911 Terrorists on trial. Do you want Justice or Revenge?

reply to post by miniatus
The United States has been around roughly 200 years, the endless wars in the Mid East have been going on for roughly 5000 years. We are such great war mongers we caused wars 4,800 years before we even existed.Brilliant.

reply to post by abe froman


So you've never stated intent you didn't truly have? You've never said any words out of anger which were but empty rhetoric? In my specific case, I would have no purpose in telling you if I wanted to kill you.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by miniatus

 

The United States has been around roughly 200 years, the endless wars in the Mid East have been going on for roughly 5000 years. We are such great war mongers we caused wars 4,800 years before we even existed.Brilliant.

America's history is only 200 years but most early Americans came from a European descent that also had a bloody past .. the Christian history isn't butterflies and unicorns .. I never claimed the middle east was a peaceful place before we came along, hardly! .. but that doesn't mean we've not meddled ..

reply to post by jlm912
Let me put it this way, I don't say I'm going to kill you, I say I'm going to kill your wife, or your child. Do you wait to see if I do it or do you take pre-emptive action?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
And no, I would not be enslaved or dead, as no Middle Eastern Nation has started any wars with the West...ever.

Seriously?

The Muslims besiged Vienna in 1529 and 1683. It was only after 1914 that the Muslims were finally driven out of Europe.

Dissolution of Ottoman Empire

Were the Muslim Arabs really powerless pawns of the West in the past?

No. In fact as late as the 1800s, the USA was paying protection money to the Muslim Barbary corsairs to stop them from attacking US ships and enslaving the crews.

Barbary corsairs
First Barbary War

For all but the last 200 years of Western versus Muslim conflict, it was the West that was the under dog both militarily and economically.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by jlm912

 

Let me put it this way, I don't say I'm going to kill you, I say I'm going to kill your wife, or your child. Do you wait to see if I do it or do you take pre-emptive action?

Pre-crime ... another scary notion.. punishment before the crime.

If someone threatened my family I'd be very prepared to defend with whatever force necessary... I'm not going to go murder you for having said words however.. People say stupid things all the time..

reply to post by miniatus
You want to blame this on the US so badly that now your linking America to what was done by europeans before America existed?You can't blame America for events that happened thousands of years before it existed, unless... Can I have a ride in your time machine please?

reply to post by abe froman


Until I know you're in a position to follow through, no preemptive action on my part. Killing you for something you're not currently capable of is not self-defense in my book, neither is it legally, under our laws nor international war laws.

reply to post by miniatus


If you threaten to kill my child (as these people have) my defense will be a good offense. If you are the type that says let's wait and see if he really does it, you've already lost, because they are killing us already and I think thats what you've missed.

reply to post by jlm912
How can you say they are not capable when we buried over 3,000 people in NY alone. Not only are they fully capable they have already commited the murders.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by miniatus

 

You want to blame this on the US so badly that now your linking America to what was done by europeans before America existed?You can't blame America for events that happened thousands of years before it existed, unless... Can I have a ride in your time machine please?

You can't be serious? .. you're the one who decided to use America's 200 year history to support your argument.. I decided to respond and remind you that the people who came to America were around before America was founded, and surprise.. it wasn't daises and cupcakes.. I think it's becoming pointless to try to have an actual conversation with you... it's hard to take you serious at this point.

Where is the proof? All that is against them is confession along with circumstantial evidence. Hence they're still being tried over a decade afterwards.

Justice or revenge?
well, if you pick revenge, considering the facts:
then you are the terrorist

Putting dirty words in some else's mouth, then attacking them, and stealing their natural resources, while abandoning your own troops to die of gulf war disease, and poverty, and insanity, is not self defence.

Funny, all these bad people being attacked have dope and oil and the people doing the "Self (proclaimed ) defence" are broke.

reply to post by ollncasino


The US should stay out of any conflict that it's not asked to participate in. Furthermore, it should weigh the pro and con of assisting in those conflicts.

Will the results bring more conflict to the country? Will it require decades of rebuilding and commitment to the civilians of those other nations? Will the interests of the US citizens be served by this conflict?

In the present scheme of things, the wars aren't fought for you and me, they are fought for oligarchs and war mongers who want to continue their imperialist control of the earth.

~Tenth

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by jlm912

 

How can you say they are not capable when we buried over 3,000 people in NY alone. Not only are they fully capable they have already commited the murders.

Really? how did you just do that? .. you asked him how he would respond to someone threatening his wife and child.. he responded rationally .. you then applied his response to 9/11 .. wow

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
The US should stay out of any conflict that it's not asked to participate in. Furthermore, it should weigh the pro and con of assisting in those conflicts.

Then it was fully justified to help its Arab allies during the first gulf war.

Remember - The invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan were after 9/11. They didn't cause 9/11. They were a response to it.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
In the present scheme of things, the wars aren't fought for you and me, they are fought for oligarchs and war mongers who want to continue their imperialist control of the earth.

I agree with you there.

However, it may be useful to remember that the Wahhabi terrorists who killed 3,000 people on 9/11 didn't do it for you or I either. They did it to establish Islamic imperialist control of the earth, as you put it.

reply to post by miniatus
It's hard to take you serious, first you admit ok, it was going on before America even existed and then you say well what about the people whose decendants became Americans maybe they started it. What? You know who started it? Them. Thousands of years ago, before America,before oil was discovered,before cars ran on gasoline, before Jesus, before Islam even, these wars have been going on, so before you tell me some Cro Magnon man who would later have decendants that would be Americans probably started the whole thing, realise that the one thing these endless middle eastern wars have in common is the middle easterners themselves.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Then it was fully justified to help its Arab allies during the first gulf war.

Remember - The invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan were after 9/11. They didn't cause 9/11. They were a response to it.

A terrible response if you ask me. Two wars that had nothing to do with solving the problem of terrorist activities.

You have to admit that the US has been on an imperial occupation spree of every ME nation it can get it's hands on.

NATO included. Let's not forget the plan was to take 7 (?) ME nations after 2000.

I agree with you there.

However, it may be useful to remember that the Wahhabi terrorists who killed 3,000 people on 9/11 didn't do it for you or I either. They did it to establish Islamic imperialist control of the earth, as you put it.

If you believe the story the government gave you sure, it was terrorists. IMO it was domestic terrorists but that's another thread entirely, I can't prove my hypothesis, they can't disprove it so there you go.

And I do not disagree that there is a set of Islamic Extremists who wish to control the world, I think every nation has those, we sure do in the west, we sure do in Europe and every other body of nations I can think of.

Honestly if we had a proper economy ( as in not based in fiat currency) then these wars would have probably never occured. The cost would out weight the benefits.

~Tenth

reply to post by abe froman


Even if you believe they were responsible for 9/11, that doesn't mean they are capable of doing it again. What's the old adage? Fool me once...? By tying the wars to 9/11, you inferring that it is a war of revenge, on people who have indirect relation to those who we can't prove pulled off the WTC attacks. It still has nothing to do with "defending" anyone's rights.

reply to post by jlm912
The trial is still going on, when it is over we will know whether or not we can prove it. (aside from the fact that they are not only admitting they did it but BRAGGING about it.)