911 Terrorists on trial. Do you want Justice or Revenge?

The real 9/11 terrorists are still sitting in Washington

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

You want to put Donald Rumsfeld on trial for war crimes? Get in line.

I am not claiming any moral high ground, morals are for peacetime.

No, morality is not just for peacetime and you make yourself out to be JUST like those terrorists with that mind set.

Sorry, but that's the bare truth of it. If you want to go around claiming that you are the better nation and you are doing things in the best interest of your citizens, then stop encouraging other people to bomb you, kill your citizens.

Stop occupying their nations, remove yourselve from their affairs. Mind your own damn business and perhaps people would not have the urge to harm you.

I think it's quite hillarious that people will demand retribution and justice for terrorists while treating them the same way they would treat you.

Honestly, as far as I understand the terrorists would have treated you better, as you'd be dead now, instead of being tortured, daily for years.

Your argument is not only illogical, it's immoral & hypocritical.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower
You should be thankful that there are men out there that can do what needs to be done when you don't have the heart or stomach (or good sense) to do it yourself. Some people deserve to die.

ATS Thread - Why is revenge bad?
So .. why is revenge bad? Isn't it natural?
In reference to 9/11 and justice or revenge .... I think the two go hand in hand. I say ... both.

reply to post by tothetenthpower
And that just "mind your own business" attitude is why Hitler was allowed to slaughter so many people before we finally stepped up and stopped him.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

You should be thankful that there are men out there that can do what needs to be done when you don't have the heart or stomach (or good sense) to do it yourself. Some people deserve to die.

And it is on you to be Judge, jury, and executioner I suppose? because you have the sense that we somehow lack?

reply to post by abe froman


Gee, now you sound like Jack Nicklson from a few good men.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

You should be thankful that there are men out there that can do what needs to be done when you don't have the heart or stomach (or good sense) to do it yourself. Some people deserve to die.

Again, illogical argument.

You do not address my points, you simply continue to berrate me with Ad Hominem attacks in attempt to make your point. Please provide debate material or concede the argument.

I'm not in the position to determine anybody's "right" to live, and neither are you. The fact that you think you have the moral high ground to determine whether or not somebody should live or die ( without even having proof of their crimes as it stands in this case) only shows how disconnected you are logically from the issue.

What you are arguing is an emotional response, that makes no sense in the real world and will accomplish nothing, other than to satisfy your emotional need to get "revenge" from people you can't even provide prove are guilty.

You were just told they were, after they were tortured for over a year.

So yeah, again, nice try, but until you actually want to debate the issue and have a discussion, as opposed to just throwing around emotional hyperbole, then please feel free to not continue this discussion. It's one sided anyway.
~Tenth

reply to post by miniatus
If you defend your enemy and not your ally, you definitly lack some sense. If you uplift someone who wants to destroy you and cast aspersions at someone who wants to defend you, your morals are self destructive. and thats insanity.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Only because you can't handle the truth.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by miniatus

 

If you defend your enemy and not your ally, you definitly lack some sense. If you uplift someone who wants to destroy you and cast aspersions at someone who wants to defend you, your morals are self destructive. and thats insanity.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about at this point.. I don't defend my enemy and not my ally .. I defend the justice process and think it's absolutely critical to do so .. there are situations in this world where innocent people do get put to death.. I'm not suggesting these guys are innocent.. but that's why we have a criminal process.. The process you suggest is wreckless, immoral and a bit ignorant.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
No, morality is not just for peacetime and you make yourself out to be JUST like those terrorists with that mind set.

Stop occupying their nations, remove yourselve from their affairs. Mind your own damn business and perhaps people would not have the urge to harm you.

While I agree with you that soft power is very important, it is worth bearing in mind that 9/11 was before the Iraqi and Afghanistan invasions by the US and UK.

Hence, to imply that if we removed ourselves from Iraqi and Afghanistan then radical Muslims would leave us alone is somewhat flawed.

reply to post by tothetenthpower
You keep bringing up morality when I keep telling you I am not trying to claim any moral ground. I am a combat veteren. I have put my life on the line so that folks have the freedom to sit home and question my morals and I have had to at times put aside my morals so that you can smugly defend yours.

Proof would be required before either could be delivered. Self-proclamation doesn't come close to counting as proof. There are too many variables left open for err in judgement.

Such as...
1) How do we know they aren't just scapegoats?
2) How do we know the confession wasn't purely "pleasing" rhetoric to stop extensive torture?

And so on. There are too many unknowns for any semblance of true justice in regards to 9/11. Anyone who believes otherwise draws too highly on blind faith IMO.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
No, morality is not just for peacetime and you make yourself out to be JUST like those terrorists with that mind set.

Stop occupying their nations, remove yourselve from their affairs. Mind your own damn business and perhaps people would not have the urge to harm you.

While I agree with you that soft power is very important, it is worth bearing in mind that 9/11 was before the Iraqi and Afghanistan invasions by the US and UK.

Hence, to imply that if we removed ourselves from Iraqi and Afghanistan then radical Muslims would leave us alone is somewhat flawed.

Not really, 9/11 if you believe the official story, was the direct result of American intervention in a myriad of military agression dating back from the 70's. Iran, Iraq, and a bunch of other engagements that occured in those times, where the US was putting it's not where it did not belong.

Radical Muslims have always claimed America's intervention into their affairs as the reasoning for the on going proxy war against it.

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan post 9/11 only compounded the problem.

~Tenth

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

You keep bringing up morality when I keep telling you I am not trying to claim any moral ground. I am a combat veteren. I have put my life on the line so that folks have the freedom to sit home and question my morals and I have had to at times put aside my morals so that you can smugly defend yours.

You never defended my rights Sir. You defended the rights of Oligarchs to continue owning you, and the country you live in. You believing that you fought for something other than that is your perogative, but it doesn't make it true.

None of the wars that you fought in ( unless you are a WWII vet) were necessary for my freedoms or anybody else's to be kept in tact. Nobody attacked my country, put boots on the ground rounded up citizens.

So please spare me the " I'm a soldier I know what it is to defend my country" argument, cause that one doesn't hold weight in this either.

I keep bringing up morality because it applies in this case, just because you don't seem to have any, or don't want to base your opinion on it, doesn't make it irrelevant to the conversation.

Then again, you are a military person, how do you go about explaining to somebody that killing is bad, when they were conditioned to think it was good?

~Tenth

its all a crock, the trouble with america is they live by the sword, they have no clue about morality, they are like the school bully who gets angry when people stick up for themselves, besides all of that , talk about the oldest pschological trick in the book, now it has everyone believing that these men did it all, beheading, 911, they are probably guilty of ejaculating on monica lewinsky, what else can we pin on them to enrage the american public enough to forget about who realy carried out 911, or the murders of innocent middle eastern families by the hundreds, children, women, fathers, mothers, daughters, sons and so on. america wouldnt know or understand justice if it kicked them up the arse and stuck a cream pie in their face, vengance and blood is all america understands

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Not really, 9/11 if you believe the official story, was the direct result of American intervention in a myriad of military agression dating back from the 70's. Iran, Iraq, and a bunch of other engagements that occured in those times, where the US was putting it's not where it did not belong.

What myriad of US aggression against the Islamic world dating back to the 70s?

The only difference between justice and revenge is that one term refers to a person being the victim of an action while the other refers to someone watching. Either way, both cases should result in balance. So to answer your question, I want justice while the direct victims of this event want revenge.

reply to post by ollncasino


Iranian Revolution

Backed by the CIA; Creation of Al-Queda and OBL as CIA asset.

The Gulph War;

Dessert Storm

Desert Fox

Those are the known conflicts, who knows the extent of clandestine operatons.

~Tenth