911 Terrorists on trial. Do you want Justice or Revenge?

I want to share something, as it came to mind and I can't think of a more relevent thread. A lot of talk here about what is revenge and waterboarding people like K.S.M. Well, there is a book I read a few years back. It's a long one and for those looking for 007 moments of thrills and intrigue, it's a pretty boring book. However, for those interested in how the Terrorist Networks in Europe operated in the mid-late 90's and the Afghan training camps in the late 90's, I've not heard of a better book for information.

Inside the Jihad: My Life with Al Qaeda, a Spy's story

Now the first thing one will note is that this guy turned to save his own butt when things went bad for him in Belgium. Through family, he began working with the system supporting the fight against France in Algeria. When the authorities crashed his party by taking down the safe house is and his group called home, he flipped and went to Afghanistan to enter the camps on behalf of the French DGSE. Their version of the CIA, more or less. So, staying true to my own values, I'll say on a character level, he's pretty much a scumbag.

However, he's a scumbag with very valuable insight and perspective to share by going into and completing the training pipeline through the AQ camps before 9/11.

It's more than simply how they learned to shoot, user mortars and that sort of thing. What else would they be doing in such a place? lol... What is interesting is the great deal of personal attention he gives to the little details and mindsets. The whole ideology and why it works and doesn't work..or did at that time, anyway.

More important to THIS thread though, is the interrogation training he personally witnessed and which I've read about in other articles in some detail. The ones who get more than a few pointers and a vest to wear to work that day, apparently get training in that specific area which make the SEAL SERE training look weak and sad. We don't LITERALLY torture our people to train them. By this book's accounts and how it dovetails with others, they did then and probably still do now.


So... I ask anyone who complains about waterboarding a man like KSM. Not EVERYONE we capture, but the top command level like him. What else CAN we do in a time of war, when people are dying...and the man we face for questioning already has training up to and well beyond the legal limits we can ever take it? Perhaps simulating the act of going all the way......which is what broke that twit. Maybe lives were saved for it. If not our own, then he was quite a menace to difference factions of his OWN people.

(Excuse typos...I'm too bleary eyed between classes tonight to check every letter..just this once.)

reply to post by abe froman

We are at war with these people,they should be shot on sight.USA finally got it right with the execution and disposal of bin laden.There is nothing to gain by putting these people on trial,hunt them down and kill them.
This doctrine is unsettling to most westerners but I'm afraid we must adopt it as do our enemy.The enemy should note that the west has in the not so distant past fought wars on an industrial scale for many many years,our spirit will not be broken,they will.

reply to post by tothetenthpower
Can a civilized society exsist with an uncivilized society. Morality, does anyone really know what that is? How many times has any of us walked by a person needing help? We just keep walking and try not to look so we dont have to feel the guilt. Was that moral? We ar all quilty of this. And remember lieing is not moral. But then again the truth can be twisted to fit our own means.Justice is to be based on truth. If found quilty dont you get your revenge in some funny little way. They do kinda go hand in hand in a freakish little way. Does any of us have the real facts in this case or what we are fed?

"911 Terrorists on trial. Do you want Justice or Revenge?"


Really!?!?!?

You mean they finally put Cheany,Bush on trial??!!

Amazing!

OK,,I saw the title,and I havent read anyone elses posts yet.
Wanted to reply first.

So,what do I want?
Justice or Revenge?

Neither,I'd be happy getting the truth!

~Cheers~

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



I am wanting to reply to this post, but there is some fact checking I want to do first. I am making this reply solely so it is easier to find later. It will most likely be tomorrow when I reply.

I have a source for first hand information on some of the points brought up, if my recollection is correct it will be relevant to your post. But it has been some time and I want to be certain on one very particular point before I speak. Never a good thing to speak without absolute certainty.

Inshallah I will reply on this sometimes tomorrow. I hope you do not mind discourse with me.

(Also, if it is relevant, I may want to send you a large file, so that you can confirm for yourself my words. You may want to give light thought on how we might do that.) if I find this is not relevant, then I will post in the thread saying so.

Al-Qaeda underwear bomber 'was US double agent'

www.bbc.co.uk...

ok
now,
justice or revenge?

Originally posted by councilglasses
reply to post by abe froman

 

We are at war with these people,they should be shot on sight.USA finally got it right with the execution and disposal of bin laden.There is nothing to gain by putting these people on trial,hunt them down and kill them.
This doctrine is unsettling to most westerners but I'm afraid we must adopt it as do our enemy.The enemy should note that the west has in the not so distant past fought wars on an industrial scale for many many years,our spirit will not be broken,they will.

You do realize that your argument is akin to saying that you love John Cena, and hate The Rock, right? You do realize that when they're not wrestling on TV, they're really friends, right? You do realize that EVERY war that America has fought in was sold to the public based on events manufactured by the US, right? Please don't be one of those unquestioning blind patriots who buys anything and everything that the government tries to sell you. It is that type of patriot that is most unpatriotic. Please, put down the bible for a moment and pick up the Constitution.

Wow, The majority of responses not having a clue that this whole thing is probably from a tortured confession, sure leads me to believe the trolls have really worked ATS over the years and have done a remarkable job. Its probabaly as much of a put on as the set up phony underwear bombers, the phony...we killed "the already dead Osama Bin Laden, and dumped him into the ocean with no proof what so ever just before President Obama;s rating's where tanking big time".
Do people remember just after 911 how supposedly the Bin Ladens where all safely flown home by the government not long after 911. President Bush Seniors meeting with Osama's brother....etc.
This definetely doesn't seem like the old ATS crowd on here. Nobody is even questioning this dog and pony show after all of the lies, event after event.
Lets just keep on believing all of the propaganda, Oh my, I guess the government really didn't have anything to do with 911 after all....It really is this dark skinned fella...I feel much safer knowing that the system is getting another boogie man, and keeping us all safe....LOL..
But, That's just my take

Originally posted by Jameela
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I have a source for first hand information on some of the points brought up, if my recollection is correct it will be relevant to your post. But it has been some time and I want to be certain on one very particular point before I speak. Never a good thing to speak without absolute certainty.

Inshallah I will reply on this sometimes tomorrow. I hope you do not mind discourse with me.

edit on 8-5-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

Well, I look forward to what you may have to add. As for any concern that I mind your input, not at all. I've read the posts on the same threads I'm on and we don't agree on everything, but we don't disagree on anything critical either. It goes without saying that you're Muslim, I'm not and so cultural differences exist, (major ones...lol) but that's no reason not to be friendly, eh?

Peace has to start somewhere between the cultures. Why not start with normal folks like us?

reply to post by abe froman


Personally, I want Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.


Ill take a little justice, with a splash of revenge...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Peace has to start somewhere between the cultures. Why not start with normal folks like us?

LOL normal is one adjective that has not been used to describe me

reply to post by abe froman


personally i would look at how they deal with things and then deal with them according to there terms. they seam to like the beheading's and getting placed in time square to be stoned to death. as far as i know. so i feel it should be to there standers and beliefs. maybe place them in nyc let everybody toss stones at them then behead the guy i know its discussing. but its there way right? then i would call it some what justice. anything other. it will be like putting somebody on house arrest that never leaves the house. its not going to be a big deal to them. you need to make it a big deal and making sure there death or punishment according to there religion sets there soul or whatever on fire for ever. and make them extremist really think if they want to do this or not knowing what kinda of death or punishment awates for them if they get caught. maybe then it will put a 2nd thought i know it would tick off alot of them but you know what they can just join this dude in his death..

I personally believe those involved with organizing the 9/11 attacks should get fair trial justice. Then they should be thrown in American prisons with no special protection whatsoever.

That's what I call justice.

reply to post by St0mP121


It would be disgusting, yes; these guys are completely innocent.

Instead of violent fantasising try focusing your mind on getting information for yourself instead of relying on a drip-feed from Fox/CNN

You coud kill these patsy's 100 times over, what are you going to gain? Are the twin towers going to resprout? Are those who were killed going to come back to us? No.

New title for thread:

Fake 911 terrorist on trial

Shoulda been taken out with a drone -- would have saved a lot of wasted tax-payer dollars.

reply to post by mookid


What could we gain? Maybe the next set of "patsys" will think twice before commiting the next heinous crime. Those of you claiming these men are innocent are blind. I will gladly contribute to a fund for anyone who wants to renounce their citezenship and move to Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan, or Syria.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by mookid

 

What could we gain? Maybe the next set of "patsys" will think twice before commiting the next heinous crime. Those of you claiming these men are innocent are blind. I will gladly contribute to a fund for anyone who wants to renounce their citezenship and move to Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan, or Syria.

Iran and Syria LOL, you're brainwashed beyond belief.

You just listed the countries the MSM propaganda machine have consistently promoted as next on 'the agenda'. And you've bought this programming so much that you brought those countries up- you could have listed any other dictatorship country but it just so happened that the two other countries listed were Iran and Syria!

Your post is priceless!!!!!!

So are you taking me up on the offer? I'm not paying for you to move to Kuwait or Dubai where it's nice. I don't get my news from the MSM, I'm a veteran that has actually been to these places. I'll go in half if you want to go to Saudi Arabia. I seriously doubt we will even go in to Syria they are on the verge of major civil war, I think YOU are the one brainwashed by the MSM. Turn off your TV.

Originally posted by abe froman
So are you taking me up on the offer? I'm not paying for you to move to Kuwait or Dubai where it's nice. I don't get my news from the MSM, I'm a veteran that has actually been to these places. I'll go in half if you want to go to Saudi Arabia. I seriously doubt we will even go in to Syria they are on the verge of major civil war, I think YOU are the one brainwashed by the MSM. Turn off your TV.

edit on 11-5-2012 by abe froman because: Allaho Akbar

You listed bad countries to move to- and the countries you listed just happened to be the ones listed in the PNAC's September 200 document Rebuilding America's Defenses, Iraq, Afghan, Syria and Iran!

The countries you listed where the countries on America's foreign policy hitlist and have been in the MSM.

The irony is not lost on me, maybe others can't see it but I found it rather strange you'd list the countries on the news right now! Iran, Syria...

How about Nigeria, China? There are hundreds of dictatorship countries, and you listed Iraq, Afghan, Syria and Iran. So clearly, whether you like it or not, the MSM brainwashing has got to you on a subconscious level. Otherwise you would have not listed those 4 specific countries as examples of bad countries to move to!