WARNING: 3D TV's Possibly Causing Strokes and Vision Loss

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
And to correct your ill-informed statement, the DOCTORS explained it very simply... the increased strain to the eye muscles causes increased blood flow to those muscles and in turn, increases the pressure on the eye. The changes in pressure around the eye and it's blood vessels is significantly increased due to the strain that 3D glasses put on the eyes by forcing them to work harder. This can cause the blood vessels to burst or hemorrhage, which is why they had an ocular stroke and not a full blown stroke, but it was not removed from the realm of possibilities.

I don't know which doctors you spoke to, but it's obvious that you've misunderstood them. A retinal occlusion (ocular stroke) is awfully rare, with a 10-year cumulative incidence rate of less than 2%. It is caused by an embolism or clot in the arterial network of the retina; not a burst blood vessel or hemorrhage. Ocular hemorrhages are not unusual and are frequently seen when there's a regional contusion. In those cases, the whites of the eye become blood-red. Increased eye strain caused by visual stimuli would not result in an embolism. The dangers posed by 3D displays, video games, and Pokemon are purely based on neurological distress (seizure) triggered by certain visual stimuli in a small percentage of the population. If it happens, it happens in the brain and is electrochemical in nature. The localized ocular region would be unaffected, as would oxygenation and glucose delivery to the brain. There is no risk of a stroke, of any kind, that can be attributed to increased visual stimuli or excessive eye strain. Please stop with the scare tactics. Some people here are actually educated.

Just to clarify my original post, the stroke was an ocular stroke, caused by stress to the eye, according to the myriad of medical specialists at the Veteran's hospital that examined my family member, and a younger vet who was there for the same problem. Both were diagnosed with the same exact thing, both had on 3D glasses when it occurred, both were in excellent health and had no clotting or hardening of the arteries.

The specialists that reviewed them explained in elaborate detail that extreme strain to the eyes will increase the blood flow to the muscles in the eye, which is carried by the extremely small and delicate blood vessels in and around the eyes. When too much pressure is in the eye, the blood vessels can burst, which happens commonly around the white part of the eye in many people but does not cause blindness. When a blood vessel ruptures near the optic nerve, it is called an ocular stroke, which is the diagnosis I referred to. It happened in one eye, which supports the idea that the 3D glasses were straining one eye more than the other.

The fact that manufacturers have made a warning about seizures and strokes to people with existing conditions shows that there is concern about negative consequences to health. There have never been any studies conducted on the effects of 3D TV for different types of people. Some people wear glasses, so they are more likely to experience discomfort from 3D TV because one eye (or both) are already weak and have difficulty focusing on far or near objects.

Just because YOU have a 3D TV and nothing has happened to you is the same argument you throw at me about not having proof that just because they were wearing the 3D glasses, that it was the cause of their ocular strokes. 3 people in 2 different parts of the state, only a few weeks apart, all had an ocular stroke while 3D glasses were on their heads, and none of them had any other known medical issues prior. That is not coincidence, or a statistical anomaly, so if you feel that strongly that 3D glasses did NOT cause their stroke, please provide clear and convincing evidence, otherwise, YOU are the ones trolling.

I have no reason to come to ATS and post false information about a family member and family friend about their personal medical conditions. If I didn't think there was something to be concerned about, I would not have bothered posting. Instead of being savage about it and trying to discredit what I'm saying, you should be grateful that this little bit of information MAY end up saving someone's eye sight that you care about.

Have a tiny bit of compassion or empathy and imagine how you would feel if a family member or friend of yours suddenly went blind because of a condition they might not have even been aware of until they had a stroke, and then put yourself in their shoes.

It amazes me how fast some of you are to ride on the coat tails of other ATS members instead of reading, researching and coming to your own conclusions. Perhaps one day, I may find a cure for cancer or hear about a way to prevent a horrible disease, and I will only share it with those I care about instead of with all of you.

There are always consequences for your actions, even if you hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

Oh, and one more thing...

~Namaste

Originally posted by draco49

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
And to correct your ill-informed statement, the DOCTORS explained it very simply... the increased strain to the eye muscles causes increased blood flow to those muscles and in turn, increases the pressure on the eye. The changes in pressure around the eye and it's blood vessels is significantly increased due to the strain that 3D glasses put on the eyes by forcing them to work harder. This can cause the blood vessels to burst or hemorrhage, which is why they had an ocular stroke and not a full blown stroke, but it was not removed from the realm of possibilities.

I don't know which doctors you spoke to, but it's obvious that you've misunderstood them. A retinal occlusion (ocular stroke) is awfully rare, with a 10-year cumulative incidence rate of less than 2%. It is caused by an embolism or clot in the arterial network of the retina; not a burst blood vessel or hemorrhage. Ocular hemorrhages are not unusual and are frequently seen when there's a regional contusion. In those cases, the whites of the eye become blood-red. Increased eye strain caused by visual stimuli would not result in an embolism. The dangers posed by 3D displays, video games, and Pokemon are purely based on neurological distress (seizure) triggered by certain visual stimuli in a small percentage of the population. If it happens, it happens in the brain and is electrochemical in nature. The localized ocular region would be unaffected, as would oxygenation and glucose delivery to the brain. There is no risk of a stroke, of any kind, that can be attributed to increased visual stimuli or excessive eye strain. Please stop with the scare tactics. Some people here are actually educated.

edit on 5/8/2012 by draco49 because: cuz

Your source please? Otherwise, some educated people are just speculating.

And regardless of how rare you believe it is, those stats don't account for technology introduced in the last 1-2 years.

~Namaste

Originally posted by babybunnies
Excellent thread.

I've often thought that 3DTV eye glasses need to get FDA approval, as this is a direct change to the way that the brain perceives the picture, and went ahead without any sort of regulatory approval at all, or apparently any extensive research into long term effects on the brain.

Eye glasses need FDA approval, why not 3DTV glasses?

Emphasis mine.

I wish I would have said that in the OP and could give you more stars.

3D TV never underwent any testing and for that reason alone, nobody can or should be able to come on this thread and start spouting off how there is no danger.

Thanks for the post.

~Namaste

I thought a high refresh rate was better for avoiding screen flickering which can trigger seizures in people with epilepsy...so wouldn't it probably be the same for other devices? I think a low refresh rate would be worse than a higher one?

Wii & Seizures

Originally posted by KillThePoor
This is not so outlandish a claim as it may seem on the surface. I think anything with high refresh rates can cause seizures; Remember those Japanese anime cartoons that kids were getting seizures from? The cartoons had flashes of different colors on the screen in rapid procession causes SOME kids who were prone to that to have seizures. Look at a video game manual and it should say may cause seizures in people prone to them like those with epilepsy. I would think that 3D TV's and their ultra high refresh rates would come with such a warning. My mom explained to me that those rapidly changing pictures cause neurons to become overexcited and fire out of control. I guess he should keep some ativan or Klonopin on hand in case he gets another one. They often warn of not watching the TV in 3D for long periods of time due to eye strain, which causes headaches and not implausible to cause ocular damage, and probably warn of seizures in epileptic people and those who may be susceptible and not even know it. I hope your family members get better and that the problems aren't permanent. Check the manuals to anything with high refresh rates like video games, which can also contain rapidly changing images and colors, and you should see such warnings. If you have a WII, I know Nintendo doesn't hide seizure warnings and it's manual should contain the warning if not on the start up screen. This is nothing new nor is it anything rare. It's the risk of entertainment. lol I know I may not be right that refresh rate of the device itself has anything to do with it, but perhaps it does when it comes to the 3D glasses. The seizures, in prone people, from rapidly changing images and colors is accurate, though.

I think you would be surprised to find out the statistics of people who get seizures from TV and video games each year. This website concerns the Wii and it inducing seizures in part of the population, which actually is quite a high number. According to this website, Nintendo estimate that 1 in 4,000 is prone to seizures from tv and video games. Check it out there is a lot more information on this very subject, minus 3D TV's.

Seizures and the Wii - Nintendo

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Your source please? Otherwise, some educated people are just speculating.
And regardless of how rare you believe it is, those stats don't account for technology introduced in the last 1-2 years.

My source is 12 years of education and another 10 in clinical experience. New technology not withstanding, the fundamental problem with your argument is the science. We know what causes strokes; they are very well documented and understood in the medical field. We also know what doesn't cause strokes. The potential dangers associated with 3D displays are headaches caused by eye strain, and seizures caused by visual stimuli triggering an electrochemical short in the brain. Those product warnings are not new, and are not unique to 3D displays or glasses.

That you are asserting that both of these people suffered retinal occlusions means you are either lying or misinformed. The odds of two people that you know having retinal occlusions is somewhere on the order of 10mil:1. The odds are a little better if they are related and have a genetic predisposition, but that in itself would make the scenario you described even more improbable. I certainly don't think you are lying or have bad intentions, but you are misinformed or have misunderstood what was told to you.

Originally posted by draco49

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Your source please? Otherwise, some educated people are just speculating.
And regardless of how rare you believe it is, those stats don't account for technology introduced in the last 1-2 years.

My source is 12 years of education and another 10 in clinical experience. New technology not withstanding, the fundamental problem with your argument is the science. We know what causes strokes; they are very well documented and understood in the medical field. We also know what doesn't cause strokes. The potential dangers associated with 3D displays are headaches caused by eye strain, and seizures caused by visual stimuli triggering an electrochemical short in the brain. Those product warnings are not new, and are not unique to 3D displays or glasses.

That you are asserting that both of these people suffered retinal occlusions means you are either lying or misinformed. The odds of two people that you know having retinal occlusions is somewhere on the order of 10mil:1. The odds are a little better if they are related and have a genetic predisposition, but that in itself would make the scenario you described even more improbable. I certainly don't think you are lying or have bad intentions, but you are misinformed or have misunderstood what was told to you.

First of all, you just posted saying that I was using scare tactics, now you don't think my intentions are bad... I think it's obvious where my intentions are.

Secondly, the medical establishment, yourself included, still can't explain many simple things, like migraines. Just because you know today what does or does not cause strokes, does not mean it won't change tomorrow when new information is revealed. You can have 50 years of education in a subject and still not know everything about it, so I find your posts so far to be rather arrogant. As far as your claim that you know what does and does not cause strokes, please explain the following:

The biological causes of migraines are unknown, but many precipitating factors have been identified.

Rarely, the patient may be left with a permanent neurologic deficit following a migrainous attack, presumably because of irreversible cerebral ischemic (low blood flow and oxygenation) damage.

Source

The optic nerve is the cable that connects the brain to the eye and carries millions of nerve fibers and blood vessels. Although an eye stroke can occur from a total blockage of a blood vessel that feeds the optic nerve, it is more commonly caused by a lack of pressure or perfusion of the tissue. Blood pressure may change relative to the eye pressure and the normal flow of blood is reduced.

Source

Am I really misinformed or are you? Whether or not they both had a predisposition is irrelevant, that should be covered by studies conducted by manufacturers of technology before it is released to the general public, of which there is an enormous variety of conditions and predispositions. My information comes from the ophthalmologist that specializes in conditions of the eye. Are you a certified ophthalmologist or optometrist, because if not, I will take their word for it, along with the above information that confirms my understanding.

If a blood vessel bursts, the pressure in the vessel is obviously reduced, which is exactly what I said happened to both of them. If you still question the above information, then you are questioning the doctor that wrote it, and the medical review board of 14 doctors that reviewed it, not me.

Even if you are right, it doesn't change the fact that I spoke directly to the doctor who diagnosed both of these people and told them to seek legal counsel.

At this point, while I appreciate your feedback, we will have to agree to disagree because carrying on an argument with you about causation is moot without a preponderance of evidence to support your claims. I have shown enough to support mine.

~Namaste

this is exactly why I will ALWAYS buy samsung. they know whats up

Recently decided to invest in the new LG cinema 3D and there is a warning to take a break every 15 minutes, no different from the Samsung. I think the Samsung states every 30 minutes or so, could be wrong.

Nonetheless, i get to about 20 minutes of watching 3D and then i go back to the 2D disc anyways. It gets too much, for me.

2D still kicks butt. Clarity wise and way less strain on the eyes. I can actually enjoy watching a 2hr plus movie more than on 3D. Then again the kids enjoy it more, to a certain limit and then the glasses will be taken off, too.

Originally posted by mytheroy
reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

 

I don't know much on the 3D T,Vs, were they watching the T.V with or without the 3D glasses?

Or our brain isn't ready.

edit on 8-5-2012 by mytheroy because: (no reason given)

We live in 3D. Our brains were MADE ready.

In fact, I'd suggest that watching a 2 Dimensional projection of a 3 Dimensional world, would be confusing to our brains, but we've developed since childhood to work it out.

3D is a novelty, for sure, but "those pesky kids and their transistor radios. What's wrong with a phonograph. "

no?