to bear all sacrifices"
- Adolf Hitler



"Our strategy is to destroy the enemy from within, to conquer him through himself."
- Adolf Hitler



"Just as the world cannot live on wars, so people cannot on revolutions"
- Adolf Hitler


"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler


There are no checks and balances to National Socialism. Its a pyramid scheme,with one ruler,making the decisions. You cannot say you want this type of "Nationalistic pride",without knowing that the rest of those who are not "pure",have to go somewhere,usually to their deaths,for being different. Those that speak out in these types of Governments,where one man makes the decisions,usually are thrown in Jail,or out right killed,or made a slave,with no voice.

Hitler,Stalin,Pol Pot,Kim Jong-il,etc......all with complete control,over the masses. Look to History,for your answers ,Germanicus.They are not dreams,but nightmares. Don't sugarcoat it either......

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Federal Reserve
Department of Education

All Social programs all that have failed because they have ran out of other people's money rather obvious i thought what is also obvious is all those bailouts were socialist as well in capitalism it is pure darwinism the strong survive the weak get eaten and fail.

Capitalism rewards success
Socialism rewards mediccrity.

Socialism is giving people a trophy for just showing up in life.

Meh

Originally posted by neo96

Socialism is giving people a trophy for just showing up in life.

edit on 15-5-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

This is exactly how I feel. Somehow the people that have applied themselves, whether it be through going to school and earning a degree, or working 2 - 3 jobs to make good money, are somehow deemed unfairly doing better. The same people that scream socialism are the same people that can't hold a job and are too weak to work hard. Yet society coddles these people through social welfare programs which in my opinion only perpetuates the laziness.

Originally posted by neo96
Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Federal Reserve
Department of Education

All Social programs all that have failed because they have ran out of other people's money rather obvious i thought what is also obvious is all those bailouts were socialist as well in capitalism it is pure darwinism the strong survive the weak get eaten and fail.

Capitalism rewards success
Socialism rewards mediccrity.

Socialism is giving people a trophy for just showing up in life.

Meh

edit on 15-5-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Your statements further enforce my belief that all governments are mechanisms of thievery, stealing the very life of man and imprisoning his spirit. Government rewards the compliant, docile and whitless who would say unto themselves, I am not smart enough or brave enough to lead myself, to be my own sovereign and when necessary band together with my equals, other sovereign men and women to accomplish mutually beneficial goals. Capitalism rewards the scum of society that when the social stew is not frequently stirred, rises to the top. You paint Socialism with a broad stroke...National Socialism leads to the totalitarianism of the individual by the collective. Libertarian Socialism is man as he was meant to be free and sovereign with no impedements. Capitalism is not designed to be a political structure although as you have insightfully pointed out it has become one..bourgeois democracy. Please objectively examine your situation and the situation of the world. Why would you knowingly and willingly subjugate your sovereignty as a free man to the whims of the collective of either Capitalism (Bourgeois democracy) or National Socialism?

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reply to post by Germanicus


You are nothing but a fool falling in for the plans of the banker elites which is to establish a One World Socialist/Fascist Government/ which will be nothing more than a dictatorship...

You are nothing more than another of the millions of ignorant people who wish to ignore the FACTS of history that SOCIALISM ALWAYS LEADS TO DICTATORSHIP...

Let's first see what has ALWAYS and CONTINUES to be the true definition of socialism...

socialism


Definition of SOCIALISM

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.

www.merriam-webster.com...

Under a socialist/communist system the STATE dictates how much you really need to eat, and what you can eat, as well as deciding what you need, and "for the good of the collective" you are not allowed to have what you want.

Under socialism/communism

"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism." Karl Marx.

Which means that if you disagree with anything about socialism/communism "YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF THE STATE/REVOLUTION"... This is part of the "permanent revolution".

Even Karl Marx also stated that

" Democracy is the road to socialism." Karl Marx.

And even Lenin said that

"The goal of socialism is communism. Vladimir Lenin

www.brainyquote.com...

This is the reason why these days "COMMUNISTS" are trying to blur the differences between socialism and communism, because in truth their goal has always, and will always be COMMUNISM.

Unless leftwingers, and people in general wake up and accept the facts, we are going to have the worse SOCIALIST dictatorship ever created...

The following website explains CLEARLY the problem. Whether the solution they claim will work is something we will have to see. What really matters is that people WAKE UP ONCE AND FOR ALL that giving all power to the state, and consolidating all power to a few, even if they claim to be "the workers" or to "represent the workers" is a bad idea since then there is NOTHING to stop them because THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER...

SOCIALISM & CENTRAL BANKING

SOCIALISM has been the issue of the bloody twentieth century. The greatest slaughter in all human history was the consequence of the effort to settle this issue _ whether it was the bureaucratic form as in Communism or the special-law or fiat kind as in Naziism. The Nazi (National Sozialist) kind died first as the result of World War II. The Communist form (seen in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) died when it could no longer match American military production, and it became clear to all that the Soviets were being out-produced in both the kinds and quality of armaments they would need to maintain the threat that they had used for so many long years during the Cold War.

The last years of the twentieth century are witnessing the death of the welfare state, the present form of socialism, which is socialism with a democratic face. The cause of its death is the exhaustion of the capital reserve of the world, accumulated by its peoples through centuries of saving, which has been taxed away and wasted by the bureaucracies of the welfare states in the various countries.

What will follow is what we are already threatened with, the last and most evil form of socialism. Nothing approaching it has been seen in the whole history of man. This international form of socialism would be administered by the world banking system in the name of international bodies such as the United Nations.

Communism aspired to world control, but it did not have the means to that end. International socialism is now within reach of this goal through the banking system.

In the United States this phenomenon had its first important appearance in the Wilsonian effort to establish the League of Nations as an aspiring world government in swaddling clothes.

The United Nations succeeded where the League of Nations had failed because World War II had occurred and the United Nations was portrayed as the needed international control to assure peace.

But the United Nations has been used as a propaganda machine for international socialism through all its years, and it may yet acquire its own military force to police the world.

Meanwhile, the true enabling power of world government, the international banking system, has worked to become adequate to the greatest challenge of all time, the establishment of world government which would be administered by the banks. (The United Nations police force would remain only a background threat that isn’t where the real control would be centered.) Since World War II the banking system has managed to build a formidable array of organizations for its functioning, beginning with the post-war Bretton Woods agreement and including the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, among others.

At the same time, within the United States, the Internal Revenue Service (the income tax) and the Federal Reserve system have become the two tools that are the engine of the transformation of the sovereignty of the United States into the backbone of the new world government.
...

www.thevoluntarystate.com...

Shall we look at some of the other type of people who have implemented your ideas of SOCIALISM before?...

The Programme of the German Workers' Party is designed to be of limited duration. The leaders have no intention, once the aims announced in it have been achieved, of establishing fresh ones, merely in order to increase, artificially, the discontent of the masses and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.

1. We demand the union of all Germany in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever be their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.

5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.

6. The right to vote on the State's government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens.

We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.

7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.


We demand therefore:


11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.


The breaking of the slavery of interest


12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. *

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the nation of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

21. The State must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary army and the foundation of a people's army.
...

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

(continued)
23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:

(a) that all editors of, and contributors to newspapers appearing in the German language must be members of the nation;
(b) that no non-German newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be printed in the German language;
(c) that non-Germans shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing German newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspaper, and the immediate deportation of the non-Germans involved.

The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.

24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence not offend the moral feelings of the German race.

The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.

25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

The leaders of the Party promise to work ruthlessly -- if need be to sacrifice their very lives -- to translate this programme into action.

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

Do you know which party was this and who was in control?...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
...

Hitler was intent on having a community of mutual interest that desired mutual success instead of one that was divided over the control of money or differing values.

THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST -
THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST - THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.
...

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

Shall we look at who else was a socialist and established a socialist system in his country?...

Here is the FASCIST Manifesto of Mussolini which shows that he was a SOCIALIST and implemented SOCIALISM in Italy...

Contents of the Fascist Manifesto

The manifesto (published in "Il Popolo d'Italia" on June 6, 1919) is divided into four sections, describing Fascist objectives in political, social, military and financial fields.[2]

Politically, the manifesto calls for:
Universal suffrage with a lowered voting age to 18 years, and voting and electoral office eligibility for all age 25 and more, including women;
Proportional representation on a regional basis;
Voting for women (which was opposed by most other European nations);
Representation at government level of newly created national councils by economic sector;
The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the king. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the crown);
The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers (this concept was rooted in corporatist ideology and derived in part from Catholic social doctrine).

In labour and social policy, the manifesto calls for:
The quick enactment of a law of the state that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers;
A minimum wage;
The participation of workers' representatives in the functions of industry commissions;
To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants;
Reorganisation of the railways and the transport sector;
Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance;
Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.

In military affairs, the manifesto advocates:
Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities;
Armaments factories are to be nationalised;
A peaceful but competitive foreign policy.

In finance, the manifesto advocates:
A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth);
The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor;
Revision of all contracts for military provisions;
The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.

The manifesto thus combined elements of contemporary democratic and progressive thought (franchise reform, labour reform, limited nationalisation, taxes on wealth and war profits) with corporatist emphasis on class collaboration (the idea of social classes existing side by side and collaborating for the sake of national interests; the opposite of the Marxist notion of class struggle).

en.wikipedia.org...

You will even find other socialists, such as Fabian socialist George Bernard Shaw who have, and do in the case of some of today's socialists praise other socialists like Mussolini.

You should even read at least part of the biography of Mussolini and understand that he was just another SOCIALIST who invented another branch of socialism known as FASCISM...

Benito Mussolini was born on July 29th 1883 to a blacksmith who dabbled in socialist writing, and a Catholic school teacher. The family were poor, although Mussolini later exaggerated this for effect. He was a violent and uncontrollable child, expelled from several schools for attacking pupils with a penknife, but was also intelligent, passing examinations. Mussolini’s father took him to socialist meetings. When older, Mussolini worked for a short while as a teacher but, having been sacked, he moved to Switzerland and drifted from job to job.

Mussolini the Socialist:

While in Switzerland Mussolini read, wrote and spoke about socialism, beginning a reputation as a charismatic and powerful orator. This only grew once he returned to Italy in 1904, having been thrown out by the Swiss. After another brief stint as a teacher and then army service, he turned again to socialist writing, being arrested for his views and developing a reputation as one of Italy’s dominant young socialists. In 1912 he was entrusted with the role of editor of ‘Avanti!’, Italy’s official socialist periodical, and doubled the readership.

World War 1 and the turn to Fascism:

As a socialist, Mussolini initially opposed Italy’s entry into World War 1, but changed his mind as he pondered Marx’s notion that social revolution follows war. He began agitating in favour of the war, leading to his departure from Avanti and expulsion from the socialist party. He instead started a paper funded by a pro-war publisher called ‘The People of Italy’, developing a bitterly nationalist, pro-Italian philosophy. Then he was conscripted and fought, apparently bravely, until he left through injury in 1917.
...

europeanhistory.about.com...

Mussolini was ALWAYS a SOCIALIST, he only knew about SOCIALISM, but adopted some of the views of Karl Marx about a "PERMANENT REVOLUTION" which is nothing more than constant war against anyone and everyone who opposes socialism/communism/the revolution...

In sumary, Mussolini was just ANOTHER SOCIALIST DICTATOR WHO INVENTED ANOTHER BRANCH OF SOCIALISM KNOWN AS FASCISM...

Capitalism? Really? Over the past 4 years (Bush and Obama) we've witnessed the largest transfer of public wealth to the "capitalists" in the history of the world to rescue them from their own mistakes. As well, we outright give the largest companies on the glode (Exxon Mobile, GE, etc.) massive subsidies of the public wealth even at a time they are achieving record profits. All this dwarfs the amount of money spent on the poor. We may be a socialist country, but it is corporate socialism.

Originally posted by pajoly
Capitalism? Really? Over the past 4 years (Bush and Obama) we've witnessed the largest transfer of public wealth to the "capitalists" in the history of the world to rescue them from their own mistakes. As well, we outright give the largest companies on the glode (Exxon Mobile, GE, etc.) massive subsidies of the public wealth even at a time they are achieving record profits. All this dwarfs the amount of money spent on the poor. We may be a socialist country, but it is corporate socialism.

And corporations are nothing more than socialist entities. In fact under socialism they are called "cooperative enterprises".

The global socialist banking elites want to implement Global socialism under corporate mandates/laws...

Democratising Global Governance:

The Challenges of the World Social Forum

by

Francesca Beausang



ABSTRACT

This paper sums up the debate that took place during the two round tables organized by UNESCO within the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre (25/30 January 2001). It starts with a discussion of national processes, by examining democracy and then governance at the national level. It first states a case for a "joint" governance based on a combination of stakeholder theory, which is derived from corporate governance, and of UNESCO's priorities in the field of governance. As an example, the paper investigates how governance can deviate from democracy in the East Asian model. Subsequently, the global dimension of the debate on democracy and governance is examined, first by identification of the characteristics and agents of democracy in the global setting, and then by allusion to the difficulties of transposing governance to the global level.
...
The governments of Europe, the United States, and Japan are unlikely to negotiate a social-democratic pattern of globalization – unless their hands are forced by a popular movement or a catastrophe, such as another Great Depression or ecological disaster

www.unesco.org...


Notice that the global governance they have in mind "DERIVES FROM CORPORATE GOVERNANCE"...

That is what the global socialist/fascist elites have in mind for all of us.

Originally posted by pajoly
Capitalism? Really? Over the past 4 years (Bush and Obama) we've witnessed the largest transfer of public wealth to the "capitalists" in the history of the world to rescue them from their own mistakes. As well, we outright give the largest companies on the glode (Exxon Mobile, GE, etc.) massive subsidies of the public wealth even at a time they are achieving record profits. All this dwarfs the amount of money spent on the poor. We may be a socialist country, but it is corporate socialism.

It wasn't mistakes. They purposely sold the public a bill of goods and then reimbursed themselves with the public's money after giving themselves huge bonuses.. What really happened is the powers behind the government paid off banking elites to destroy the US economy and in return they would reimburse their companies for any losses.

It's all going to collapse. This current world order is ending. Neo-tribalism monarchism and old-style paganism are our best options.