Openly homosexual man denied right to speak at brothers highschool graduation

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

I love your sentiments as it's certainly well meaning and anything but mean spirited toward the Church but it's also just not realistic. I'm not a Catholic but my entire family up my Mother's side is and they are devout, practicing 'never miss a day to attend' type for the most part.

It's from that background I say this isn't an issue the Church can or EVER will bend on. It can't and it just isn't that sort of thing, As difficult as the context is for someone who holds no deep deep religious belief of their own, this is a Salvation issue to the Catholic Believer. That means it's an issue which could bring into question the future of their eternal Soul. It's no small thing and really can't be overestimated for the importance it represents to a practicing Catholic.

No one has to agree with The Church, but it's important to at least see it from there side -long enough- to gain the insight as to whether there is ANY room for negotiation, under ANY circumstances. On this issue? I have to say no..and 1,000 years won't change that one bit. The Book and where it came from won't have changed so neither will the Church. In some ways..it's even reassuring that at least ONE institution has codes and morals which don't shift to the day's breeze.

I respectfully disagree. Most of the scripture against homosexuality is in the book of Leviticus. We all know by now all the other ridiculous restrictions in Leviticus that the Church (and everyone else) ignores. Jesus himself never condemned homosexuality.

All it would take for the Church to save face on this is to say that in reviewing the Leviticus scripture, they have found that these were ancient Jewish laws that Christians are not bound to. And since Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality, neither should the Church. Simple.

All it would take for the Church to save face on this is to say that in reviewing the Leviticus scripture, they have found that these were ancient Jewish laws that Christians are not bound to. And since Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality, neither should the Church. Simple.

Not true, Matthew 19:4:

And He (Jesus) answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’ So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”



Also there is no reason for the church to save face.

Originally posted by joyride0187

All it would take for the Church to save face on this is to say that in reviewing the Leviticus scripture, they have found that these were ancient Jewish laws that Christians are not bound to. And since Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality, neither should the Church. Simple.

Jesus confirmed that those yoked together in marriage should be “male and female.”—Matthew 19:4.

edit on 27-4-2012 by joyride0187 because: (no reason given)

That particular scripture was condemning divorce, not homosexuality. "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder."

reply to post by kaylaluv

I respectfully disagree. Most of the scripture against homosexuality is in the book of Leviticus. We all know by now all the other ridiculous restrictions in Leviticus that the Church (and everyone else) ignores. Jesus himself never condemned homosexuality.

All it would take for the Church to save face on this is to say that in reviewing the Leviticus scripture, they have found that these were ancient Jewish laws that Christians are not bound to. And since Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality, neither should the Church. Simple.

Fair enough and I'm not even sure how much we disagree here on the core concept. I'm just looking beyond the issue of whether a gay man ought to speak at a graduation and focusing strictly on the fact it's a Catholic one.

I'd say you're right in at least this much I'll agree with...and disagreement is likewise with respect, but what you or I think and believe of Biblical teachings and Scripture doesn't make any difference and it never will. We're lay people and beyond that, we're 100% "Them" to the Church's "Us". They see Homosexuality as sufficiently covered in the Vatican's doctrine and interpretation of Scripture.. Within the Church, that is literally and without pun, the Word of God. Soo... debating the right or wrong of the issue just doesn't change much. The Church has no concern about our little opinions.. lol

The only question I still see here is this....and his being Gay is really secondary. Does the Church have the right to decline speakers from their private, Catholic school for whatever reason might cross their minds? Well, under our 1st Amendment and all....Yes, they absolutely do have that right and Government has absolutely no business even voicing an opinion on the matter. We can voice an opinion, of course, but the Church doesn't care.

Originally posted by BiggerPicture

Originally posted by Theprimevoyager
This man is a former student/graduate of the this Catholic academy

he was not allowed to speak due to his facebook containing a picture of him and his significant other and being openly homosexual as well. This not only disgusts me but is a direct assault on this man's civil rights.

www.rbslaw.com...

"Federal Court Finds Sexual Orientation Discrimination Unlawful"

Does not apply in this case.........

If you want to cite the law..........know the law

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Fair enough and I'm not even sure how much we disagree here on the core concept. I'm just looking beyond the issue of whether a gay man ought to speak at a graduation and focusing strictly on the fact it's a Catholic one.

I'd say you're right in at least this much I'll agree with...and disagreement is likewise with respect, but what you or I think and believe of Biblical teachings and Scripture doesn't make any difference and it never will. We're lay people and beyond that, we're 100% "Them" to the Church's "Us". They see Homosexuality as sufficiently covered in the Vatican's doctrine and interpretation of Scripture.. Within the Church, that is literally and without pun, the Word of God. Soo... debating the right or wrong of the issue just doesn't change much. The Church has no concern about our little opinions.. lol

The only question I still see here is this....and his being Gay is really secondary. Does the Church have the right to decline speakers from their private, Catholic school for whatever reason might cross their minds? Well, under our 1st Amendment and all....Yes, they absolutely do have that right and Government has absolutely no business even voicing an opinion on the matter. We can voice an opinion, of course, but the Church doesn't care.

I agree, the Church has every right to decline speakers from their private school function. And, you're right, the Church doesn't care one whit what I say, as I am not a member - never have been. What the Church MAY care about is if they start to lose 90 percent of their congregation, especially as the old-school members start to die off and the new, more tolerant generation starts to protest the homophobic views.

I guess I am a little jaded of organized religion in general, but I have a feeling that the Vatican would "re-evaluate" their interpretation of the Word of God, if it meant saving the Church from oblivion. I realize we are far away from that at this point, but maybe the generation after next will demand changes, and the Church will be forced to listen - or disappear.

Originally posted by Theprimevoyager
Yes, lets bring up extreme hypothetical scenarios to justify the church's actions. It is my opinion that his civil rights are being violated. OPINION. Opinions are neither right nor wrong and extremely subjective.

However, you are stating an opinion related to the legality of their actions. That's what the Civil Rights laws are about. LEGAL or ILLEGAL "discrimination." Others are simply pointing out that from a LEGAL standpoint (which is your assertion) his civil rights are NOT being violated. Sure you can have any opinion you want--even if it's wrong. But don't pretend just because you label your statement an opinion that it gains some sort of validity.

That they decided not to allow him to speak is their choice and theirs alone - Private organizations have that right.

Whether that choice be 'Right' or 'Wrong' is up to the individual to come to terms with.

Me?
I'd herald that they Have That Choice ... despite the decision contrasting with my own personal beliefs - All Being Equal ... and such.

Why this type shyte is notable or worthy press release is beyond me. ??

Can't folks just realize that every 'perceived harm' doesn't necessarily equal an actual 'Foul'?

Apparently not ....as there seem a multitude of 'molehills' being made into 'mountains' here of late. :shk:

.... both in the mainstream media as well as here on the boards.

It all makes not a tinker's damn bit of sense ... yet it continues, nonetheless

The ironies abound...

While I agree that there is no civil rights issues the hypocrisy coming from the church is deafening.

What ever happened to -
I am my brothers keeper?
Turn the other cheek?
Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself?
Don't judge unless ye be judged?
We are all Gods Children?

It reminds me of Animal Farm...

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

I ind it amazing that religion does not understand the notion that they are partially responsible for the hatred we see now on certain topics.

They will scream and throw a fit when a Christian pastor is to be put to death in Iran, arguing he should be allowed to worship without interference... and then we have this.....

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing religion outlawed. It causes more harm than good.

People need to realize that its not a religious group that does good deeds. Its the people who do good deeds... The Church likes to take the credit and ignore the blame.

Originally posted by BiggerPicture

Originally posted by Theprimevoyager
This man is a former student/graduate of the this Catholic academy

he was not allowed to speak due to his facebook containing a picture of him and his significant other and being openly homosexual as well. This not only disgusts me but is a direct assault on this man's civil rights.

www.rbslaw.com...

"Federal Court Finds Sexual Orientation Discrimination Unlawful"

an equal protection claim can only be brought against a government agency