Four Tiered Class System Of Feudal Japan

One of my favourite books is Shogun by James Clavell. Its a fantastic book and is also so thick and brick-like the book can also be used as a weapon if the need arises Ever since I read it a few year's ago I have been of the opinion that the Samuria was the highest evolution of man.The Samuria beats out the Spartan by a nose.

The Samurai valued honour above all else. It was beneath the Samuria to concern himself with things such as money. A Samurai would commit seppuku if he was dishonoured. He would sooner die than live with the shame of being dishonoured.

The Four-Tiered Class System of Feudal Japan is the greatest and most logical 'class structure' that the world has ever seen.

1 --At the top of the 'class structure' were the Samurai Warrior Class. The Samuria were about 10% of the population and they comanded respect.The Samurai answered only to their leader the Diamyo. The Diaymo was the leader of a people and controlled a region.The Diaymo only answered to the Shogun. The Shogun was the most powerful Diaymo.The Shogun answered to the Emperor technically but an Emperor was often merely a figurehead. The real power lay with the Shogun. But like I said,the Samurai Class were the top social group.

2 --Just below the Samurai Class on the social ladder were the Peasants and the Farmers. Yes,thats right. Peasants were the second most important people in Feudal Japan.The peasant sat above the Artisan and the Merchant because they produced the thing that was of the most value.Food.This is logical.We all need food.The Peasant is what holds everything together.They are much more important than the Artisan and the Merchant.

3 --Third on the list was the Artisan.The Artisan was important. They made boats,weapons,clothing and they were the highly skilled. But they were not as important as the Peasant. We all need food. Without food,the rest is impossible.The Artisan lived in their own section of cities.

4 --Last on the list is the parasitic Merchant Class. These people produce nothing of real value. These parasites were at the very bottom of society. They were seen for what they were. They produced nothing of value but instead,they exploited the other classes.These people like to call themselves 'Job Creators' today. What an insulting joke that is. In Feudal Japan the Merchant Class were ostracized.They had to live in their own part of a city and the higher classes were forbidden to mix with these parasites except for business related matter's.So all our Bankers and Corporatists would be at the bottom of society in Feudal Japan.very logical.

The only thing the Japanese saw as lower than a parasitic Banker or Corporatist were undesirables like Actors,Bards, Butchers,Grave Diggers,Criminals and Prostitutes.

So our 'job creators'(job destroyer's) would be right at the bottom. I think we should look at this system for Western Society. If a more sensible Social Structure exists I would like to hear it.
asianhistory.about.com...

You can buy Clavells book Shogun online or order it in if you can find a bookstore. All of Clavells books deal with issues of society when you think about them. King Rat is another stand out from Clavell.

And just imagine all those bankers,corpratists right down the bottom of society where they should be. It makes total sense. The 'Four Teired Class System' needs to make a comeback.

Thats an interesting contrast with the west's class structure.
Feudal Japan's lowest class was obviously occupied by most of
the psycopaths and sociopaths both criminal and otherwise.
Where as in the west, these people have managed to put
themselves in the top position.

So, if one were to compare East and West cultural differences,
one would only need to look to see where the psychopaths ended up.

reply to post by CAPT PROTON


I agree. Another of Clavells books is Noble House. It is about the American and European Traders that moved into Hong Kong. Its very good too. Its about th 'opium wars' and stuff. It explains how many of these 'merchants' were pretty much pirates. And these pirates were encouraged by governments such as England. Many of these pirates gained power in society due to the wealth they stole.Many took positions in governmnet

Its very interesting when you see the rise of England is linked heavily to pirates.They would attack the Spanish and Portuguese 'gold ships' amongst other things. The Queen encouraged them to do it too. England's rise to super-power was linked heavily to criminal pirates

The Spanish and Portuguese had so much power once that they drew a line down the globe and took half each. They might still be in control if not for English pirates

I think a "more sensible social structure" does exist. No social structure.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

-The Declaration of Independence

Equality is the soul of liberty; there is, in fact, no liberty without it.

-Frances Wright


People have developed class systems for centuries and when the revolution was fought here in the states, one of the ideas in mind was to break free from such a system that had plagued mankind for thousands of years. But much like everywhere else, the class system in American too developed just like the rest of the world because people are incompetent and unaccepting of having the same as their neighbor, or when they have more or less, they are pushed to admonish such differences and accept the other as an outcast.

It is one of the alluring traits of socialism in the fact that there become only two classes to deal with - the ruling class and the rest. In an attempt to create a classless system, they too failed by simply eliminating MOST of the class structures and combining them into the two.

What is so wrong with a classless society? Why is it so hard for humanity to embrace such a system?

Due to my standing in society when it comes to wealth, I would be placed in the American lower-middle class. But I associate with the lower class and I never think of them as such. The upper class too are my friends and I find it disheartening to find that they look down upon people so and for what - because others don't have the materials amounts that they and their families possess?

I'll admit, the Japanese Feudal system was more appealing as it focused on character rather than riches and materialism as the class systems of the world now do today. But it was still a system of degradation and inequality even if it wasn't so much as it was today. The Samurai are to be the most respected warriors and tribesmen in history but they never, EVER, demanded respect - the earned it through their actions, actions which in most cases could never be questioned for motive or reasoning. People tell me that I should respect the troops more today because they "defend out country and our freedoms". But much in the same scenario - respect is earned, not demanded.



I guess my point is - no social class is a good one. People need to evolve away from the need to classify themselves according to wealth and hold themselves in higher regard due to individual differences - especially in the United States, a country that is supposed to be founded on individualism and individual freedoms. The class system killed the American Dream just as it killed ever other hope for the lower classes throughout history and there is no good that will ever come from classifying people as anything other than what they simply are.

People.

Plain and simple.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Chomsky fan?

I agree pretty much. I am just trying to get people to see that the 'job creators' are not that at all.If anything they should be the bottom rung.

I like 'libertarian socialism' (anarchy) but I have moved closer to 'National Socialism' as a realistic option. I am for autarky. I would like to see a classless society myself to be honest but I just cant see it working. I also think that some people are indeed of more value to society and they should be treated as such.But the difference between the top and bottom cant be so wide.I like Hitlers National Socialism.(Im no nazi) and I see it as a realistic possibility. I think the common good should be paramount.

But I cant help but admire the Samurai and the Spartan. I think those guys had every right to be at the top. I didnt say they demanded respect,I said they commanded it.And they did.They commanded respect with their action's.They were the most important class.

Todays soldier is a merc.They fight for the Banker,not for their country.

But Id settle for Anarchy over what we have today in a blink

Someone agrees with you about the merchants.

reply to post by petrus4


If I didnt know any better I would think you are trying to liken me to some weirdo.

Do you have anything to add? At all?

And Im all for a 'grandmother revolution.

And all great men have moustaches

The weirdo makes some good points.

Do you have any?

Edit-sorry if that soundedharsh,you may have noticed Im a little hot headed and defensive
Hope you are well petrus.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by petrus4

 

If I didnt know any better I would think you are trying to liken me to some weirdo.

Patch's answer would probably be, that he's only weird to the extent that love has become weird in people's minds.

Do you have anything to add? At all?

I believe that both Capitalism, which Patch mentions...and Communism, which was a mockery of what Patch advocates...were both devised by the Illuminati in order to fool people. When Patch talks about a move to a more loving world; my own reading has led me to believe that there are about 5 people out of every 100 who aren't capable of love at all...it simply isn't there...and we've allowed those people to rule the world.

That's why the world is the way it is. They wanted to rule, and we've let them; and they don't want to rule because they want to take care of everyone. They want to rule in order to benefit themselves.

Hope you are well petrus.

I'm fine. I hope you are well also.

reply to post by petrus4

were both devised by the Illuminati in order to fool people.

Thats a little 'out there' for me. But you are on the right track. I dont use the word 'illuminati'.(oligarchy sounds better dont you think?)

But you are right,communism is a scam. The Communist Manifesto an arrogant and aggresive appeal to the weak and desperate.Its just like the book Winston is reading in 1984. And when you think communism think Banker controlled State/National Bank. Its a scam.

And I agree,those in control do not know love. They love profit maybe,and themselves.Thats it.

Great post! I am actually reading Shogun at the moment it is a brilliant book so far, the way it is written is so inspiring, I can not wait to finish it.
The four tiered class system they had makes so much sense, we have basically got it totally upside down here in the west, and well the whole world now..

reply to post by TetsuoIronMan


Cool,I was so sad when I finished it. I dont read that fast so I spent many a night with that book.

When you finish you might like the mini-series they made to. Its not great but worth a watch if you have read the book.

King Rat is really good too. Its about the Changi pow camp that the Japanese ran. I liked it just as much.

reply to post by Germanicus


Shogun was a great novel and certainly exposed me to pre 1500 Japan which had a culture and society completely different from western society. Rarely can something be Barbaric/Beautiful/Balanced all at once.

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Shogun was a great novel and certainly exposed me to pre 1500 Japan which had a culture and society completely different from western society. Rarely can something be Barbaric/Beautiful/Balanced all at once.

edit on 26-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

You might remember the fithy Barbarian was Blackthorne. The Japanese were not "barbaric" in any way. English people were gross,thats why got the plague.

The Japanese are way ahead of us,always have been.
But yeah,Im glad to hear you enjoyed it. Its awesome hey.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Shogun was a great novel and certainly exposed me to pre 1500 Japan which had a culture and society completely different from western society. Rarely can something be Barbaric/Beautiful/Balanced all at once.

edit on 26-4-2012 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

You might remember the fithy Barbarian was Blackthorne. The Japanese were not "barbaric" in any way. English people were gross,thats why got the plague.

The Japanese are way ahead of us,always have been.
But yeah,Im glad to hear you enjoyed it. Its awesome hey.

Actually it depends on your definition of barbaric - cutting off a person's head off in a drop of a dime for no other reason other than perceived insult couldn't be considered civilized could it? Boiling people feet first in oil also comes to mind. Granted I didn't say their society was as a whole barbaric, but I think you missed the point of my original comment.

Read this over 12 years ago btw so exact detail might be iffy.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


I see what you mean. The oil thing was pretty cruel.

I agree with chopping people heads of though. Its about honour. You shouldnt let people insult you. If they knew you would cut their heads of if they did,people would be more polite.

And I was just thinking about how filthy the English were. The Japanese also refer to Blackthorne as the 'barbarian' because he smells and has bad hygiene.

But I get what you are saying.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

I see what you mean. The oil thing was pretty cruel.

I agree with chopping people heads of though. Its about honour. You shouldnt let people insult you. If they knew you would cut their heads of if they did,people would be more polite.

And I was just thinking about how filthy the English were. The Japanese also refer to Blackthorne as the 'barbarian' because he smells and has bad hygiene.

But I get what you are saying.

Yeah the book is as much about anthropology and culture shock as it is on Feudal Japan. The contrast between the westerners (I thought Blackthorne was Dutch or something) and the Japanese to the point of almost being alien yet finding common ground through their apparent humanness is quite the achievement on the author's part. great book, and I agree with the honor thing; it's it a different society with different etiquette and different rules. Rather than the "government" being authoritarian, the people themselves conduct themselves in a kind of authoritarian way which worked for their given culture.

If you are into RPG's (video games or D & D) the term Lawful Neutral alignment would fit perfectly.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


I used to play RTS games.

The Total War franchise is my favourite.I can win Campaign on the hardest setting which pretty much makes me a genius (: Any one of them.

Toranaga's rise to the Shogunate is seen through the eyes of the English sailor “John Blackthorne

en.wikipedia.org...

Its a Dutch crew and ship. But Blackthorne a filthy barbarian Englishman.

reply to post by Germanicus


Ahh that's right, I knew dutch was in there somewhere lol. Like I said it's been a few years.